Powershifting

General Discussion
#1

I have a 2000 A6 4.2 with 6speed swap (01e), S8 engine parts, and JHM tune.

I have read different accounts of what exactly powershifting is. From what I can gather, the gas pedal is held down to the floor during the entire run, even when shifting. It was not clear if you need to depress the clutch or not, to shift.

  • What is the best way to powershift on the 01e A6 4.2?
  • What parts are at risk of damage from powershifting?
  • Does anyone have any powershifting horror stories?

And on a related note, how much on the 0-60 will you save with JHM launch assist? I am finding that I am getting a pretty good launch without assist at about 3500rpm. How much does the LA improve 0-60 and 1/4 mile times on the S4 cars with dps, JHM tune, intake manifold, etc.?

Thanks!

#2

You use the clutch. Better miss a gear though. A WOT box would make it easier. It’s very hard on the syncros

#3

Hey, thanks for the tips. I will have to find out if my current JHM tune has the no-lift feature in it already.

#4

It doesn’t.

#5

there is no no-lift shift feature on the JHM tune

Powershifting is an instant clutch stab while changing gear, without lifting off the gas. A super swift stab at the clutch where you don’t even go to the floor, just past the engagement point works best as you’re faster that way, and it’s less time not accelerating.

Hard on a few things. I don’t see any point in it on a daily driver. You might shave a tenth or something. Big deal.

#6

Ah, cool. Thanks for the clarification. After thinking things over I think Ill enjoy my car for a bit longer before trying this out. If the trans was due for a rebuild anyway, then it might be worth the risk. However, with it running smoothly at the moment, it is probably not a good idea. It would be nice if there were a risk free way to practice, but it doesnt sound like there is. Looks like an ‘all or nothing’ kind of deal.

#7

I’ve laughed for a long time abkut the no lift shif crap. If you can powershift and let it be noted very few can then there is going to be a big performance gain as the gain is how quick you shifted. Not how qu8ck you went wot…

You need to see someone really powershift once you see that it will be an eye opening experence and you will soon see no lift isnt even in the same category

If you need a soft revlimmit this is all no lift shift is or no lift…Iif you need that function your notbshifting fast enough. The amout of time the car takes to rebkund from being on a 7000 soft rev limmit is going to take longer then if you just let off tje gas shifted and got back on the gas.

Sitting at 7000 wot and then trying to shift the car is going to be murder on the syncros. There is zero bwnnifit to the addition of no lift shift. If you cant switch the gears faster then the rpms can climb powershift your just using the same time you would normally be using

#8

Thanks for the explanation. I am getting around 5.9 on my 0-60 measurments. I looked at a VCDS log that I have, and found a couple things. First, I am spending about 1 full second on the 1-2 shift, from WOT to WOT. Second, I am hitting the rev limiter and the timing is being retarded, in between the shift. Third, When I shift at 7000rpm, I am ending up at over 4000 rpm in 2nd gear. So, I figure I can shave some time by 1) speeding up my shifts 2) shifting at around 6000 in first.

Now I just have to bug Saki to show me how to power shift :slight_smile:

#9

The b5 transmission sucks for the 1-2 shift the speed is too slow and the loadis to high. Check out na 4.2 manual gear ratios and you will see a better raito. Still no lift isnt going to fix any of your issies. The b5 s4 transmissions are known for bending the 1-2 shift collor on attekpted quick 1-2 shifts. Go look at your quickest 3-4 shift I bet its half the time of the 1-2…go check. …its all in the laod and gearing…its still you jeeding to shift better but the trans sucks for quick 1-2

#10

yup

and yup

#11

LOL. I think it is finally starting to sink in.

OK, well, aside from 0-60 and quarter mile measurements, it is not like you really need a quick, high rpm, 1-2 shift in daily driving. I am just trying to get some idea of the cars engine performance in relation to other vehicles. Also, I always hated the feel of the 1-2 shift, even under normal driving conditions. I tried a car with an updated shift collar, and I didnt feel it was much better.

So, can you correct the problem with the carbon synchros kits, or is it just a design flaw in the 01e that is impossible to remedy?

#12

one thing that helped with my car for the 1-2 shift was short shifting, anything over 6400rpm and 2nd would not engage. It would lock out until the revs dropped.

#13

I’m going to try that out. By the looks of things, I shouldnt be shifting over about 6000 anyway in first, since it puts me past a nice chunk of my powerband which starts at about 3200rpm.

#14

That’s where a dyno might come in handy to see your powerband curves.

#15

Agree that the b5 s4 1-2 shift sucks ass. Even in mild daily driving. I try my damndest to make smooth clean shifts and it seems next to impossible. I was genuinely surprised when I first drove the b5 6mt. For all its pluses and strengths that is a major minus with regard to my ownership satisfaction.

And I am surprised to learn ffs would only net a tenth or so on et?

#16

I actually have a dyno run from awhile ago when I first got the S8 parts installed. It is pretty low, however, because the intake manifold flaps werent working properly. And I think the engine overheated, and started pulling timing up top. Next time I will ice the manifold, as you suggested. Anyway, if anything the curve below about 4800 should stay around the same, but may end up higher now that the intake manifold is functioning properly.

http://gp1.pinkbike.org/p4pb9000626/p4pb9000626.jpg

You can see that there is some sort of bump around 3200rpm, and the curve is fairly flat up until 4800. Not sure what happened at 4800, but it likely was related to the intake manifold issue.

I am planning another dyno, but want to sort out the following three issues first:

  • Revs climbing between shifts (likely slowing my 1-2 shift down)
  • Violent bucking at low load part throttle from about 3000 to 4500rpm in first and second (mainly in first)
  • Lean AFR at WOT

Until my issues are sorted, I dont think there is any use in getting another dyno. When they are, maybe we could arrange a group session with Neetronics.

#17

Where was that dyno done?

#18

Neetronics

#19

Looks funky in two spots.

#20

Claudio usually organizes a day at Neetronics in May/June for a group price as part of his Vagkraft event.