New Injectors vs. JHM Reflowed Injectors

A6 All/ S6 All
#1

I’m weighing the overall benefits to either purchasing new or waiting the 4-5 weeks for JHM reflowed injectors (and 1-2 weeks for shipping) given the mileage on my Audi S6. Currently at around 90,500 miles and in 5-7 weeks it’ll probably increase by 1500-2000. Knowing that injectors are one of the main causes for misfires, they should be replaced around 80K miles and I’m almost certain most of the current injectors are originals, would it hurt to delay replacing them 2K miles or so?

Factors to consider:

  • New set is around $900
  • JHM Reflowed $600
  • It’ll be around 93K miles before replacing if waiting for JHM
  • A carbon clean w/ intake spacers will be performed next week
  • Typical time frame for injectors failing

Any thoughts??

#2

Had a similar dilemna not to long ago.

I decided to go with FCP EURO and i bought new injectors coils and plugs due to their free replacement warranty.
i received my package in 3 days (i’m only 2yrs away from their warehouse in CT).

my thought process is that i’ll never have to buy those ever again for this car.

I still have my old injectors (well one got messed up in the removal process) and i have a lifetime warranty for when i need a new set.

the draw back is the flow may not be 100% albeit new and all but that’s what the warranty is for.

if you’re taking the manifold off in a few days that’s my suggestion.

#3

^^^agree. I did the same.

Also, I’d like to see proof (statistical) that says new injectors flow worse that refurbished ones (and from someone other than the company offering the refurb service). Also we’ve heard from people having refurbished injectors with missing tabs from brittle plastic. I don’t think it’s worth it.

#4

You make a good point and FCP Euro hasn’t failed me yet. Just bought a set from them since their lifetime warranty is incredible. :slight_smile:

#5

I just bought a set from rock auto at $84 a piece for OE Hitachi ($108 on FCP)

I also bought the injector removal tool ($70) and I figure I’ll get the stock ones that come out cleaned locally (I’m stuck in Canada, so shipping/exchange ect is a lot pricer for me) Locally they clean and refurbish them for $70 each.

I have no doubts that JHM does a great job at it, and I also don’t doubt that the new injectors may not all flow correctly.

#6

From experience here are a few things I feel you should really consider.

The JHM units hands down are the best way to go and not just for the money.

keep this in mind. NEW OEM injectors that came in our car obviously fail…this is why we even need to replace them. If you look along the Carfax route of 5.2 motors they all have injector issues. Some as few a 30k miles.

Now did those injectors go bad right at 30k miles or even 100k miles when its so bad you notice that there are issues… obviously not. The injectors start going bad but you only notice it once its so bad the car misfires or just runs terrible.

getting “NEW” oem injectors are not Audi new they are just the same platform of injector but not built to the same specs that Audi requires. Take some time and just search how there is a major difference between parts with the same platform and Audi or BMW or GM or Ford specific injectors built on that platform or even 02 sensors.

This idea of getting “new” injectors still has shown no consistency and even several batches of “new” injectors the rs4 guys got and tested have shown to flow all over the map.

With JHM your paying for injectors that have been serviced and flow matched. The injectors have already been broken in due to them being in service already. This alone is a big deal.

IMHO if you just want new injectors then buy the cheapest injector you can find. But if your goal is to make sure you have good injectors that flow the correct amount and are all balanced and tuned there is a clear choice. For me knowing what I’m getting is the most important thing.

When you see big hp motors that a blown or burnt down you will notice its always one cylinder with a melted piston and that is generally the cause of a downed injector. Now is the 5.2 making sooo much power that your going to see huge issues like that… no… But over the past year or so all the 5.2 cars I have looked at have all shown low compression on cylinders with low flowing injctors due to damage.

#7

You make great points, however in this case I’m more than satisfied purchasing all 10 new injectors under a lifetime warranty. Perhaps after 35-50K miles, I’ll have them sent into JHM to have them perfected. For the time being and given the urgency in having proper injectors, I’d say the OEM injectors would be more than sufficient.

#8

I guess my other concern is reusing rebuilt 11 year old injectors that have been heat cycled, ect. I’ll see about getting the brand new hitachi’s flow tested if the cost isn’t ridiculous.

#9

one plus to buying new injectors: you’ll get them faster :stuck_out_tongue:

I’ve been waiting on my JHM set for almost 2 months :frowning: i’m guessing the amount of cores they have going back and forth is pretty low and makes it difficult for them to maintain a large stock to readily ship out.

#10

I’ve gone through about 14 new, used and refurbished injectors trying to tame misfires in the past. Bought em from ebay, rockauto and FCP. Two things I’ve learned;

  1. There’s three different OE brands that work in this car - not all of them flow the same, even among the same part number. The variance is +/-20% and this is within spec for a new injector. Straight from the factory, they vary by as much as 20%.

  2. No one flow matches and cleans these injectors in the US at operating pressure other than JHM - GDI injectors are NOT the same as FSI injectors; they’re closer to diesel injectors honestly. Flow matching at an FSI operating pressure is literally useless.

So, $600 for a set of injectors that are operating within +/-5% or $900+ for a set that varies by 20%? It’s not much of a choice.

As far as injectors “failing” because they’re not new; Injectors don’t generally fail per se. They get clogged and the seals get old. In the last 20something years of turning a wrench I’ve seen no more than a couple “fail” because the solenoid seized…

#11

now that’s good info.

we’ll see what the local diesel shop says about what level they test at. I’ll have a set of ten to send in to be reconditioned by JHM if required.

#12

I’m thinking that’s what i’ll do with my old set when the time comes. I’m still having a tough time wrapping my head around the brand new injectors not performing well.

#13

[quote=“GRS6,post:12,topic:10252”]
It’s not that they don’t perform, it’s that they vary in flow rates relative to each other… Since A/FR is read as a sum of airflow vs. oxygen out across all cylinders this could lead to a slightly lean or slightly rich on individual cylinders.

#14

[quote=“compugeek5150,post:13,topic:10252”]

Aside from reflowing the injectors, which is the clear solution, is there anything else that could be done to counteract the problem? Such as revising the ECU (or computer) to read differently?

#15

FYI everybody, I just received this email from JHM

http://audirevolution.net/addons/albums/images/41330319.jpg

#16

Did you get any further explanation as to why?

#17

Probably not enough cores or interest.

#18

From what I understand. JHM built up cores after a year or so. And from all the damaged cores coming back they were not able to keep the program going.

Since the program is a core swap program you need to obviously have good cores to keep it going. So I don’t think interest was an issues. I know several people just on this site alone that have gone that route. And the few times I helped guys with their cars they said they were waiting on cores to come in to jhm. So that seems to be the biggest issues.

#19

How do they accumulate cores? I have 10 injectors I removed. Do they buy them? Happy to sell them on.

#20

I did the JHM cleaned/Flow matched injectors awhile back and all 10 injectors I got back were missing the little notch on the electrical plug that holds the plug on. Wasn’t impressed by that.