PES Supercharger - still a topic of discussion

B6/7 S4/RS4
#1

Pretty funny that

a) they’re still in business
b) the kits still generate discussion on forums

Someone on audizine just installed one and of course got lambasted. Let’s look at it.

http://www.audizine.com/forum/showthread.php/533703-SC-Installed

PES supercharger + piggies + catback = $10,000 new

That’s insane. Why bother when you hvae other options with far more upside and better tuning (JHM for example) for the same money.

What if it’s used though? What’s the market on a used PES supercharger…$4000? Maybe?

Buy it used, self install, piggies, good catback = $5500 and you’re running mid 12s @ 110-111.

That’s not terrible anymore. What was terrible was PES lying to everyone about the capabilities, and their poor design causing problems, and charging $8500 for the kit. That was nuts…but this guy isn’t so dumb I don’t think.

I sure don’t think the secret is to run meth and a tiny pulley and overspin it like twitS4estate suggested in the thread…and I also think he will be struggling with the belt issues that have plagued the kits that use the stock belt, but from 30,000 feet, I reckon his car will be pretty quick for pretty cheap.

What do you guys think?

#2

He says he paid $1500, and he has a spare motor…lol like that should be pointed out as some kind of insurance.

I just think it’s a risk because of tuning…who will tune it successfully? I personally would not waste the $1500 or probably 2000-2500 after he get it’s tuned.

I really think with headers and a LWFW/clutch, lw rear rotors and wheels and superb DA a JHM bolt on car could go low 12.6s. I know that to be there isn’t cheap and this OP is going from a price point perspective I think, but it beats the hassle of running successfully tuned PES setup.

Shit VWRCER has headers and a full 3" plus other mods to go 12.5X
This makes me wonder if a PES charged car with piggies and a catback can really go mid 12s, I personally don’t think it can.

#3

From all of the horror stories i have read on the PES fails I would stay far away. I would look for a used APR kit or go JHM. ALso if one chooses to go with a used PES kit then get a custum reliable tune

#4

Well PES can’t screw up the supercharger…the M90 or MP90 is what it is. They can screw up the tuning and belt run and cooling for sure.

As for VWrcer, we’ve already seen that headers + that blower isn’t any better than blower alone or headers alone. It’s not accretive at that level because the M90 is gasping. You’re either maxing it out, or are heatsoaking and you’re just hitting a wall.

As for M90 + piggies, here’s what it can do with 2.5 catless…tip to boot.

V8S4FUN
B6 S4 4.2
Auto
93
Unitronic
2.5 custom catless/Milltek
RAI SC (M90) 8 lbs
12.59 @ 112.56
1.89
JHM LW CP

#5

That’s like a someone telling you he’s got a great armour vest. It’s apparently so good that he gives you a .45 and says, “Here, shoot me”. But thats’s when you notice he’s wearing a spare vest underneath.
Instills confidence doesn’t it? Even if it was free, wtf is the point?

#6

^^ Agreed, it’s not about it being a good deal, it’s about it being a sketchy product from a sketchy company. Why risk it?

I had the opportunity to buy a full pes kit for my a4 (minus the tuning and injectors) for less than $500 (it was either 300 or 400 I can’t remember) and I turned it down. Theoretically it would have been a sub $1000 supercharger setup, but realistically it would have probably cost a few thousand and a potentially blown motor.

I’m guessing that’s what will happen to this guy.

#7

^^ Wow that’s cheap. But like you said, the other costs will add up.

#8

Honestly, for $1,500 I would buy one. You can’t go wrong for that price. Install it myself and have JHM custom tune it. It might run out of steam up top and cause some extra heat, but it’s still going to add some nice power.

If PES had sold it for $1,500 originally, they might not of caught so much flak. Seems to be an appropriate price for the performance it delivers :smiley:

#9

JHM wouldn’t tune it unless you paid them $60,000 and even then they might not.

In fact, I know they wouldn’t.

But there are other non-PES tune options for sure.

#10

Well, in that case I probably wouldn’t buy one at any cost then. Nothing could get me to ditch my JHM tune, SC or not…

#11

^^^interesting

You never know, but I get the impression they wouldn’t want to attach their name to a turd. Further it would be supporting a direct competitor.

Yes, they helped the APR guys out, but at the time JHM had no RS4 kit.

#12

I am a little confused. Did JHM really have involvement in tuning the APR kit or was it just the same tuner JHM uses (who is a “contractor” for JHM)?

Regardless, I am glad that JHM is using the APR loader (right?) for their software. I finally found a local place that I think can load the program for me.

#13

Hard to say… You would be hard pressed to say he is just a contractor for jhm who does the odd tune. He posts on this site daily so it shouldn’t be that confusing lol.

In the past three years he has been involved with let’s just estimate… About forty performance products for audi cars. 38 of them are for jhm and he also helped a couple other companies on one off here or there basis. That’s how I understand it anyway.

So you can decide.

Apr didn’t intend him to help at first. First their kit was installed on a car local to him… And it couldn’t do better than high 12s at 108 or so. In other words what my car did stock.

So the owner asked him to help and he wrote him a new tune. Car went 12.0-12.1 @ 116 immediately. Same day, same track. When count vohn told apr they nearly shit themselves…then asked to see the file… Then asked what he did.

According to Apr they made changes to their own file armed with fresh perspective on where they were failing.

Actually at first apr said they used the file from the jhm calibrator. That’s what they posted in t press release after they went 11s.

Then they recanted and denied any existence of outside help (even though I was standing there while the jhm calibrator communicated with apr about this file.)

Then they relented and admitted to having help, but claimed they didn’t use his file, and instead wrote a new file based on what he told them was wrong.

You can decide!

#14

does the kit throw serp belts? Saki, I’ve got some info for you related this this subject, but it’s best to be sent via PM…

#15

This is a quote from Keith@APR in the pressrelease after apr got the reconrd for fastest Rs4 at the time

[quote= Keith@APR][size=20pt]The new world record was set due to recent revisions in the intercooling system and a new calibration developed by APR’s Engineering Team in conjunction with a calibration engineer on the OEM side of the industry that works with JH Motorsport in California. APR’s Engineering team made significant changes to the Cam Phasing, Throttle Mapping, Timing Angles as well as areas in the calibration that allow for better overall drivability.
[/quote]

#16

What kit the pes? Yes they’ve had belt trouble.

And my pm box is open, although you just made a pretty bold proclamation in front of the forum so I’m not sure what makes you think a pm is better lol

#17

[/quote]
Good on APR for name checking JHM… even though they denied it at first lol. Isn’t that the incident that got saki the final ban at AZ?

#18

yup. Banned for holding APR’s feet to the fire for denying the Count Vohn invovement. That seems fair ??? ::slight_smile:

:slight_smile:

#19

this forum won’t permit me to PM anyone unless they contact me first. I don’t know if this is some probationary measure or what? ironic since I do read the threads and fur does fly on this forum. PM me and perhaps I have some insight for belt related issues.

#20

I threw a belt in the m90 but not the m112 pes rectified the problem with a redesign