piggies and milltek 2.5 catback to 2.75" catless fullback = ?? whp/wtq gains?

[mickf29]

back on topic: Ben, are you satisfied making 11 whp over that piggies/milltek setup?

while Mick is thrilled enoughwith 11 whp to throw the JHM system in the garbage, I would like to know…do you think that is a good result? The decat alone could have produced 11 whp.

Because I think if any rational, sane person understands that, they will realise that these numbers are pretty normal. If you realise these numbers are pretty normal, you should also be real confused about why Mick is abandoning his PROVEN (dyno, logs, dragstrip) JHM setup. His perfervid support for Ben has NOTHING to do with Ben’s exhaust accomplishments. It has to do with a vendetta towards JHM as well as some other interest in Ben/Ben’s company (maybe Ben’s his friend and he wants to promote his stuff?)

Once that’s out of the way and you see that he’s playing a grudge game, I think we can all discount ANYTHING mick says about this exhaust, as well as any testing he does on it, comparing to his JHM stuff…he’s clearly crossed a bridge.

Ben, as I said to you on the email I sent you, your numbers look solid, but we need to see what your exhaust is really adding. Get a stock exhaust on your car and dyno it. Then pull it off and put your exhaust on and dyno it. Do it at 034 or wherever, and then share that delta. Then go get the car tuned. Then dyno it and share that delta. Then go to the dragstrip and try to beat 12.28 @ 112.45 MPH (George’s time which is the fastest all motor time). Then share that data. Do all of these tings, and we’ll start to see what you’ve got here, and can evaluate if it’s worth buying etc. Until then though, if you want to post on this forum and get people excited, 11 whp over stock dps - precats + milltek catback isn’t going to do it. It’ll sell half a dozen sets to Mick and his sycophant Smithers like SWESNA et al…but it won’t fly here.

What the hell are you talking about? I have no grudge against JHM. You are making zero sense. here. I jsut talked to Dan 3 days ago about trying to get that tuen I have been waiting on.

I had no illusions that the exhaust Ben was making would do this well. i was purely interested in helping him out, doing some pulls, and dropping added weight if he had a decent system in titanium. Which is where the interest went with me. I have no stake in this financially or emotionally. I like Ben and want him to do well because it means RS4 owners will be rewarded with more cool stuff, and he has proven to me that he can do good things, based ont eh end links. So the exhaust was a complete shock to me.

Again you keep harping on the 11whp number. You need to look at baseline for a stock car. 320whp. JHM will not sell their system gains as a value against some incremental change above stock, why would you continue to harp on this number. He is 35wp over stock. JHM is 33whp over stock on my car healthy with current tune. Dan was 52whp over stock with his aggressive tune. The thing that is amazing to me is Ben is 35whp over stock no tune. You need to realize that a miltek and pig pipe system can and has made 340’ish on dynos before with no tune. You keep saying miltek is crap, i tend to agree but it still allows the car to produce more power than stock. I am not sure why you are denying it. And you are saying this as a basis to claim the dyno read high on that specific particular test. You know what i said to ben when we were getting ready for his test? He said what do you think it will make. I said 335/285. Because I thought there was no way he woudl make that without a tune, and I also thought that the first reading of 344 was too high and was suspect. because it was no tune, and because it was with 11k miles and carbon.

Well this is why I was so shocked. His first pulls, were on and this set run back to back with me proved it.

[BenSTi]

back on topic: Ben, are you satisfied making 11 whp over that piggies/milltek setup?

Once I go back and get some actual dyno numbers with a stock exhaust we will see what the actual delta is and go from there. I am pretty happy with dynoing this high, yes, but the true test will be to dyno with a completly stock setup.

while Mick is thrilled enoughwith 11 whp to throw the JHM system in the garbage, I would like to know…do you think that is a good result? The decat alone could have produced 11 whp.

I have not seen what the actual delta between stock and ours is with stock tune, but at the same time, I have not seen that either for the JHM exhaust, only exhaust and tune. If I can get my hands on the JHM exhaust again I am more than happy to pay the $80/dyno to see what the actual results are.

What Mick decides to do with his money is up to him. He is not throwing the JHM exhaust in the garage, he is selling it and changing to our setup for a number of reasons, one of which is he believes he has more power potential on our exhaust vs the JHM exhaust. Other reasons include ground clearance, weld quality and appearance (JHM is MIG vs TIG on ours), and swappable cat/decat sections.

Because I think if any rational, sane person understands that, they will realise that these numbers are pretty normal. If you realise these numbers are pretty normal, you should also be real confused about why Mick is abandoning his PROVEN (dyno, logs, dragstrip) JHM setup. His perfervid support for Ben has NOTHING to do with Ben’s exhaust accomplishments. It has to do with a vendetta towards JHM as well as some other interest in Ben/Ben’s company (maybe Ben’s his friend and he wants to promote his stuff?)

I don’t know what his exact motivations are, only he does, but I do know he does feel somewhat burned by the way he has been treated by JHM and that probably has something to do with why he wants to move on to another product. Not being happy with a company is different than having a vendetta against them.

Ben, as I said to you on the email I sent you, your numbers look solid, but we need to see what your exhaust is really adding. Get a stock exhaust on your car and dyno it. Then pull it off and put your exhaust on and dyno it. Do it at 034 or wherever, and then share that delta. Then go get the car tuned. Then dyno it and share that delta. Then go to the dragstrip and try to beat 12.28 @ 112.45 MPH (George’s time which is the fastest all motor time). Then share that data. Do all of these tings, and we’ll start to see what you’ve got here, and can evaluate if it’s worth buying etc.

That is the plan, not really sure how well I will do 1/4 mile, I have never done that before and I have only ever launched my car once. Can you email me some information on what exactly George had done to his car so I can match it as closely as possible? I want to provide whatever information you guys feel is relevant/prudent to this.

Until then though, if you want to post on this forum and get people excited, 11 whp over stock dps - precats + milltek catback isn’t going to do it. It’ll sell half a dozen sets to Mick and his sycophant Smithers like SWESNA et al…but it won’t fly here.

Can we stop the name calling and insults? It doesn’t add anything to the discussion and just puts people on edge. I think we will be able to have much more reasonable discussions if the name calling and personal insults are left out.

[mickf29]

one of the things I wont agree with you on is you have had issues with tehre tune. you have had issues with your car. Its clear.

when I visited JHM I asked about yhour car. They said they tested your car with you in it and your tune. They said they and you were not able to duplicate what you said was happening. This was after a 45 min drive to help you recreate hyour issues.

we have all seen stock Rs4s with issues and mechanical symtopnms that do’t make sense. I tghink we all know enough that the more power we make the moer it will explse issues.

Still I don’t want to get off tipic and get this tossed into the war room.

I would start to stand on your own two feet and get away from what seems to have been you attempting to make gains by bashing jhm,

Funky,
I never said I had already paid for an exhaust. You need to re-read what I posed. I said I am buying 0002 from him, and Ben has said he will sell em it when its ready. Thats it, nothing sinister there. Nothing there about me paying him already. You are putting words in my mouth.

As far as bashing JHM products. I am certainly not. I said and have said they are making very good stuff. I am not in the know in Ben’s tune issues except beyond what I heard second hand. I do know for a fact Linus has pinging, Dan acknowledged it and said he can fix it but of course he can’t really until they figure out how to flash cars again. I also know habeb and a couple other guys had pinging issues and Dan knows and admitted it, and has facilitated them in some way, some went back to stock until they get it sorted if they haven’t already.

please stop saying I am bashing them. I am not. In fact if anything this is a true view that the best exhaust on the market today is JHM or AMD. Since I have the JHM, and I know Ben and he asked me to run comparison dynos, its the benchmark. Ben wants to make something as good, and it turns out in my opinion and form the testing so far, it very likely is better. And as Ben said and I said earlier, more testing to come. nowhere will you fins any post from me bashing JHM product. I stated very factually where my disappointments are. Thats it.

Good enough. Ben has bashed jhm in the past but since changed his tone. So ts better for him i think.

ben and you saying your getting edxhaust #2 that dosn’t even exsist and you guys both agreeing that is the case along with you sending parts to ben all shows your not a interest free peson in this equatin.

Back to the topic the ben results are close to the MTM results. So it seems the 2.75 is the way to go.

I am sending parts to him at his request, which is to satisfy saki and others request to run his car stock on the dyno. I am sending him a set of stock DP’s in my garage, with all cats intact. Thats the only thing I am sending, i have not sent anything else. My comments about wanting exhaust #2 are true, and I did ask Ben, because I saw what his looked like, and how they performed. I know a good thing when i see it.

[sakimano]

What the hell are you talking about? I have no grudge against JHM. You are making zero sense. here. I jsut talked to Dan 3 days ago about trying to get that tuen I have been waiting on.

oh please, you just agreed to junk their exhaust and tune because Ben made 11 whp over piggies and fucking milltek. You’re on a campaign. You also blamed them for you being so SHIT at the quarter mile on quattrofail. You said your 13.X @ 109 is because of their weak tune that you’re running. Umm…no its because you suck at simple stuff like launching the car and changing gears. You admitted that a few months ago when you still liked JHM. Now they’re responsible for your terrible skills?

Go PBOX a simulated quarter mile for me and I’ll show you how long your shifts take and how much distance you’re wasting not accelerating. A good driver with your car would run low 12s @ 112 pretty easily. Go to Sacramento with Dan and Jason and let them run your car. It might run 11s with your car’s weight reduction and Dan driving which will knock another 80 lbs off the thing vs. you driving.

Again you keep harping on the 11whp number. You need to look at baseline for a stock car. 320whp.

No I don’t. I will look at that when Ben’s car with his new engine and his new intake and other mods makes 320 whp with stock, catted exhaust.

[quote=mickf29]He is 35wp over stock.
[/quote]
no he’s not.
a) he never dyno’d stock
b) his 355 whp run is not ‘stock’ other than his exhaust… he has a few other mods helping him on the dyno. Put a ram air scoop with a massive fan aimed at it and it will help. Why you keep comparing his numbers to other cars shows how much you’re not thinking like the scientist you claim you are. If you want to sell exhausts with your partner Ben (because that’s what it sounds like) you really should learn how to do this stuff. I learned about this in like grade 6 science. You don’t throw a bunch of variables (ram air, new engine etc) into the mix and then compare his modded numbers to some other fucking guy’s stock numbers. That’s GSG type bullshit. You really want Ben to be GSG? Keep talking.

You take BEN’S CAR with stock downpipes and catback and whatever other mods you want.
You dyno it.
You then take BEN’S CAR (not yours…not Linus’…not Schroeder’s…BEN’S) and put his 2.75 fullback on the same day.
You dyno it.
YOU THEN HOLD THAT DELTA UP AS ATTRIBUTABLE TO BEN’S EXHAUST…END OF DISCUSSION.

Come on dude…you’re smarter.

You guys are catching flak because you’re taking shots at a tuning company many of us like, and we consider the employees friends in some cases. But that’s only the start of it. The rest of the stuff is you turning a blind eye to some obvious problems with this marketing method.

I said to Ben in the email that he should have dyno’d stock (what I just outlined above) and that way there wouldn’t be any of this confusion. Nobody is discounting his accomplishments…because he hasn’t really accomplished much other than a confusing dyno result.

Go read the supercharger argument…we gave TTS shit because they weren’t running at the VERY LOCAL quarter mile and they were dodging sending in the pbox files for verification. When they did it right, everyone on this fucking site became a HUGE TTS fan.

If Ben does the same thing (does it right) he’ll get the same support. Until you realise that about this crew here you’ll always be over on quattroworld talking about nothing and thinking everyone here is mean when reality is everyone here just wants RESULTS.

[sakimano]

Once I go back and get some actual dyno numbers with a stock exhaust we will see what the actual delta is and go from there. I am pretty happy with dynoing this high, yes, but the true test will be to dyno with a completly stock setup.

please phone mick and tell him the part in bold

That is the plan, not really sure how well I will do 1/4 mile, I have never done that before and I have only ever launched my car once. Can you email me some information on what exactly George had done to his car so I can match it as closely as possible? I want to provide whatever information you guys feel is relevant/prudent to this.

you can check the quarter mile thread. HIs modlist is all outlined. Same on my youtube.

you’ll do fine at the strip. Just don’t let mick drive the car.

[quote]Can we stop the name calling and insults? It doesn’t add anything to the discussion and just puts people on edge. I think we will be able to have much more reasonable discussions if the name calling and personal insults are left out.
[/quote]
you know me…I hold grudges. Any name calling and insults were well deserved for shit those guys have posted about me first on quttroworld like little cowards. SWESNA is great at it…he posts on audiworld and says nothing to me where I can offer a firm rebuttal. Then he posts on quattroworld and talks shit. It’s like he thinks I don’t see it. Guy is clueless, so it’s fine by me if he wants to jump on the bandwagon with mick or whomever. That whole site is very…different. I just don’t let people get away with shit like that.

[SquiddyB6S4]

Personally, I would like to see a screenshot of this “flow model”, including some of the input parameters. To the best of my knowledge, nobody has even measured some of the input variables needed to make a good model for this. You have to understand that simulating air flow through a pair of pipes is totally worthless when creating an exhaust. There are a slew of variables that come into play when designing an exhaust, and it sounds like you don’t understand that. You can make a pretty picture easily with COSMOS or other software, but that doesn’t make it true to or valuable to the design and the physics at hand. Flow through a tube and exhaust flow through a tube are almost nothing alike; from a complexity standpoint, it’s like comparing the Briggs & Stratton in your lawnmower to your Audi BHF motor. Sure, it’s got some similarities, but it’s worlds apart.

This is why many companies [esp. those without big money] build an exhaust part in prototype over and over again, and see what works best. The flow model is so complicated that their time and money is better spent just trying out different ideas for some parts. Now a big pro race team or OEM or something, that’s a different story. Ricardo owns

[vdubjetta02]

Ben & Mick can argue their design all they want… until they post actual tests, I have no respect. You can’t just say “due to all the tests we ran, Ben’s exhaust is better”

Get the same car, same dyno, same day. Bolt on a 2.75" JHM catless exhaust & then Ben’s exhaust. Then let’s really see the difference… The piggies/Milltek have no relevance to the JHM vs. Ben’s exhaust arguement at all.

[beemercer]

Personally, I would like to see a screenshot of this “flow model”, including some of the input parameters. To the best of my knowledge, nobody has even measured some of the input variables needed to make a good model for this. You have to understand that simulating air flow through a pair of pipes is totally worthless when creating an exhaust. There are a slew of variables that come into play when designing an exhaust, and it sounds like you don’t understand that. You can make a pretty picture easily with COSMOS or other software, but that doesn’t make it true to or valuable to the design and the physics at hand. Flow through a tube and exhaust flow through a tube are almost nothing alike; from a complexity standpoint, it’s like comparing the Briggs & Stratton in your lawnmower to your Audi BHF motor. Sure, it’s got some similarities, but it’s worlds apart.

This is why many companies [esp. those without big money] build an exhaust part in prototype over and over again, and see what works best. The flow model is so complicated that their time and money is better spent just trying out different ideas for some parts. Now a big pro race team or OEM or something, that’s a different story. Ricardo owns

I’m inclined to agree with you, a model is only as good as the quality of its inputs.

http://forums.quattroworld.com/rs4b7/threads/5308.phtml#78365

Its great you took the time to model the exhaust, but I feel pressure losses is the best measure of flow efficiency, not velocity drop. Also the loss of a pulsed input makes me question how accurate it is. The crossover design should be heavily influced by how the pulses enter that area, how well they can move bank to bank etc.

Again great work taking the time to model the exhaust, its great to see something as simple as a catback get so throughly examined, scrutinized and designed, but I dont feel a flow model is conclusive proof of one being better than the other.

[sakimano]

I agree with vdubjetta…the dyno has not been sufficient ‘proof’ to sell a product to the B6/7 S4/RS4 guys on this or almost any other forum since about 2008. No reason it’s going to start now…and definitely not here.

We’ll need to see independant dyno results showing proper stock vs. Steinigan Exhaust Co. results, and then of course some acceleration tests like pbox and 1/4 mile results before we get excited on this forum. They should take a page from justincredible’s book and replicate his test of the Milltek 2.25 vs. JHM 2.5 vs. no catback exhaust tests he did at the dragstrip.

Sound tests are also VERY important. Nobody has mentioned how this sounds…which is odd, as Ben’s biggest complaint about the JHM exhaust, which was one of the main reasons he embarked on building his own rather than buying theirs, was the sound. That’s a little strange when you consider that Ben went and used the exact same mufflers JHM chose.

[swesna]

I want to thanks Ben for his efforts in developing another option for my car. I am looking forward to the additional test he performs and to see the finished product, especially the Ti version.

Prior to hearing about Ben designing/building an exhaust I was interested in other versions of a 2.75" exhaust. One of them being JHM but as we all know they have not been able to deliver them for some reason.

At this point I am waiting to see the rest of Ben’s results and then if all looks good purchase it and then take my car to EPL for a custom tune.

Saki are you doing any mods to your car currently? My car is currently bone stock with only 18K miles on it.

[ChrisK]

Personally, I would like to see a screenshot of this “flow model”, including some of the input parameters. To the best of my knowledge, nobody has even measured some of the input variables needed to make a good model for this. You have to understand that simulating air flow through a pair of pipes is totally worthless when creating an exhaust. There are a slew of variables that come into play when designing an exhaust, and it sounds like you don’t understand that. You can make a pretty picture easily with COSMOS or other software, but that doesn’t make it true to or valuable to the design and the physics at hand. Flow through a tube and exhaust flow through a tube are almost nothing alike; from a complexity standpoint, it’s like comparing the Briggs & Stratton in your lawnmower to your Audi BHF motor. Sure, it’s got some similarities, but it’s worlds apart.

This is why many companies [esp. those without big money] build an exhaust part in prototype over and over again, and see what works best. The flow model is so complicated that their time and money is better spent just trying out different ideas for some parts. Now a big pro race team or OEM or something, that’s a different story. Ricardo owns

thank god for the squidd. I fully agree.

I want to thanks Ben for his efforts in developing another option for my car. I am looking forward to the additional test he performs and to see the finished product, especially the Ti version.

Prior to hearing about Ben designing/building an exhaust I was interested in other versions of a 2.75" exhaust. One of them being JHM but as we all know they have not been able to deliver them for some reason.

At this point I am waiting to see the rest of Ben’s results and then if all looks good purchase it and then take my car to EPL for a custom tune.

Saki are you doing any mods to your car currently? My car is currently bone stock with only 18K miles on it.

I would also like to thank ben its great to have options. If indeeed it is a better option. Still we have just mickF pushing bad press and bad info at us with ben offering nothing more then talk and one test.

Still tho I would take a few seconds and think about why JHM isn’t pushing tehre exhaust. Look at teh history of JHMs testing and development. Why is there not a JHM RS4 official tune reslease. Clearly they JHM have more tunes out there for the RS4 then the other companys. Seems the REAL companys was getting there ducks in a row and clealy know there are things to be adressed.

if you want to piss your money away then have fun with teh custom tune of the EPL. Other wise I would sit bacjk and wait for more info. JHM or othere wise.

[euroswagr]

back on topic: Ben, are you satisfied making 11 whp over that piggies/milltek setup?

while Mick is thrilled enoughwith 11 whp to throw the JHM system in the garbage, I would like to know…do you think that is a good result? The decat alone could have produced 11 whp.

Because I think if any rational, sane person understands that, they will realise that these numbers are pretty normal. If you realise these numbers are pretty normal, you should also be real confused about why Mick is abandoning his PROVEN (dyno, logs, dragstrip) JHM setup. His perfervid support for Ben has NOTHING to do with Ben’s exhaust accomplishments. It has to do with a vendetta towards JHM as well as some other interest in Ben/Ben’s company (maybe Ben’s his friend and he wants to promote his stuff?)

Once that’s out of the way and you see that he’s playing a grudge game, I think we can all discount ANYTHING mick says about this exhaust, as well as any testing he does on it, comparing to his JHM stuff…he’s clearly crossed a bridge.

Ben, as I said to you on the email I sent you, your numbers look solid, but we need to see what your exhaust is really adding. Get a stock exhaust on your car and dyno it. Then pull it off and put your exhaust on and dyno it. Do it at 034 or wherever, and then share that delta. Then go get the car tuned. Then dyno it and share that delta. Then go to the dragstrip and try to beat 12.28 @ 112.45 MPH (George’s time which is the fastest all motor time). Then share that data. Do all of these tings, and we’ll start to see what you’ve got here, and can evaluate if it’s worth buying etc. Until then though, if you want to post on this forum and get people excited, 11 whp over stock dps - precats + milltek catback isn’t going to do it. It’ll sell half a dozen sets to Mick and his sycophant Smithers-like pet SWESNA et al…but it won’t fly here.

This makes the most sense in this whole thread. Stop talking about the system and how great of a design it is…about how much higher it sits for guys that are slammed. The only thing that matters is the advantage over stock, and the performance, which will be respected most by 1/4 times.

If it’s amazing, people will by it. Customer service will play a huge part in this game too.

[sakimano]

[quote=swesna]Saki are you doing any mods to your car currently? My car is currently bone stock with only 18K miles on it.
[/quote]
Mine is bone stock just like yours. 35,000 miles on mine.

JHM’s fabricator chose VAST in the ‘breakup’ between JHM and VAST (smart move since he’s local to them and 2000 miles from JHM). Fortunately the designer of the exhaust is still with JHM so they’ve been working on finding a new fabricator up to their specs. They’ve got that all in place, but business is just slow sometimes. I imagine their grand re-opening will have lots of news for us. They’ve been kinda tight lipped.

[euroswagr]

I agree completely with the whole concept of “competition” but who has ever given the B6/B7 S4 or B7 RS4 a second look besides JHM.

How many of you RS4 guys were ecstatic when JHM announced that they snatched up an RS4 for the shop car to begin fabricating parts on?

[swesna]

Still tho I would take a few seconds and think about why JHM isn’t pushing tehre exhaust. Look at teh history of JHMs testing and development. Why is there not a JHM RS4 official tune reslease. Clearly they JHM have more tunes out there for the RS4 then the other companys. Seems the REAL companys was getting there ducks in a row and clealy know there are things to be adressed.

if you want to piss your money away then have fun with teh custom tune of the EPL. Other wise I would sit bacjk and wait for more info. JHM or othere wise.

Chris at this point I could not get a JHM tune or exhaust, neither is possible. They are not pushing their exhaust because they do not have the ability to build it … ie no fabricator I would have liked to have one of them but I was not part of special group that were able to purchase them. But this may be lucky for me if Ben’s exhaust shows better results and I can get it in Ti. Poor Mick got in on the ground floor and has his listed on az. Wait maybe some of you guys can purchase that from him 1) if you like the the JHM exhaust 2) if you have a RS4 and 3) if you got the money or you can wait like me and see which is better.

AMD has the same issue. Someone suggested I get the AMD exhaust and EPL tune. Well I send an email to AMD and they came back with the same as JHM…we are not building them now.

I do like you guys want to hear what Ben’s sounds like because it has to sound good or no one will be willing to put it on their car.

Also, are you saying EPL’s tune is bad?

Thanks,
Steve

[TTSRS4]

getting away from the arguing in the thread, i’m trying to have an exhaust built for my supercharged car, 3 inch dp’s and full system produced power losses over my milltek, is the jhm my best bet as an upgrade?

[sakimano]

1. Poor Mick got in on the ground floor and has his listed on az.

Wait maybe some of you guys can purchase that from him 1) if you like the the JHM exhaust 2) if you have a RS4 and 3) if you got the money or you can wait like me and see which is better.

2. I do like you guys want to hear what Ben’s sounds like because it has to sound good or no one will be willing to put it on their car.

3. Also, are you saying EPL’s tune is bad?

1. Poor mick got in on the ground floor??? He’s lucky they let him in the building. Mick got a great exhaust on his car that is KICK ASS and performs very well. It rubs because he’s so lowered? So don’t be so lowered. His quarter mile times suck? So don’t be so bad at driving. His dyno sucks? So don’t dyno when you have a bad o2 sensor. His in gear single gear pulls are amazing? The one thing you can’t fuck up? Great. But it’s weight loss and not the JHM stuff lol. Sure.

I don’t get this woe is Mick attitude. Someone will purchase his exhaust (although he historically asks too much for used parts. What’s he asking for this?

With respect to complaining about not having the exhaust for sale at EPL and JHM, Ben will soon learn that the exhaust selling business is a SHIT business if you’re small. The labour and parts to do it right (high quality stainless…2.75…proper fab work…best clamps) are extortionate compared to doing it shit. JHM shared with me some of their margin info a year or so ago and I said ‘why the fuck don’t you just have Fast Intentions do the RS4 exhaust kinda like you did with the B6/7 S4???’

Don’t be shocked if they don’t drop everything to sell you a catback for a modest and time intensive profit. Ask Jason at AMD if he’d rather work on a built motor project with Tial 770s for $20,000 or sell an exhaust for a few bucks of profit after 6 hours of fabrication.

2. Ben’s car will sound very similar to the JHM exhaust. Same diameter, same resonated section (if he puts one in it will likely be the same one), same crossover, and same mufflers. I can’t wait to hear them side by side. I will bet a Cherry Coke that they’re nearly indistinguishable (comparing JHM res vs. Ben res or non-res vs. non-res).

3. Seriously? Show me the fast EPL tuned cars on the various quarter mile lists for the B5/6/7 S4/RS4 (a standardized acceleration test repeatable around the world, and for which there is more data thanks to every US car journal using it as their staple performance test). There aren’t really any. EPL isn’t so hot at tuning Audis…let alone all motor Audis. You have 2 EPL tuned superstars on quattroworld…and they both ran out and bought BMW 1Ms within a couple of months of getting EPL tuned. Have they shared their logs? Gone to the dragstrip? Done any pulls against other RS4s to share with the community? NOt that I’ve seen, but maybe you know better.

Maybe you’re excited about EPL for some reason. Please share it with me. In fact…besides proximity, and being influenced by the EPL fanboyism on quattroworld, spurred mostly by the fact they’re NOT jhm, can you please tell me what qualifies EPL to be worthy of consideration? After seeing elevens run 12.5 @ 110-111 I’d go GIAC long before getting tricked into a ‘custom’ EPL tune.

Here’s a funny read. More of the analysis that I don’t do according to mick.

http://www.audizine.com/forum/showthread.php/420178-EPL-Custom-Tune-vs-APR-OTS-TUNE-vs-GIAC-OTS-TUNE

[sakimano]

getting away from the arguing in the thread, i’m trying to have an exhaust built for my supercharged car, 3 inch dp’s and full system produced power losses over my milltek, is the jhm my best bet as an upgrade?

buy Mick’s. Offer him $2000 (1200 pounds sterling) for the downpipes + catback. Shipping will be killer but it will get there for far less than even an MTM catback.

[swesna]

EPL due to proximity and the few who have worked with them say they are good. But I have no proof other than that. Also, i know they work on some serious cars up there.

AMD/JHM are the ones I originally contacted for an exhaust. I agree there is more money to be made doing other things but basically they both currently do not have these exhaust available and are out of the picture.

That is one of the reasons I am open to seeing what Ben’s exhaust does. Would like to hear it though…I know Mick’s sounded nice.

[Meistah]

If you’re just looking for a 2.75" exhaust, cost isn’t the deciding factor, and you need it now… Do you not have any local shops that can fab one up? I know of 2 places locally that would do it for me if I had an RS4, it would be a bit pricey but it would be a great exhaust. And I could have it right away. Actually one of the shops often gives ridiculous deals (cost of parts no labor) to people when they are doing a one-off part they can potentially sell more of in the future.