POLL: Drag slicks and seat/exhaust removal...do we want these times on the list?

Audi 1/4 mile, List & discussion forum
#32

you’re missing the point. Annoyingly.

NOBODY is daily driving these tires.

they’re buying them and putting them on their drag wheels. They’re driving to the strip. They’re running at the strip. They’re driving home, and removing them.

They’re slicks…but they’re DOT approved. You say they should be on the list because they’re dot approved. Then you say 'but slicks shouldn’t. The problem is the DOT list includes some slicks.

Using a DOT list creates a loophole. We go to the trouble of creating a rule, and then bang…rule is circumvented and useless. The spirit of the rule is what we’re trying to focus on. Not a beaurocrat’s definition of what is in the spirit of the rule. The point is there can be no drawn line. It’s a case by case basis. If something is a slick, I don’t care what the DOT says. It’s a slick. If something like the Nitto tire badtoyz is up for discussion, I think it’s fine. Michelin Pilot Sport Cup? Also fine, but slightly borderline. These hoosiers ? Give me a fucking break…

http://www.racetires.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/10/drag-radial.jpg

#33

I am not missing the point, I know exactly what you are saying, and I agree. Those street radials you linked are practically slicks and I wouldn’t consider those “street trim” either.

I am just saying that there ARE street radials that relate more to a street tire, than they do to the slicks. Like these MTs that I linked earlier: http://www.mickeythompsontires.com/street.php?item=SportsmanSR

#34

I think we are saying the same thing…

#35

Which of these are DOT approved and which ones are not? Which ones should be allowed for our list and which ones should not?

http://www.jegs.com/images/photos/500/522/522-17310.jpg

http://www.racetires.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/10/drag-radial.jpg

http://www.ityre.com/i/tyre/20514.jpg

http://image.superchevy.com/f/12679288+w640+h640+q80+re0+cr1+st0/sucp_0006_02_z%2Bstreet_legal_slicks%2B.jpg

http://image.superchevy.com/f/12155562+w640+h640+q80+re0+cr1+st0/sucp_0006_01_z%2Bstreet_legal_slicks%2B.jpg

http://www.corvetteforum.com/forums/attachments/autocrossing-and-roadracing/47694689d1334714095-new-kumho-ecsta-v710-track-competition-drag-radial-tires-for-179-00-v710a.jpg

http://www.stangtv.com/image/2014/12/img_9819.jpg

http://www.mandhdragtires.com/media/catalog/product/cache/1/image/9df78eab33525d08d6e5fb8d27136e95/c/h/cheater-slicks_2.jpg

#36

here’s what you actually said Jake. By this post, any street legal radial would be approved.

#37

I wouldn’t allow any of the tires you have pictured.

When I made that post I was referring to the types of tires that I have been linking, and that have been ignored. The ones that are not practically a slick .

#38

How about we draw the line at ‘no competition tires’ or nothing below or equal to ‘100 tread wear rating’ or something.

The latter requires a lot of effort though.

Tricky business is that some cars come from factory with ‘competition tires’ (like Pilot Sport Cup 2).

So then disallow tires with just a token stripe (vs actual treads)?

I don’t know, just thinking out loud.

#39

Every single tire picture is DOT legal, and is considered a ‘street legal drag radial’

You can see why I think that is a useless classification

#40

All I can say is unless it’s a drag tire, it will be shit on the strip. People going with R6s or trofeos or sport cups or RS-3s or other road race tires will not have any advantage at all because of stiff sidewalls. Someone with treaded ET streets like Jake showed will rape them. It’s all very subjective.

Are we basing the judgement on it being a drag-speciality tire or not? Ie the NT555R nitto is a drag tire. Or if it’s a “slick” in general?

I agree with the case-by-case basis, I guess, it seems to fit the spirit of the board to put things up for discussion and judgement lol. Our list should fit the board.

And to start the voting, we should poll specifically for the slicked b8 s4 cars - and to those I vote no.

#41

‘let’s have an argument’

Always gets things started nicely.

Those B8s were both on total drag slicks, no debate really. The only grey area will be the ‘cheater slicks’ that qualify for street car bracket nights at NHRA tracks but are in reality a full on drag tire in disguise. The category name says it all.

The cars I can think of are the 2 B8 S4s, the APR RS4 1740, jason@jhm’s 11.1 b5 s4 k04 time (no exhaust) and a couple of other jo interior times (auditude4.2 11.46 although they have an 11.49 with the seat so that’s no loss as they’re both second place for B8)

There’s a few other legacy B5 s4 times. I can search for ‘interior’ or ‘seats’ in the other modifications category to find the no seats guys. And of course ‘slicks’ or ‘drag tires’

If anyone can see any others on the list let me know.

Bottom line is everyone is losing a time (all the big companies) so it’s not a witch hunt or unfair. I think it’s a good standard.

As an rs4 owner it was cool when an rs4 was the fastest audi on the list but it never felt right with slicks and gutted. Definitely a hollow victory. Good thing about that car was Apr also ran it in street trim. (10.60 vs 11.1 though!).

Good to see a bunch of other cars (jhm RS4 , Apr RS7, apr TTRS etc) go just as fast with full interior and street trim. Much more interesting.

#42

why don’t we blacklist specific tires. the list wont be that big and then its very black and white, if u use this tire u don’t get on the list.

every tire u posted a pic of above should be disqualified. the et radial is also too much like a slick to qualify. the nt555r is a toss up though.

#43

I agree that it should be a case by case basis. How about if it is a questioned by a member then the owner has to post a picture of the tires that were used to see if it looks like a slick for most of us to decide? That would be the end all of this debate.

Now what defines a slick is anything that looks like a mostly smooth tread surface across most of the tire. So those DOT approved drag radials that Jake posted before would be okay because they obviously have grooves molded in them for driving through the rain.

http://i232.photobucket.com/albums/ee301/deanscheidt/255-60-15DragRadials_zps8d2a729f.jpg

I personally don’t like the idea of specialty wheels/tires for just running at the dragstrip either but I feel like that would be harder to enforce.

#44

Yeah I think it will end up being a combo of what Badtoyz and Jimmy posted.

Basically we will have a no slicks rule, and will flesh that out with a list of examples of go and no go tires.

If someone has a tire not on the list it will be up for discussion. The problem is if people start voting along party lines (i.e. I have an XYZ tune and I want XYZ on top so I’m voting Joe with XYZ and his slickish tires are ok) it will cause issues.

#45

Interesting discussion. I think I’m convinced that this is a grey area. Another idea - allow all times ever on the one list. Then have a column called “HAIL MARY” where the options are Y/N. Set the list to default to “N” when it is viewed. Then we have the option of seeing all the Hail Mary runs.

#46

easy for you to say. You being the guy who doesn’t have to recode the page or rebuild the entire list.

besides, gutting your car and running slicks is ghetto.

#47

Didn’t say it would be easy, just wanted to know if it was an option.

Sounds like we’re moving towards a case by case type of scenario. I see what you mean when you say it’s hard to lay down hard and fast rules. I agree the key here is “spirit”. Like Mistro’s fastest all motor time - bunch of guys show up to a track, have fun and drive home again. No trailers, no wheel changes, no funny fuel.

#48

those tires there jimmy are as good as a slick I had them on my 5.0. they stick like snot to a screen door. that mickey Thompson et radial is a hell of a tire. guys can lift the front tires off the ground with those on.

#49

To bad you can’t have 2 categories 1- Street legal. 2- Experimental.

You need the experimentals too be encouraged so people and groups who are pushing the limits do so, seeing effects of weight reduction, exhaust, etc. But while those numbers don’t reflect real world, they are important to the improvement of the platform.

Then the other data point that tells the general, street legal owner what they can do to go fast.

So tires, cats, airbag removals, etc. would be determined by legality. If it isn’t legal in even one state, then it’s on the experimental list.

#50

by that definition, almost no modifications for Audis would be allowed since the market is so small and virtually nobody carb certifies (thus illegal in california)

as has been discussed, nobody is saying you can’t run with your seats removed or with drag slicks. Have at it. The results will be discussed, and will be added to the audizoo list since Arin runs it and APR’s only stage 3 runs worth telling us about were with drag slicks no seats no exhaust.

It just won’t be added to this list, based on the voting results which were 19-7 against that.

I think the whole point here is the spirit of the list…which is to identify what parts work well to make your Audi faster. Removing your interior is the equivalent to removing 250 lbs on some Audis. Is that even possible with weight loss? Adding slicks is the equivalent of gaining about 1.5-2 tenths in the first 100 feet of the track, setting you up for incredible ET. Is that even possible with anything else? Removing your exhaust chops 50-75 lbs from the car, and creates a zero restriction exhaust that is IMPOSSIBLE to replicate…again, is there any merit in having that on the list?

If you want to demonstrate the effects of weight, ADD weight. Marc (10secS4) did this with sand bags a few years ago. Eventually adding 900 lbs to his car to show the effects on acceleration of weight. I don’t think we need to revisit that to get an understanding of weight reduction will do for you. It’s around 1 tenth for every 100 lbs.

#51

Allow it all. I’ve run my car with drag slicks and with street tires and there was no change in the 60’ for a low 12 second all wheel drive car. There are plenty of “Sticky” street tires out there, once you open that can of worms where do you stop. My Hoosier DR2 tires are DOT approved, does that make them street tires or slicks. The same goes for a RE-71 Toyo 888 etc.