POLL: Drag slicks and seat/exhaust removal...do we want these times on the list?

Audi 1/4 mile, List & discussion forum
#1

Just looking for the forum’s opinion.

We drive Audis. They are somewhat luxurious street cars. We test acceleration at the dragstrip. We keep a list to allow other folks to compare modifications and get a feel for what works and what doesn’t for their platform.

What I want to discuss is times set with ‘no seats’ or ‘no catback’ or with non-street tires/drag tires. We drive with 4 leather seats and a full exhaust on the car…we don’t drive around with open dumps and while sitting on a milk crate and no dashboard. So shoudl we be adding those times to our benchmark list? At the end of the day our list isn’t a dragstrip competition because we don’t give a shit about reaction times or trophies. We’re benchmarking acceleration.

What do you guys think?

This will annoy APR as their RS4 record would fall (slicks, no seats, no exhaust)
This will annoy GIAC as their fastest B8 S4 in the world 11.46 would fall off as well (no front passenger seat) although they ran again WITH the seat in and posted 11.49 which is still the record.
This will also annoy JHM as their B5 S4 K04 record would fall as they had no catback on for that run.

So it’s not playing favourites or trying to hurt any tuners. I’m interested only in protecting the point of the list, which is a fantastic resource for comparing cars/mods while also being a fun competition. With any competition there are rules.

Let’s hear your thoughts…first post your answers to teh 2 questions, then you can share your thoughts right after.

  1. Should we eliminate times for cars removing parts (seats, exhaust)?

  2. Should we eliminate times for cars running slicks?

Reality is this will only remove like 5 times from the entire list, and only 3 that anyone cares about (see above) so it’s not a big deal but let’s hear your thoughts.

#2

Part of me wants to say that we should have a filter on the list (or two columns added - street tire, and full trim yes/no) so that they can be filtered out. That way AR just manages one list but by applying two filters, we can get the ‘street’ trim available.

But that said, I cast my vote already. :slight_smile:

#3

a good idea. problem with that is I think it’s not possible to add columns now and we’d need to go through and edit every listing ever…all to preserve 5 times (out of a few hundred)

#4

What about a second list, that is kind of a “anything goes” type of deal for non street trim? Could even add cars like the USP VR6 B5 etc…

#5

I would like to add that I had this suggestion in the past.

When you look at it nobody is really beiting from those kinds of results for data. Street trim or your not on the list. Real world results. We can give an honorable mention about the times but those times are garbage to real world data and miss leading if your not doing the work to look deeper. Heck look at it this way. Are the b8 guys using the stripped out b8 S4 stage 3 times as a real benchmark

I think the list here is for real people driving real cars. Street cars anything other is a false representative of what the list represents

So
1 Yes
2 yes

#6

Sure, you can run that one. And do the programming.

P. S. ricer lover

#7

Street cars street trim. If people are going to put slicks on or remove back seats then they should go up against proper drag cars. The full trim Datsun GTR guys running 10.x @ 130 with their mate in the passenger seat are just going to laugh at you removing furniture to run 11.x

#8

haha furniture

so far the poll is at 9 votes against either, and 2 votes to allow everything, with another 1 each for slicks ok but not parts, and vice versa.

Basically 11 votes against and 2 votes to allow all times.

#9

Full interior and street tires only.

#10

I’d get rid of the parts removers at least. It’s kinda ghetto to me, unless it’s for a specific reason, i.e. cage install, etc.

For tires, you’d have to qualify what is a slick vs. a drag radial, considering road worthiness. I know lots of people driving their R6s to lapping days, and they are street legal.

You could also argue that full cat-delete cars should get the boot - it’s not road-worthy. I’ve seen enough cars get tickets for no cats since the pigs (no offence to many fine officers, but these ones deserve it) know they can pick on that.

#11

Interesting point about the cats. Aren’t there some states/provs (AB comes to mind) where it’s ok to run without cats? Or at least where these is no emissions testing? Seems like it would be very jurisdiction dependent.

I think it’s a good point to at least think about. Although maybe I’m biased because it doesn’t make a difference in the rs4 with the JHM DPs haha

#12

I voted allow everything, to me it’s run what ya brung… However, it needs to be disclosed IE people need to be honest. You’ll never see me strip my interior and I’m certainly not in support of it on 99.9% of the Audi’s out there but if that’s your thing then go for it. It still helps show us how the car will perform with weight loss… I think the biggest issue with our list here is we don’t track DA which is huge… Just my .02

#13

Interesting comments. Problem with the ‘cat boot’ comment is that by the same definition, high-flow-cat cars should get the boot as they’re also not EPA road worthy and warrant tickets. Most HFC cars won’t pass a sniffer test. In fact in the most populous state in America, which is the same size as all of Canada, nothing is allowed unless it’s CARB certified, which almost nothing is. So by the road worthy definition, you’re eliminating the majority of the list.

The other side of that is that we’re not voting by what’s legal. We’re voting on a dragstrip database for roadgoing Audis that was created to be a benchmark for car owners to evaluate the effectiveness of modifications in a standardized acceleration testing environment.

The question regarding pulling seats and drag slicks was simple…neither represents a roadgoing Audi. Only a tiny fraction of the thousands of owners who look at our list would bother to pull their seats or run drag slicks to accelerate faster. However a huge portion of that group will mess with the catalytic converters (including your friend Primetime and your nemesis sakimano). I don’t think removing cat modified cars makes sense. Taking it further, in half the states and most provinces, there is ZERO emissions testing. So why are we eliminating cars from the list for being ‘road unworthy’ in a minority of the places in North America?

As for classifying slicks, if it’s street legal it’s probably OK. A Hoosier R6…is that really for a drag car? Or is that mostly for a track day or an autocross car? We’re really looking for wrinkle walled proper drag tires. But again, it’s up to you guys.

So far the voting is basically 13 people voting to eliminate slicks and/or stripped cars and 2 people voting to allow them.

#14

personally I would allow everything, as long as its disclosed.

the problem is when people don’t disclose all of their mods, even if it is weight reduction for example and they try to convince others that they have a faster car…

I have seen it time and time again, and it does not matter if you drive a 5 thousand dollar Honda or a half million dollar Lamborghini…

#15

I initially voted street trim only, BUT as others have pointed out maybe there should be a second list or the list could be color coded to reflect is a car has had interior removed.

#16

I don’t think slicks are a big deal. As far as weight reduction goes, where do you draw the line? Do you count a car that replaced front seats with OMP/Recaro carbon seats which weigh like 11 lbs a piece or is it strictly for people who run no front and rear passenger seats? Just saying, the switch to two front recaro carbons would be even more weight savings than just removing the OEM passenger seat which iirc is 70lbs. If it’s a debate about weight savings now, where does that leave the light weight wheels, carbon fiber body panels, light weight rotors/calipers and etc?

I also think it’s silly that race fuel is ok but slicks are not. Also where is the line for slicks because nitto makes Nt05 that some would argue is a track tire as it was designed for drag racing but it is also available for street use with a slightly less sticky NT555R which is still intended to be a drag radial.

I personally think that the list should be for everything in that platform, even swaps. I always assumed the point of the list was to show the capability of the chassis. You could define the weight reduction in notes, as either “NI” no interior, “WR” weight reduction for those who have swapped, seats hoods and etc or “rc” for people who have a full blown race car like that guy on AZ with the gutted Noggy. If it’s possible perhaps have people post copies of their time slips to their build threads as a way to reference exactly what is done to the car to Make those times. Put the onus on the person who ran the time to detail what was done to the car.

#17

we already have this. The details section says if they had slicks, or seats removed. Problem is there’s no real way to sort for it. The other problem is, is this really in the spirit of the list? That’s the main question really.

#18

I think I’m not explaining this very well.

If you have some fancy $5,000 lightweight seats, that’s just fine. The European RS4/5 have beautiful lw seats that save tons of weight. Do you go to work with NO seats though? Nope. So if you have no seats, that’s rice and that’s not an Audi, and that’s not really fit for the list.

[quote]I also think it’s silly that race fuel is ok but slicks are not. Also where is the line for slicks because nitto makes Nt05 that some would argue is a track tire as it was designed for drag racing but it is also available for street use with a slightly less sticky NT555R which is still intended to be a drag radial.
[/quote]
those would be semi slicks. Again, we can get technical on what tires qualify and what tires don’t if we want. The spirit of the rule would be pretty straightforward, so if it’s slick, it’s not going on the list. Street legal slicks are slicks…so they wouldn’t be on the list. It’s not hard to differentiate really. If you look at something like a Michelin Pilot Sport Cup tire, it’s right in the middle. I think those are fine, but again, this is stage 1. We can hash out what a slick is later.

#19

Regarding tyres, I think anything that is DOT approved is legit. Ultimately, you can choose to drive to work every day on them, even if it may be idiotic right now haha

#20

Problem with that is it doesn’t eliminate unrealistic slick times from the list does it…as some tire companies make slicks that are street legal so people can drive to the track on them and not have to lug a set of wheels and tools with them.

I think we need to adopt Supreme Court Justice Potter Stewart’s famous approach regarding defining pornography…

“I shall not today attempt further to define the kinds of material I understand to be embraced within that shorthand description; and perhaps I could never succeed in intelligibly doing so. But I know it when I see it”
Concurring, Jacobellis v. Ohio, 378 U.S. 184 (1964).

Same goes for a drag slick. There’s no formal definition or rule that determines what a slick is as a dot approved slick will sneak through, just as an artsy film with hardcore sex in it was able to escape the porn definition in the name of art.

So if a tire looks like a slick it’s a slick. If it’s a tire you put on just for the race but wouldn’t realistically drive the car on it, guess what… It’s not a street tire.