piggies and milltek 2.5 catback to 2.75" catless fullback = ?? whp/wtq gains?

I apologize I have disrupted a few members posts and they might have come in under my account due to moving of posts. There is a update in the war room.

Stand out of the way son and let the big boys talk.

your getting worked up about a upstart kid. Then good for him you seem a little consumed for just knowing some random guy. This isn’t the first time in the history people like you and Ben have tried to scam people. At this point your making ben look worse and worse.

I was just calling it like I saw it. Now this looks like a collaboration between the two of you. Ill bet 10,000 your going to get his exhaust… right?.. ok… wake up son people are not stupid
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First off, no respect is given when you sit there and throw insults, son. Your message is pure speculation. I will tell you exactly what I am doing here. i am buying Ben’s exhaust #0002. His first one is going on his car. I have no benefits, no stake, nothing. I am paying what he is charging for the systems. And I am paying for it by selling my existing system and probably ponying in a bit more. I purchased Ben’s end links, fantastic product, and everythgin I have seen here exceeds my expectations.

For you to sit there and call it a scam, lets talk about that: Tell me where is the scam? You did throw it out, so do enlighten us on where this scam is? Has he taken orders? Has he taken peoples money Has he lied about testing? Please do share where you see the scam.

Now would you rather I came in and lied and said I was expert at exhausts? No, i am not like that, i will tell you exactly what I know and what I want. And I know my personal experiences with this and others as well. So if you value hypothesis and guesses over real experiences and measured results, then you should get into the real estate finance business. Measured results show this system is a better performing system than what i currently own. I want the better system. End of story.

Mick was that rant (that seems to have disappeared) addressed to me? I am kind of lost. Let me summarize some things for you.

a) I didn’t say Ben’s 344/277 setup was stock?

Thread Title: piggies and milltek 2.5 catback to 2.75" catless fullback = ?? whp/wtq gains?
OP: I describe the former setup in great detail

What part of this are you not seeing? I mean you clicked on the link to rant in here…didn’t you read anything?

b. I have nothing against Ben’s exhaust. I dont think he will have produced a replica…he knows he’ll catch shit for that. I hope it’s a great option for US as in RS4 owners. I just want to be clear on what the numbers really are. You guys on quattroworld were acting like he split the atom. He made 11 whp for fuck’s sake. It’s not that much because his before dyno was so good. I told Ben on an email directly that he needs a STOCK baseline to show what his exhaust is doing because piggies + miltlek is better than stock and it’s kind of hurting his gains. I told him ‘you’re selling your gains short’ or something to that effect by dynoing vs. a modified downpipe+modified catback. Show stock, then show delta vs. stock. That’s how this shit works.

c. you said " I challenged you to put your money where your mouth is. I have a JHM setup for sale. Good price, can’t buy it anywhere. Back up your talk and buy it, put it on your car, get a JHM tune some year, and dyno it. I have yet to see you do one single dyno, one single 3k - 8k pull, and share data. All you do is bash others. ’

first off, my RS4 has 3 years of warranty on it, so I’m in no rush to mod it. Go learn about TD1 if you haven’t heard. Second off, why the fuck would I buy anything from you? (ironically I tried to buy your exhaust LAST YEAR. Not from you, but I offered to pay Jason and Dan to NOT sell you parts, because I knew you’d be a disaster for the company. They turned me down unfortunately and said nice things about you, but I bet they’re laughing right now with you trying to throw them under the bus at every opportunity just because you don’t like me. Shows how strange you are.

I’ve shared plenty of data on this here forum, on AW and RS246. I haven’t shared on quattrofail, but that should be no surprise. You got me banned from there when I posted a picture of you looking like a softie after you threatened to punch me out. Then I offered to fly there and give you your best shot, but you backtracked and you said you’d call the cops when I said that if I stand up after, I get to give you one right back.

I’ve logged my car a bunch of times,dragraced it, pboxed it, and shared the data here, on RS246, on audiworld. Here’s a few recent examples, but there are dozens.

http://audirevolution.net/forum/index.php?topic=496.0

http://audirevolution.net/forum/index.php?topic=267.0

http://audirevolution.net/forum/index.php?topic=660.0

http://forums.audiworld.com/showpost.php?p=24265605&postcount=17

http://forum.rs246.com/viewtopic.php?f=35&t=95988#p506530

Not sure how interesting stock logs are, nor how interesting logs are to other people. I’d much rather go to the dragstrip and ‘log’ my car on a known, certified test course with world class timing equipment and fantastic data for comparison to millions of passes by thousands of other cars. Far more effective I think. I’ve taken my car to the dragstrip hile stock to get a bunch of STOCK BASELINE times for people to use as a reference, and I even started a dragstrip database for this forum (see the stickies at the top of the subforum page?) and that info will be invaluable for myself and others (when I’m ready to mod my car). I will likely never dyno my car because I don’t believe the dyno shows me much. I care that it’s faster, not that it produces pretty charts.

Mick, I’m sure you’re a bright guy. Let me ask you a couple of questions:

  1. SINCE WHEN has a tuning company been applauded for producing 11 whp over a mildly modified exhaust setup with the 2.36" stockdownpipe restriction still in place and a frankly terribly designed milltek catback behind it? do you honestly expect the smart folks on this forum to eat that shitburger you are trying to serve up?

  2. if JHM’s tune and exhaust are so bad and not strong enough, why were Dan and George able to run 12.2 @ 112? Why were you crowing about setting 3k to 8k records a few days ago?

If you really think shaving 250lbs out of a car is going to account for a big chunk of your gains, again it shows you’re green. First off all, the car may be down 250 lbs but don’t you understand that’s the equivalent of the acceleration gain of about 20 whp? Further, be honest…you weigh about 50-75 lbs more than most people out there. You must be 240-250 lbs yourself. So really your car is about 175 lbs lighter than a 175 lb driver’s RS4 is. That’s like 15 whp or a little over a tenth in a quarter mile drag race, and half a car length in a pull from 50-120 mph. That’s not a big deal bud. Your tune and exhaust are doing most of the work for you, like it or not.

Point made. It was kinda clear. Maybe your not sure how scams work, maybe its because your part of it.

dog and pony show son. Ben comes out and talk about a product then you come out here and say how its better then whats out there. yet that information isn’t even available. ONE test ONE and its made and done by the same guy who wants you to by his product. (I don’t know ben and Im not saying his testing isn’t legit) There is a difference between what you want to believe and what is true. You then bash others make claims on something you don’t even own… you think your first posts in defense of ben are going to make ben look even better.

Funny how your first post just happens to be about protecting Ben and the exhaust system that you bought that isn’t even on your car.

My notion is you just helped bury ben even further. Once again while you may think people are thick I doubt anyone is buying your talk.

I have to agree. The MickF comming in and going off then trying to calim its a better product just made ben look 50x worse.

No one is saying you can’t build a exhaust. I don’t care if ben is or isn’t stright knocking off someones exhaust. While Im not for or againsed mickF him comming in and posting what he did din’t help bens case.

Thanks, thats good info. So maybe someone from Rousch will sue JHM and AMD and Ben? My point is its completely ridiculous for people to be calling Ben a thief. If he is, then they all are.

Considering the same guy who worked with rousch and SVT made it for JHM and many others. I doubt this will be the case

[quote=“Flowtech,post:24,topic:3312”]
You are right, we are not finished with all the testing we need. I am hoping to be able to find some stock downpipes and go back this week to get a baseline of an actual stock exhaust system. That being said, we also would like to get some 3-8k times. Like Saki said, it is useless to try and compare cars, unless that is, we can establish that they do the same baseline amount on the same dyno.

I would also like to, when it is available, do some pulls on the dyno with the JHM tune. I will not run the tune on my car, I do not trust it, but 5 pulls and some driving around to let it adapt won’t hurt things.

I will not offer this for sale, or take anybody’s money until we have full testing results. We will post those and let people make their own decision as to what exhaust that want. This is not a scam, and I hope to provide the information required to help assure you that it isn’t. Yes, Mick is very enthusiastic about our exhaust, but he is a very logical person and I don’t think that has blinded him, even apart from the power/performance, there are other gains to be had from our exhaust.

Mick has 3 points on his JHM exhaust which scrape on the ground because his car is so low. On our exhaust, those points are nearly 2" higher up into the car. Additionally, our system has easily swappable cat/test pipe sections which can be removed easily at the track even if you wanted. You need two tools to do the swap and it can be done by one person in less than 5 minutes after jacking up the car.

Anyways, I don’t want to turn this into a big fight because it doesn’t benefit anybody. I designed this exhaust because it does what I wanted for my car that no other exhaust did. I figure other people would want the same features.

This is my understanding of the situation, its his work

look everyone knows me from QW. I have been in the RS4 game for 4 years now, and before that S4 and Corrado. I ma not here just because I want to shill for Ben. I am here because I think its ruthless what you guys are saying about him, calling him a thief, casting alot of speculation on what he is doing in a very negative way. Nobody has said much to the point of “wow Ben, hope you do well, looks like a good effort and we can’t wait to see more.” Thats the problem here. Everyone is so aligned and disciple like with JHM, its retarded. There are other games in town. Some worse, some better. But this forums blind allegiance to JHM is ridiculous. Give him a fair shot guys. thats all i am saying. He has convinced me that he can and does make very good stuff, and wants to make it quality and performance focused and at decent prices. You guys should be embracing him and rooting for him to succeed.

Ben’s case was determined by a few here who did not want to accept he was trying to do somethign cool. And that s the only reason I came in here. And with that I am more than happy to leave. I come to forums to discuss data, make friends, and in general learn and have fun. You guys non stop bash us over at QW, you are really the ones missing out. I value the friends and good times I have with those guys far more than the serial bashing you guys do here on people. You are all too quick to judge, not quick enough to admit error or appreciate the human on the other side of the keyboard.

[quote=“BenSTi,post:28,topic:3312”]

Ben You might want to put mick on a leash he is truning your credibilty that is already in question down teh tubes. you just said your not going to sell the kit he just said he bought one. Then he is clearly trying to pimp for you yet he is underminding what your sahying and it seems you guys need to get on the same page before you post

Look ben already did a dandy job of fucking himself with stuff he has said in the past. Things that he has done. It seems where there is ben there is a circus. Now with you comming in and saying how your sending ben parts and buying his exahust when he said its not cfor sale and he isn’t going to sell it. Just adds to the apparent scam as its been said.

I agree ben is a good over all guy and I htink he is probably making something great to help tgeh RS4 guys. If you can’t do that at the expence of bashing JHM there is an issue. Then to go out and havt this clear side show cirus just looks bad real bad.

Its clear Im njot the only one that thinks this. wiile ben is actually keepking a level head I think thats helpful. Still it just seems this isn’t looking good for him

I think you misunderstand, Mick told me he wants to buy my exhaust as soon as it is available and told me he wants the first one off the production line which I told him should be okay. He hasn’t paid for one, nor has he offered to pay for one yet, but he decided he want one. He is a grown man and can make his own choices, if he wants to promote my product because he is very happy with what he saw, that is up to him. Just as you guys promote JHM products because you like what you see.

Just letting you know what he said vs what your saying dont add up. You don’t need to justify it man. Im not shooting at you Im just letting you know.

I don’t respect the line of brinign up jhm to try and push your value but thats just what it is and seems to be how it works for you. If you check I support stuff that works and people and companys that have and are well respected. Im a supporter of many a company that makes product for audis. good luck with your project man

I have never once said JHM as a company is bad. I have criticized 2 products which I have personally had problems with, and I have criticized their customer support which I think almost everybody agrees needs to be better.

I had problems with their tune, and I was treated very poorly by them, when people ask, I tell them that. At the same time, the products which I have had very good experiences with, shifter, clutch, flywheel, etc I promote and recommend people to them because I know it is the best product out there.

As you will notice if you read back through, I do not have much experience with the JHM exhaust, my only experience has been taking it off and reinstalling it on a car once and seeing the dyno results and how they compare to my dyno results under the same conditions. There are too many variables and not enough testing to prove anything at this point, but so far we are very happy with the fitment, quality, sound, and power that our exhaust has made, and we hope to show through further testing that it is equivalent or better to the JHM system and other alternatives out there.

That’s all I am saying. Hopefully Mick gets some of the pictures uploaded that he took on his trip down here so I can show you guys what we are doing.

Thank you, I really hope that we can make products that you guys will help move the performance of this platform forward both on power and handling aspects.

one of the things I wont agree with you on is you have had issues with tehre tune. you have had issues with your car. Its clear.

when I visited JHM I asked about yhour car. They said they tested your car with you in it and your tune. They said they and you were not able to duplicate what you said was happening. This was after a 45 min drive to help you recreate hyour issues.

we have all seen stock Rs4s with issues and mechanical symtopnms that do’t make sense. I tghink we all know enough that the more power we make the moer it will explse issues.

Still I don’t want to get off tipic and get this tossed into the war room.

I would start to stand on your own two feet and get away from what seems to have been you attempting to make gains by bashing jhm,

Funky,
I never said I had already paid for an exhaust. You need to re-read what I posed. I said I am buying 0002 from him, and Ben has said he will sell em it when its ready. Thats it, nothing sinister there. Nothing there about me paying him already. You are putting words in my mouth.

As far as bashing JHM products. I am certainly not. I said and have said they are making very good stuff. I am not in the know in Ben’s tune issues except beyond what I heard second hand. I do know for a fact Linus has pinging, Dan acknowledged it and said he can fix it but of course he can’t really until they figure out how to flash cars again. I also know habeb and a couple other guys had pinging issues and Dan knows and admitted it, and has facilitated them in some way, some went back to stock until they get it sorted if they haven’t already.

please stop saying I am bashing them. I am not. In fact if anything this is a true view that the best exhaust on the market today is JHM or AMD. Since I have the JHM, and I know Ben and he asked me to run comparison dynos, its the benchmark. Ben wants to make something as good, and it turns out in my opinion and form the testing so far, it very likely is better. And as Ben said and I said earlier, more testing to come. nowhere will you fins any post from me bashing JHM product. I stated very factually where my disappointments are. Thats it.

back on topic: Ben, are you satisfied making 11 whp over that piggies/milltek setup?

while Mick is thrilled enoughwith 11 whp to throw the JHM system in the garbage, I would like to know…do you think that is a good result? The decat alone could have produced 11 whp.

Because I think if any rational, sane person understands that, they will realise that these numbers are pretty normal. If you realise these numbers are pretty normal, you should also be real confused about why Mick is abandoning his PROVEN (dyno, logs, dragstrip) JHM setup. His perfervid support for Ben has NOTHING to do with Ben’s exhaust accomplishments. It has to do with a vendetta towards JHM as well as some other interest in Ben/Ben’s company (maybe Ben’s his friend and he wants to promote his stuff?)

Once that’s out of the way and you see that he’s playing a grudge game, I think we can all discount ANYTHING mick says about this exhaust, as well as any testing he does on it, comparing to his JHM stuff…he’s clearly crossed a bridge.

Ben, as I said to you on the email I sent you, your numbers look solid, but we need to see what your exhaust is really adding. Get a stock exhaust on your car and dyno it. Then pull it off and put your exhaust on and dyno it. Do it at 034 or wherever, and then share that delta. Then go get the car tuned. Then dyno it and share that delta. Then go to the dragstrip and try to beat 12.28 @ 112.45 MPH (George’s time which is the fastest all motor time). Then share that data. Do all of these tings, and we’ll start to see what you’ve got here, and can evaluate if it’s worth buying etc. Until then though, if you want to post on this forum and get people excited, 11 whp over stock dps - precats + milltek catback isn’t going to do it. It’ll sell half a dozen sets to Mick and his sycophant Smithers-like pet SWESNA et al…but it won’t fly here.

That isn’t correct what they are telling you. When I went back the first time after getting the new motor (when I went to get the tune flashed on), I went with a friend. Dan flashed the tune, and then went off on his own to do some logs, he came back and said it was perfect and sent us on our way. We went back to the road where they were doing pulls and before we even got there we could clearly hear the pinging with the windows up. We went right back to JHM and Dan came with us and heard the pinging, he said it must because we had more people (AKA more load) in the car. He flashed it to their least aggressive tune and then did some logs. We didn’t notice any pinging at that time doing a couple pulls, however that night we noticed the same audible pinging. I don’t remember exactly the next couple days however I do know I talked to Keaton 2-3 times about the pinging and was told Dan would call me back which never happened. I had a track day I believe about 2 weeks later and I decided I would run the car on 100oct and do logs. When it was still pinging on 100oct under pretty much any load, I called JHM from the track and was never able to get through to them. From then on it was something like 2 months of me not being able to drive my car hard when I first posted about it on Audizine. Their tuner called me out the blue and told me he would take care of me. He had me go back to JHM (a 70mile drive each way for me) and that they would flash the car to either a different tune or back to stock. They flashed it back to stock and gave me a cable to flash it with. I did logs and sent them to the tuner. I decided that it wasn’t worth risking engine damage for the tune, the gains were not worth the risk to me.

That being said, I have been on stock tune since then.

This is off topic now so I will leave it at that, but I figured I should set the story straight about what happened.

mick what good are your dynos when you have a bad PRIMARY CONTROL o2 sensor?

Your fucking car is running lean on bank one, yet you drove to another state to dyno your car for ‘a nice kid’? So while leaning out, you went WOT to 8250 rpms a few times in a row? Awesome. I’ve never heard of anything this stupid.

Let’s just get this posted so that when Mick’s motor has scored cylinders on all of bank 2 we know why

http://i44.tinypic.com/sy8m12.png

Good enough. Ben has bashed jhm in the past but since changed his tone. So ts better for him i think.

ben and you saying your getting edxhaust #2 that dosn’t even exsist and you guys both agreeing that is the case along with you sending parts to ben all shows your not a interest free peson in this equatin.

Back to the topic the ben results are close to the MTM results. So it seems the 2.75 is the way to go.