[quote]Because of fueling? Can you explain what this means? Honest question.
Corbett on here, I think, posted something about the car being sold… I haven’t heard this anywhere else and if it’s true I’m completely baffled. It doesn’t make any sense but would love to know.
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With a turbo that flows so much, you quickly approach the knock limits of pump gas. Over there, they usually only do builds utilizing pump gas, hence the limitation.
I’d like to add my 2 cents to the discussion…
But first off, I’m and new to the VAG and B5 S4 communities. I have always had a thing for audis and especially the B5 S4. Recently I was fortunate enough to be able to purchase one. And while I’m not 18 my current income is nothing to brag about. So I wholeheartedly agree the argument that some people are making about the cars now being available to kids can cause an issue because of lower income and not wanting to spend money on good parts so a lot of the companies move away from the platform. This leave a big gap for a lot of people who want more but don’t have the means of DIYing it.
I went through this same thing about 10 years ago in the MR2 community. There was a big want for performance and a push for advancing the platform, but no companies would do anything about it. Also it was in roughly the same situation. Cost was down so it the cars were available to younger markets; and it was/is a platform that deals with the curse of a poor engine bay layout being mid mounted left little room for upgraded intercoolers, and other creative modification.
But what happened in the MR2 community was that a few DIYers steped up and got creative; Trunk mounted ICs, Homebrew turbo kits that turned into production units, Custom Intake manifolds, One of the best DIYers even made and IC that was cooled via the A/C.
So while the chassis is at a stagnant point in its life, I think it is in a decent spot for some of the DIYers out there to start thinking outside the box and really push what the platform can do. Because it seem that no one wants to be creative and try something new. Everyone only seems to want a cookie cutter solution to going fast, AKA Stage 3 stuff. But cookie cutter doesnt always work, and you may get a few cars that are just fast like the ones listed by Saki.
I think the availability of the STK parts that 034 is hopefully going to help with some people and getting new and fresh thinking into the community, or the project like BritishTurbo’s over on AZ. He really seem like he wants to push forward and advance the platform.
Or what about research and development into cams? I have seen in a few different platforms where there were no aftermarket cams available but a few members of the community went and sought out companies to grind them, then they were a huge hit, and the companies started carrying them as an on the shelf part. Cams could be a great step and fairly cost effective to really add a boost to the community.
And while I know it will never go away the He said She said BS of who better and who can and cant put up numbers is old. Every company has fan boys and will defend them to their last breath even with no proof. So the debate I see of EPL vs the world and how they dont have anything to back up their claims, well just stop listening to it then they will either go away or maybe finally provide proof. (And to those associated with EPL, dont mind me. I know nothing of your company, your tunes, the cars you build. I am not trying to deface you, your products, or your abilities. The example is just very prevalent so I used it.)
So I think there are some great ideas out there. I have plenty of my own, I just dont have the resources right now to make them a reality. And I’m sure there are other in the same boat as I am. So people need to get away from “cants” or “that will never work” and move towards giving people support to new ideas. And if those ideas fail then they fail, but if they are a success it may be the game changer for the platform.
And that’s my 2 cents…
-Matt
All good input Matt. I think it makes a lot of sense.
When I first started watching the b5 world, the cars were still $20,000 and people were comfortable investing in them. Lots of people plunked down $8,000 to go stage 3.
Now it seems the builds are more about keeping the car alive, rather than pushing the envelope. Lots of stage 3 minus cars running around on stock downpipes and intercoolers, or with a K03 tune, or stock fuelling. Hardly a recipe for progress.
Still, it’s interesting to see the JHM car suddenly vault into the spotlight. Only thing is the real problem with the platform, reliability, is it’s biggest pain in the ass. The JHM car was at the strip last year (15 months ago now I think actually) and went 10.8 @ 130…with a malfunctioning throttle body. The car got fixed and then about 9 other things broke over the course of a year. Not the proverbial axles that everyone is terrified of, but just little annoyances, typical of an old German car.
2 weeks ago they hit the strip and the car had an EGT problem after the 1/8th. They did rip off some insane 1/8 mile passes though, trapping 106 or so (they trapped 103 when they went 10.8 last year).
[quote]Only thing is the real problem with the platform, reliability, is it’s biggest pain in the ass.
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You’re 100% right about this. I do love audi but just like every other German manufacture they over complicate simple systems. And that’s one reason why I’m in love with the single turbo setups. its make the puzzle that much smaller and simpler to allow for more.
[quote]When I first started watching the b5 world, the cars were still $20,000 and people were comfortable investing in them. Lots of people plunked down $8,000 to go stage 3.
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I started watching the cars around the same time, maybe even before and I remember being just when the APR stage 3 came onto the market. I was awestruck by the kit and more so by the price. But now as I’ve grown its seems hard to justify the cost, the hardware really can’t be that expensive. And while I will probably stir something up with this comment, that where the Frankenturbos are great, you can now do a stage 3 care for $3500-4000. Go to the JFonz site and turbos, inlets, and fueling is like $3400. Granted I’m not sure of the quality or longevity of those turbos but its half the price for possibly a little bit more performance than what you got out of the APR stage 3 Kit. So its moves like that that are going to help stimulate growth in the platform.
[quote]Now it seems the builds are more about keeping the car alive, rather than pushing the envelope. Lots of stage 3 minus cars running around on stock downpipes and intercoolers, or with a K03 tune, or stock fuelling. Hardly a recipe for progress.
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This is what needs to change. This is where, like I said earlier, the “cants and wonts” need to go away. People need to embrace new ideas even if 9 out of 10 will fail. That 1 that doesnt may be that game changer
Just curious…what did the MR2 world rely on for proof of a concept working?
dynos?
quarter mile times and timed acceleration data?
It was mainly dyno number. Breaking down the barriers that people say weren’t reachable with certain parts and such. It’s been a while since I was involved though so my memory is foggy.
Their performance at the strip always seemed lacking to me. A few cars seemed to fall into the same boat of lots of power but not propelling the cars down the quarter where similarly weighted and powered cars ended up. There was a black car that made ~700 whp I think that was just scratching the 9s. It was the first thing I thought of when I saw Guruman’s build and his quest for time.
But the community as a whole was pretty divided (not in a bad way) of how people used their cars. So it wasn’t always a huge power game as much as trying to reinvent the wheel game. Because auto-Xers wanted this and drag racers wanted that. I was more just reminded of the community because of its bought with a stagnant spot.
The only real upgrades when I first got into the cars were a Greddy TD06 kit and Greddy Side Mount IC. And that was what you did to make I think 350whp. But then others came along and made new turbo kits with more options, the 2.2 and 2.3 stroker motors came about and it just snowballed the community in development. The. V6 swaps into them, then bigger V6 swaps. Then forced induction on those V6s.
And so if some one or some company could just start that snowball rolling I think the B5 community has a lot of room to grow. That’s why it reminded me of the MR2 community so much.
So you can kind of argue progress vs creativity because some of it was side steps and not always forward. But it was still growth. And it’s because people got away from “can’t and won’t work” to “that sounds cool, now lets see you pull it off”
The mr2 and the b5 owners are two differejt packs. The b5 tends fo be more engeneer type and the mr2 is more grass roots type. The engeneer types cant stand to be wrong so even when they are wrong no one ever gets the truth
Then you have the scam and rip off artists like jfonz and his china copy friends. They take tunes and parts akd copy them so the platform will adnvance then you have tial and there clan of supporters that are not getting results but comver it up in every fashion they can… its a lip stick on a pig…
Then you have tje jhm and 034 top shops with top performance. Both the cheep kids amd tial guys bash so they dont feel stuipd for tuere purschase and the cheep kids can keep living the lie that stolen tunes amd jardware advance anything… the cheep kids akd companys …if yiu can even call selling parts out of yur moms house a biz …selling china parts are the same people that have shown chna turbos blow akd are cheep
Its been said before. The only thing that has advanced are the insults and excuses or as i said orignally.The only things that are advanceing is the billsht that is being fed to these people…
The b5 is a collection of crazy ego mainacx with small to non actually looking to advancd anything but there e statous
That’s the problem. People need to get off their high horses, and encourage new ideas instead of mocking them
I regret getting into this whole B5 S4 thing. This is one dream I should not have followed. I should have got an old fox body Mustang 5.0 or Mark VII LSC and went nuts with that.
Ruh-Roh, trouble in paradise with your build? Be patient, it will get done and you will be very happy
I think you followed exactly what you sought after and it will be rewarding once everything is done.
You honestly just need to find a couple of competent local s4 guys (not a shop) to finish up the very small amount that is left with your build… If I lived closer, like a few hours or less, I would help you out…
Zero, where are you from?
He is somewhere in Florida…
Impressive.
I have to admit, B5 S4 progress really hasn’t gotten anywhere even now with the 034 STK IMO.
After having my turbo E36, and being a little more into the turbo BMW scene it’s clear the B5 S4 is a lacking platform. It’s either too many people wanting mediocre performance due to costs or little to no new innovation from shops and individuals.
After stepping back I think the best thing for the B5 S4 is still the K04 based turbo. It’s cost/performance ratio cannot be beat especially with the likes of FT in the game now and other SMIC solutions. You can have a relatively fast and solid car if you go that route and I think most people feel the same as far as it being the “safe” choice.
Where as with the BMW world since the cars aren’t already turbo you have guys going from mild to all out. Yet even the mild stock motor builds are FAR faster then any B5 S4 psi for psi.
I do miss my B5, it was civil and nice to drive under most circumstances that you would encounter on the road. But if I were to build one again, it would probably be K04 based because trying to push it beyond that is just too much money for what you get IMO and the performance is proven.
[quote=“EYEspI,post:70,topic:4022”]
Nobody wants to work on the car. The community itself is very problematic with a few exceptions. A lot of in-fighting, arguing, name-calling, suspicions. It’s unsettling. I picked a car that mechanics see as a “red-headed step child” (pardon the meaningless phrase) and the support communities online are very shaky.
[quote=“Monty23,post:72,topic:4022”]
I agree with you. Shops are too busy to make “normal” customers wait for them to finish a car that apparently takes four times as long to work on as others. I’d probably do the same thing if I owned a shop. Put the “pain in the ass car” to the side and get all my other jobs done. It makes sense - but it sucks for the owner of the pain in the ass car.
[quote=“Luvshok,post:73,topic:4022”]
I’m in Palm Beach County, Florida.
[quote=“Zero_Tolerance,post:78,topic:4022”]
Yeah that’s a little out of my reach at the moment 
not sure why he needs anything? Someone’s installing meth and a bunch of other shit in his car. Then it will be tuned.
From the looks of it, his car was built, then the clutch blew, and rather than replace the clutch and get a tune going, a whole bunch of stuff, including a water/meth injection system was thrown into the mix. Now the tuner has to start from the ground up and tune around the meth (assuming). The hardware needs to be installed at the shop…just takes time. Oh, and it was Christmas/New Years in there as well lol.