Project Audi V10 5.2 performance. S6 / S8

A8 All/ S8 All
#13

Let’s start getting to the good parts. The performance parts.

One of the best single parts you can put on the V10 motors. Is the JHM intake spacers. We all know the V10 heat is such a big deal. That heat is the single cause for numerous issues from pre-aging gaskets and other parts to robbing power and the overall drawbacks of just having too much heat.

The JHM spacers are a simple but well-proven part. These have been around and used not just by JHM but by actual race teams to do the same task. The spacers have been used for years in the Audi market to help drastically reduce heat and help return performance.

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If you’re talking about performance or just general ownership. The spacers really are a must when you pull the intake to do a carbon clean.

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There are several things I like about the spacers. An additional thing I like on top of all the performance and other gains is that the JHM spacers actually work. They help seal the intake manifold from what I have seen. So, in my opinion, I see a better seal from the intake manifold to the heads as the JHM spacers make a nice fit and seal really well. This cuts down on the dreaded V10 misfire from intake leaks.

The only real note is to make sure to remove some of the motor pull assembly brackets when you install AND DO NOT REINSTALL THEM. If you try to reinstall the motor brackets you will get interference with the motor arm once the spacers are installed.

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#14

I thought now would be a good time to give a quick how-to on getting the intake manifold off. This can be used to get to a carbon clean or better yet the install of the JHM intake spacers.

Paul F started a How - to C6 S6 and basically S8 intake manifold Removal how to. Since paul sold his S6 to get an RS6 I thought I’d take what he started and add to it for this section of my thread with some expansions.

Below is a combination of Paul F and myself on how to do the following. Paul’s original thread can be found here
http://audirevolution.net/forum/index.php?topic=3221.0

First - here are the tools you will need:

3/8 or 1/2" drive ratcheting wrench
1/4" drive ratcheting wrench
1/4" Drive Torx T30 (picture later)
Long bit Torx T30 (I used 1/4" drive - picture later)
Short (normal) bit Torx T30 (I used 3/8" drive)
M8 Triple Square/12 Point
M10 Triple Square/12 Point
10mm Wrench/Spanner (stubby is better)
14mm Wrench/Spanner
17mm Wrench/Spanner
Needle Nose Pliers
Flat Screwdriver
Precision (tiny) flat screw driver (for clips)
Extendable magnet

Before you start - repeat the following 10 times: “I will not drop any screws.” I haven’t (yet), but it’s not like an old Nissan - every screw is important!

Another thing to note is that a lot of these screws are aluminium, so be sure your bit is well seated, that there’s no debris in the screw head, and use lubricant before excessive force. If you do strip one, you can hammer the next size Torx into the hole and the material is soft enough to allow a new imprint to be made.

Give yourself about 2 hours.

Step 1 - Take off engine covers. One at the front, one at the back. Remove intake pipes between the manifold and air filters.

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The passenger side air intake is a little more tricky to take off and will require some time. There are two PCV attachments to the inlet pipe that are on the back side and they’re very hard to get to.

Here is the picture of the motor with the covers off. We’ll be looking at the passenger side. Egnore the yellow square box. That was in the picture for something else. Just take note of the passenger side inlet pipe comming from the air box to the throttle body.

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When you look down the back side of the intake pipe you will see two PCV lines attached to the inlet. Take care pulling these off. They are prone to break and are usually brittle.

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Quick Tip: If you pull these off when the motor is hot the intake will be a little softer and that helps the fittings come off a little bit easier.

Once off this is what it looks like.

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Note the connections location on the intake tube after you remove them. Also, the lines are not very long at all so, you don’t have a lot of room to pull on them.

Quick Tip: keep careful note of the coolant Y located right in the path of where you’re working. Remove that from the expansion tank and move out of the way. If the car is still warm be careful of coolant pressure.

Step 2 - Unclip the wiring harness on the left side. Unclip the two clips circled in red. You don’t need to remove the ground wire circled in green. The two arrows point to clips attached to the fuel lines. Gently pull these off. Lift the wiring harness over the fuel pump to the left side and leave there.

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Step 3 - Do the same on the other side. There are no fuel line clips on the right side.

Step 4 - Remove the PCV vent hose from the left-hand side (squeeze and pull). You need to remove it from the valve cover and from the oil separator. Move the hose out of the way. You can leave the right side connected. Put a rag or something to block debris from going into the opening in the valve cover.

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Step 5 - Remove the valve/hose. Squeeze the clamp with the pliers and pull the hose up.

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Step 6 - Remove the ‘air distribution housing.’ There are 8 Torx T30 bolts holding it to the manifold. You will also need to remove the bracket connecting the oil separator to the right-hand side throttle body. Remove the two M8 12-pt bolts on the throttle body and the Torx T30 on the oil separator.The housing should now lift away. It may be a good idea to replace the bolts onto the throttle body so you don’t lose them.

Quick Tip: most people don’t like to put back the oil separator mount to the throttle body. That is fine as it makes for easier service. Just remember to put the bolts back into the throttle body as listed above.

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Step 7 - Remove the oil separator. There’s very little clearance between the firewall and the oil separator, so this is where you will need your 1/4" ratchet and 1/4" drive Torx T30. Remove the bolts (be careful not to drop the bottom one), and pull/push the oil separator towards the firewall to remove it.

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Step 8 - Fuel lines. The factory service manual says to remove the fuel lines and the fuel pumps, but I found this wasn’t necessary. Nonetheless, you must remove one line and loosen the others in order to free the manifold. We’ll do this step now so you can let the fuel drain out while you do the rest. I was expecting these lines to be under high pressure, but they weren’t. Put a rag around the connection as you loosen it in order to soak the fuel. When you do the rear connection, be aware that more fuel will come from here than from the pump connection

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Now loosen the two lines on the left-hand side, at the pump only.

Step 9- Now move to the front of the intake manifold. Remove this little hose and move out of the way.

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Step 10- Remove the module at the front left of the manifold. sort of a vac sensor - It controls the air box flaps and ties into the SAI system. Unplug the connector, the two hoses, and then remove the bracket it is attached to. One 10mm bolt and one Torx T30 hidden underneath. To remove the 10mm nut, use the stubby wrench, rather than a socket. Using a socket will cause you to foul the hose barb sticking off towards the right, and you don’t want to break it.

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10b - remove the engine lifting brackets. Otherwise, this will foul the manifold when you try to remove and cause issues once the intake spacers are installed. The engine lifting brackets are to be fully removed and not put back in. 2x Triple square/12pt M10

“You will also want to remove wiring harness bracket from the studs on the driver side head. You can secure the wires with a zip tie so they stay out of the way of the flap arms. This is because the brackets can interfere with your flap arms and give you the
following codes:

008196 - Intake Manifold Flap; Bank 1
P2004 - 002 - Stuck Open - MIL ON

008197 - Intake Manifold Flap; Bank 2
P2005 - 002 - Stuck Open - MIL ON”

.
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Step 11. You’re going to need to remove the intake manifold bolts. You’ll need a longer neck tool for this as there is little room to get to most of the bolts. It’s also a good idea to make sure you have a magnet to help pull out the bolts once you’ve loosened them. There are 6 bolts on each side of the intake. This picture shows you their location and also the next step. That’s removal of the passenger side HPFP.

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Loosen all the bolts and remove them with your extendable magnet. It will be hard to get to some with your fingers, and you may need a friend to wiggle the manifold and fuel lines to help you free a couple of them. Be careful when removing the rear screws - DO NOT DROP THEM. The rear left one has the highest danger of dropping into never-never land.

Once you have the 12 bolts removed from the intake, you’ve removed the fuel lines and HPFP out of the way the intake manifold will be able to move but will still be unable to come out.

You’ll need to unplug all the sensors and plugs on the front of the intake. Due to the reduce ability to see these plugs with the front end of the car on and overall the reduced space to even unplug these plugs, I have a picture of what the intake and the plugs look like from the front of the car with the front end off.

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Quick Tip: I put the bracket bolt location in this picture to help suggest removal of these bolts. This will help in getting these sensors off the intake.

Once you’ve removed all the bolts, the brackets, plugs, fuel lines and passenger side HPFP you’ll be ready to pull out the intake manifold. The best method is to slightly pull the intake manifold forward rotate the intake clockwise as you pull up and out the intake. With the passenger side HPFP off, you’ll use that side to pull the intake to when you pull it out.

When you’re done you’ll be left with it looking like this.

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Quick Tip: take notes of the cap off points for the fuel and for the HPFP location. Lots of people run into issues when they put the cars back together. They get debris in the fuel lines and that can take out an injector. Capping off the fuel lines is a good practice.

DIY - How-To: C6 S6 Intake Manifold Removal & Carbon Clean
#15

As I mentioned above. The JHM intake spacers made a huge impact on lowering the overall underhood temps along with giving better cooler intake temps.

Some of the exciting things I’ve done are

The JHM intake spacers - check we talked about those a few posts above.
Carbon clean - talked about that - http://audirevolution.net/forum/index.php?topic=4000.0
Up-date plugs and coil packs. - Did that earlier in the thread.
Compression test - Did this earlier in the thread.
Cylinder inspection - Did this earlier in the thread
Intake manifold inspection - Did this earlier in the thread

Coming soon…

The JHM Lightweight crank pulley - almost 9lbs of weight savings.
The JHM Lightweight brake rotors front and back - weight savings you wouldn’t believe
JHM beta ECU and TCU tune.
Full custom 3" exhaust
SAI removal - coming soon with the crank pulley
Fuel filter - part of the oil change and fluid assessment.
Oil change and fluid assessment.

After all, that I show the tract tested results from all the above work.

#16

Now back to the performance parts of the build. Last time we talked about the JHM intake spacers and their ability to help keep the 5.2 V10 heat issues in check. While the spacers are helpful at keeping the motor cooler and more efficient the motor could also beit from shedding some of that unnecessary weight strapped to the front end of the crankshaft.

Installing LW parts onto the rotational assembly of the motor for performance gains are not new. This has been around since people have been hot rodding cars. Things like underdrive pulleys and lightweight pulleys have been a big part of the performance must do’s. We all know the huge gains seen with adding an LW flywheel if you have a manual car. We have a huge TQ converter strapped to the back of our motors filled with several quarts of transmission fluid and since we obviously can’t remove that we now look to the front of the motor and the crank pulley.

Why would you want to remove and replace your crank pulley? Simple, if you want to see the science behind this go cut a piece of string just over 2 feet long. Then from there tie a 10lb weight to the end of that same string and see if you can swing that 10lb weight in front of you like a propeller of an airplane. If you even can swing it, try to keep it going at a constant speed, then after a few seconds try to swing it as fast as you can. It will take a large amount of effort to get the speed of the weight to accelerate. After you did this replace the 10lb weight with a 2lb weight and repeat. The results will be drastically different. You’ll be able to speed up and control the 2lb weight and its spinning speed much easier and with more acceleration on demand.

That’s the crappy roadside simplistic explanation. The physics behind rotational weight reduction are sound and impactful. The JHM LW crank pulley allows the motor to spin up faster and with less work. It allows for much less resistance in rotational acceleration of the motor RPM. This results in a much more eager throttle response out of the motors acceleration and its simple.

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You’re dropping almost 9lbs off the front of the crankshaft.

So, for those of you who don’t know where this is or what it looks like. Let me show you.

Here are all the important things I reference where they’re located and what they look like.

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You’re going to have to pull the front end of the car off to replace your crank pulley. While I was in there I decided to remove the SAI system. SAI stands for Secondary Air System. It’s the system that turns on in cold weather to help your cats heat up quicker. The downside is the car tends to run rougher on cold starts when it’s activated and over time people have seen terrible carbon build up in the SAI valves. So, for me, I just removed it. Keep in mind unless you have a JHM tune doing this would result in a CEL the first time the SAI system is required to turn on.

Back to the pulley install. For me, the JHM LW crank pulley was a no brainer. It’s like doing the intake spacers when you do the carbon clean. You’re going to be in there anyway, you might as well put in the spacers while you’re there.

I was replacing my OEM belt that looked to be original and also looking to service my belt tensioner. The belt tensioners like to freeze up over time so, I would pull off the belt, take off the tensioner and lube it. While I was in there I added the LW crank pulley.

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The stock crank pulley is definitely heavy. Even if you don’t have to replace the belt it might not be a bad idea on replacing the crank pulley. The B6 and B7 S4’s had issues with these failing and the B8 S4s are known to have their crank pulleys fail.

As mentioned, while I was doing the maintenance I decided to remove my SAI system.

Here is a picture of all the other hardware removed. You can clearly see what lines are the SAI lines. They tap into the front of the cylinder heads.

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You can’t just pull the SAI lines off and not cap them. Or you’ll have exaust gas coming out the front of your cylinder heads. So, I quickly cut and welded the ends off the SAI lines.

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If anyone wants more pictures on the SAI removal let me know. I removed the pump and the valves that were located off to the side.

After the SAI lines were off and I made the caps I started putting everything back on again. Making sure to use Locktite on the crank bolts and using a nice white lithium lube on the belt tensioner.

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The crank pulleys on the 4.2 S4 and S5 are just like our crank pulley on the 5.2. They are counter weighted and that’s something serious. The money in the pulleys is in the balancing of the pulleys to make sure they have the right counter weight.

Years and years ago when this came out for the 4.2 S4 a few people would try to make the argument that putting an LW pulley on would cause issues. Well, there been no issues with the 4.2 S4 or S5 after 10 years and after several motor teardowns for built motors in the 4.2 there was no sign of any bearing issues. As a matter of fact there seemed to be less bearing wear on cars with LW crank pulleys over OEM units.

For fun, I did a crude test to show there was no change in NVH. I did the oldschool water on the intake test.

1800rpm

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3200rpm

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from 3200 back to idle.

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There are huge offset weight tolerances in the OEM pulleys where the JHM units are balanced with precision balancing. I actually noticed a smoother idle and lower knock voltages when crusing with the JHM LW pulley.

#17

GIVE ME A BRAKE… Next phase in the performance journey, was to replace my squeaking worn out brakes.

There are several options when it comes to just replacing the OEM rotors. For me, I’ve seen lots of guys go the cheap option and you get what you pay for. Cheap rotors tend to use cheap material that wears out quicker and doesn’t seem to offset the cost in the long run.

For me, I really want to bring out the supercar in my super car. So, the search for performance rotors started and as usual as most of you know there was nothing. So, I called the guys at JHM and asked what they could do. They have performance rotors for just about every other platform why not us. The S8 and S6 front rotors are the same on our cars so its like one big market.

I wanted a lighter more performance oriented rotor that would help drop some rotational weight while pulling out the heat and helping with pad life. Heck, if the Lambo gets performance rotors, that dissipate heat and weigh less, why don’t we right?

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BOOM I saved 30lbs of not just weight but rotational weight. That’s a 15lb weight reduction EACH SIDE, while adding a huge drop in breaking temps. That’s more than some light weight rims offer and at a fraction of the cost of lightweight rims.

The added great part is way-way down the line when it comes time to replace the rotors again, you just need to order the rings. Ording the rings will save you quite a bit of money. The rotors cost a bit more due to being two piece and being that their performance rotors. Being two piece has several advantages if you really want to track the S6 you can just get an extra set of rings for the track like lots of the road race guys like to do.

I’m not a huge cosmetic guy but even these OEM rotors look underwhelming.

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The other thing l didn’t like about the stock rotors was the fact that the rotor was just a little bigger than the pad surface needed to be. So, this resulted in my rotor having a huge lip on it from where the pads had worn away the material. It made getting the heavy OEM rotors out quite a chore.

Now putting on the JHM rotors. Very easy a straight forward job. The addition of the slotted feature that comes with the JHM rotors is not just great to help in braking performance, but I think it looks nice as well.

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To me, it’s hard to beat adding performance while doing maintenance. Nothing is real exciting about doing a brake job, except when you know you’re dropping weight, adding performance and helping make things look just a little better at the same time. It’s a win win win.

#18

This week we drop another 10lbs off the rolling weight of the car with the JHM rear rotors and I walk quickly through what you’re going to need to do with vag com to be able to get the rear breaks off.

Yes, you read that right. You can’t do rear breaks on these cars without the help of the computer. So, when you’re doing brakes keep that in mind. You’re in good hands here though, I post at the bottom on what you’re going to have to do to open the rear brakes.

Now on to the thread.

I did the front brakes and dropped over 30lbs between the two of them. Each side I was able to drop 15lbs with the JHM LW rotors.

With that big impact, I thought it would be time to drop a little weight from the rear rotors. Again using the JHM rear rotors.

These not only look great but they function better than the OEM units and they weigh 5lbs less each.

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With the JHM rear rotors, you’re knocking off another 5lbs a side. For rear rotors, that’s a lot of weight. You normally don’t see that kind of weight reduction in rear rotors. The front brakes do the majority of the work so the rear brakes don’t need to be as big. Still, it’s a good area to shave weight when you can.

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With all this weight savings I actually saved a ton of money. Usually to get these kinds of weight savings you have to get light weight rims. Since the S8 comes with 20" rims stock. It’s kinda hard to find nice light weight 20" sport rims.

Oh, and if you’ve ever wondered how much the OEM S8 rims and tires weigh.

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That’s a lot of weight for rims and tires.

Now for the technical part of the post. Most of you might not know but you can’t just jump onto the rear rotors like you can the fronts. The rear rotors with the electronic parking break require the use of a computer to unlock and open the rear brake caliper.

If you’re a DIY’er 90% of the brake job is going to be the same the rear brakes come off easy without much fuss but when you need to open the caliper you’re going to need a computer. If you have a vag com I’ll show you what you have to do.

EASY STEP 1

Open vag com and select the “SELECT Control Module” option

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STEP 2

Select option #53 - Parking Brake

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STEP 3

With the Parking Brake controller open click on the - 04 Basic Settings

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STEP 4

In Basic Settings open the drop down menu and click on Open Rear Parking Brake

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STEP 5

You might have to still help open the piston manually. Clicking on Open Rear Parking Brake doesn’t necessarily open the piston all the way. You might have to open it to the specific spot you need to place on the pads. Now is when you would push back the piston on the caliper as far as you need and put in the pads. After the pads are on and the caliper is back on and in its place. You’re ready for the next step

STEP 6

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That will get you all set. Some people like to do the Parking Brake Function test. I never found a need for it. That’s there if you have an issue and you’re checking the function of the system.

This walkthrough works for most cars with rear parking brake systems.

Now with all the weight lost from the JHM Rotors, you’re car will be transformed into a lighter fighter. All in all, it’s a mod worth doing. The rear rotors don’t get changed that often so this mod should last you years and years and years before you’re going to even need to think about replcement of the rings.

#19

Getting further along in the Performance build of project V10 5.2. The next biggest step is the exhaust.

The big thing with exhausts is that you can do it wrong lose power and still sound ok. Many people have been scammed by just buying an expensive sounding stock sized Catback exhaust. Not all exhausts are created equal. The size of the exhaust can make or break the improvement factor of the exhaust. I’ve read many fancy exhaust shops and companies post about how building an exhaust isn’t some black magic. The reality of that statement is that those companies or people who don’t know how to get more power and quality out of an exhaust system don’t know how much they’re losing. In other words, some companies and or people just don’t know what they don’t know.

When it comes to exhaust systems for the Audi 5.2 V10 most of the past offerings have been a complete rip-off. The S6 5.2 exhausts have been an adapted A6 4.2 exhaust system. The Aftermarket 5.2 V10 exhaust sizes have been a complete joke and frankly have been taking advantage of people’s lack of knowledge about their cars.

There was a company that offered an X pipe for the S8 V10. Frist off the size was too small for real performance but let’s forget about that for a second. The biggest scam here is, that the S8 V10 5.2 exhaust system already has an X pipe. What a rip off that was.

So, the next question is other than sound do we really want an exhaust system for our cars? Well, we bought V10 cars for fun and performance. A real performance exhaust doesn’t have to be loud and obnoxious. My exhaust system is 3" and I’ll put up video of the in cabin noise, you hear more road noise than exhaust tone. You’d almost not know there’s an exhaust. The truth be told 2.75" is perfect for these cars, it adds that euro tone and makes in cabin noise more controllable. It’s also good for about 200hp over what the stock exhaust system flows.

One last thing to think about before I get too far into my post. Adding things like air filters help the motor breath better on the intake side. It allows easy flow of the outside air into the intake manifold. We all know that the motor pulls in outside air when the piston is on the intake stroke where it pulls in air by creating a void. But did you know that the headers and Catback actually pull in and act in pulling in more air than the motor itself?

Now onto the actual post. Knowing how much hp can be gained I decided to do some testing and take it one step at a time to see just how much more power I would be able to pull out of the V10 by just messing with the exhaust.

Note- the S8 exhaust is where the bulk of the power gain is over the S6. The S6 will actually gain more power than the S8 as the S8 exhaust isn’t as restrictive. While the S8 exhaust is still restrictive the S6 exhaust is just terrible stock.

We have a thread dedicated to this but if you haven’t seen it before. The S6 exhaust is on the bottom. Look at how the piping isn’t smooth and its all crushed.

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The other thing you’ll notice is that the S8 has a valved exhaust where you can have both tips flowing air vs just one.

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So, for testing, I did what we all would have done.

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I welded the exhaust valve open.

I did notice a little more noise but it was only in the higher rpm’s. A little more noise at idle but not enough to consider this a mod. Start up was obviously a little louder as the motor goes through its rev range warm up cycle.

After that modification didn’t do much I just said the heck with it. lets just take off the old system and build a new one.

Here is what the old system looked like on the car.

So, it went from this.

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To this.

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The difference was tremendous. Sound, performance, and throttle response all came into play and all worked much better with each other. These cars react really well to a proper exhaust as I mentioned the S6 will react even more so, While I did feel a gain it was clearer now that the ECU was now working overtime to hold back even more power.

These cars are De-tuned from the factory to hold back a lot of the V10 power. That became clearer after adding the exhaust. I kinda felt it each time I added something new to the car like rotors or intake spacers but adding the exhaust put the car over the top. I could now really tell the Audi De-tuned computers were working overtime.

Thankfully, the next modification was the best for last. The JHM tune. Stay tuned that’s coming up next.

#20

A video would help right? Sorry, here it is.

http://audirevolution.net/videos/173/s8-v10-s6-v10-performance-exhaust

I have some in car video if anyone is interested.

#21

http://audirevolution.net/videos/185/worlds-fastest-aud-5.2-s6-s8-v10

Also, there are some S6 JHM tuned results as well. We’ll have to wait for them to post their results. But right now, as it stands, the worlds fastest S6 5.2 V10 and S8 5.2 V10 are JHM Tuned.

I’ll make a post later talking about my thoughts on the tune. I just wanted to get this up for everyone to see.

#22

It’s been a few min since my last update so I wanted to get back with an update.

I’ll post a quick update and then like to get some feedback from the great guys on here about where to take the car direction wise.

Here is where I basically left off.

For those of you who don’t have the JHM tune but have been reading about it. The JHM tune can only be explained by simply saying there is in my opinion and based off performance figures, there is no equal. Anything less than the JHM tune for your V10 5.2 is just a waste of money. This has been talked about over and over so I’ll let the performance speak for itself.

My thoughts on the JHM tune are as follows. Overall, if you love the V10 sooner or later you will come to terms that something is missing and that something, is the real power of the V10. You can tell the OEM tune is holding the car back with the JHM tune your 5.2 V10 is unleashed. I can’t express enough how no other tune out there will offer what the JHM tune does.

Let’s break it down like this.

Throttle response.
OEM - lazy there is a bit of a delay it’s never quite crisp like you would like to see. It’s definitely a detuned luxury feel.

JHM - The best way to say it is crisp. The throttle is in sync with our throttle placement. The delay is removed and now the full power of the V10 can be managed fully by the throttle.

Power & Delivery
OEM - Down low the car sluggish. While the motor still makes power its buffered enough to keep the car from really getting off the line or accelerating quickly at low speeds. but wakes up in the upper rpm range to give you a nice constant smooth acceleration.

JHM - This ties into the throttle response a bit but zero restriction down low. There is an abundance of power now available at lower throttle input. The lower part of the rev range that was once powerless on the OEM tune now has a full load of power to deliver. This is all of the TQ this nice size 5.2 can make so down low this isn’t just a little difference it’s a marked improvement so much so that you’ll find yourself needing to use less throttle than before to get the car up to speed. In the upper rpm’s where the car really shined last time now the car has a more confident full and power feel where you can really keep increasing the cars acceleration with every inch of the throttle input.

From a data log standpoint, you can really see what the JHM tune is doing. You can see JHM has turned off the lower closing of the port flaps. Closing, of the flaps in the OEM tune, kills down low power but there is more. When you give the car more throttle you see the throttle plate move in direct line with the ignition timing, the fuel and most importantly the camshafts. The combination of all this is something that’s clearly not be offered in other tunes for the 5.2 V10.

Saftey

OEM - tune offers a wide range of safe items that turn on your warning lights on the dash

JHM - I know this isn’t really sexy but there are lots of unique little issues that our cars have and the JHM tune makes sure to put a spotlight on those issues sooner than later with error triggers that pop up sooner than later. The power is great but the ability to keep the car safer is even better.

Fuel mileage

OEM - I was seeing about 19 on average

JHM - I was seeing about ~23 on average. Keep in mind this also included the cat back exhaust so I figure the tune is good for about 2 or 3. Some guys are seeing more.

Exhaust note.

OEM - Nice but still subdued

JHM - First start of the car on the JHM tune and you know something good is about to happen. In the middle and higher rev ranges, you can really hear the car breathing better and the exhaust tone reflects it. Really helps give the car that more exotic sound

Overall thoughts.

If you’re a V10 5.2 owner this is a must have. The JHM tune really ties in every aspect of the V10s potential. This is what you expected the V10 to be and to offer. The performance isn’t even matched by doing anything else. When you look at the acceleration times of the past tune offerings people were not able to be much faster than stock 0-60 and the 1/4 mile results were sad. Now you have 12-second capable car with the JHM tune before the JHM tune the best tune offerings for the 5.2 V10 could barely get into the 13-second range.

That is my thought on the JHM tune. A worth the money get and something that will really help make you love the 5.2 V10 all over again.

#23

Well, the choice seems clear now. I think it makes sense for me to pull myself off the beta list for now for the JHM supercharger. I wanted to get my car from the 12s into the 11s by the end of this year and the JHM supercharger kit would have put me well into the 11-second range.

The good news is that me taking myself off the JHM supercharger list opens up a spot for another Audirevolution S6 guy to get on the JHM beta supercharger list. So tell your friends ;D

I think it makes more sense for me to let someone else take my spot and since the JHM beta supercharger program only lets in so many customers and the V10 program is growing with so much excitement, I want to see the platform continue to grow.

Here is where my car is at. Last year after blasting the low 13second pass I felt great but really felt like the car was still choked off somehow. luckily the JHM tune popped up a lean code for the car that led me on a chase to find out what the issue was. I wanted to slowly learn what I could so, I took my time and did as many logs as I could and spent as much time as I could to learn more about the car and how each system worked.

I knew it was going to be injector related as let’s face it. Everyone one of us has had to replace an injector or more. we are starting to see just how big of an issue injectors are on our cars. I actually talked about this here in this post.
http://audirevolution.net/forum/index.php?topic=3950.msg114965#msg114965

So, what I found out was that my injectors were definitely holding the car back. I asked a local friend (Justincredible) to come by and help get as much data as I can. The issue was definitely getting worse and we spotted an anomaly that could have been in part why some in the past have had damaged cats that required replacement. Seems one of my injectors was actually leaking. It took a long time to find this and figure it out. The cost of all the logging and time to see how bad injectors effect the car and what can happen when you drive around with a leaking injector. It took out my primary 02 on bank 4. The bad news is if you want to replace that 02 you need to drop the motor.

After knowing that headers are the obvious choice. Now I’ll start gearing up for dropping the motor and building the headers for the car. The entire process will take several months and I would like to see the car back on the road just before the track season ends in November.

Before we get into that I think my next post should be about the injectors and what we learned from testing. I’ll tell you what. If you haven’t had your injectors tested or replaced. It’s not a bad idea to consider doing so.

I got with JHM and they’re testing injectors at 110bar, cleaning the injectors and testing them again at 110bar. That is so important, as I’ve not seen any other company even those that offer cleaning services actually testing them at 110bar. The other injector cleaning and testing companies only test at about 5 bar some might get up to maybe 10 bar but my injectors didn’t even show a leak until 30 bar. So conventional testing methods outside of what JHM is doing wouldn’t have even shown a leak and the leak is what caused the damage to my 02 sensor leading to me now needing to pull the motor.

My next post will be the testing results I got back from JHM and some pictures of the injectors after I removed them.

#24

Those of us that are going to be pulling out our own injectors take note. You can get the injectors to come out but after say, 100,000 miles they tend to get a little used to being in one spot. Take into consideration years and years of heat and extreme heat cycles.

My tips for removal.

To remove the injectors plan on lots of time and patience. Spray the outer edge of the seal kit area with a liberal amount of penetration lube. The injector removal tool did more damage than just using a few hand tools and some finesse. I used a combination of vibration on the hard fuel rail to loosen any available bond. From there I used a long pry bar with some good old fashion common sense. Take your time use vibration, penetration lube, a rocking motion, and leverage. The injectors are actually spraying as part of the compression cycle and need to withstand the pressure of combustion in the chamber. Keep that in mind, that is how sealed the injectors are and how tight the fit is going to be.

Here you can see I pulled the fuel rail off. You can see the cylinder 6 injector O-ring stayed in the rail (blue) you can see only injectors 8 and 10 were pulled up and removed leaving injector 6,7 and 9 to be pulled.

http://audirevolution.net/addons/albums/images/11801051.jpg

Here is a picture of the injector without the seal kit installed and without the rubber O-ring.

http://audirevolution.net/addons/albums/images/893119960.jpg

This next picture below is what I have been saying for years on why I don’t like using walnut shell blasting for doing carbon cleans. Keep in mind a professional that uses this walnut shell technique might have better control or a better overall process but for me and the others I’ve seen that do walnut shell you risk having this happen.

http://audirevolution.net/addons/albums/images/210055872.png

What you’re seeing here is walnut shell bits in the injector seal sleeve and there is a clear sign of some of the shells getting past the guard. Now I see it as literally impossible for the shells to penetrate the actual combustion seal and make their way into the cylinder but for me, I don’t like seeing walnut shells that close to my cylinders.

So let’s move on to the actual cleaning and testing results.

Honestly guys. I don’t even know how my car was as fast as it was. I know the JHM tune kept the car safe and allowed it to be as fast as it was but when you see the condition of the injectors and their results you will see what I’m talking about.

Keep in mind the target for 110 bar is 1000CC So the numbers you want to see are 1000. Here are the before.

Before (110 Bar)
10)267.07 ****
9) 937.95
8) 522.89 **
7) 937.07
6) 851.80 Leak
5) 937.95
4) 827.43
3) 669.07
2) 364.52 *****

  1. 937.95

Not keep in mind #6 had a leak and we only found that it was leaking after 30bar. So conventional tests would have missed this.

Here are the after.

After (110 Bar)
950.15
974.53
998.92
1047.69
1023.31
970.78
1023.31
Bad
1035.50

I can post more about this in a little bit. I have a prior engagement that I need to go to so, I’ll have to leave this post and come back to it when I have more time.

#25

Before I forget. I pulled my injectors and a friend’s injectors out of his S8. We did the same test and cleaning on his injectors. His injectors were in much better shape than mine.

Before (110 Bar)
974.53
767.25
767.25
755.05
840.41
559.96 **
486.80 ***
572.15 **
913.57
913.57

After

After (110 Bar)
998.92
962.34
950.15
925.76
950.15
1011.11
998.92
937.95
974.53
937.95

As you can see even on his car some of the injectors were almost down by 50% that’s not good. Again with this test, the higher actual operational pressure tests showed more than the lower tests. The tests were actually performed at 110bar 30bar and the standard 5bar.

#26

I know you posted this in the S6 section originally but this is a great read. Thanks for all your work on this.

#27

Forgot about this… We should get the data on audi/VW use from EFT over the next few days, but I believe the fuel system component has proven to eliminate and prevent future carbon buildup. I have units in hand now. May need to get another one for you and Jimmy to test alongside my car(s).

#28

I don’t know what exactly your talking about here but the fuel system has little to nothing to do with the actual carbon build up. The build up in the intake and intake valves comes from the crank case PVC system and oil mist getting in the intake track at low speed idle conditions where the oil separator isn’t working at peak efficiency.

On the FSI cars. The injectors are post intake valve so much unlike older cars you don’t get fuel wash keeping the valves clean. To combat and fix this carbon issue Audi is now using a pre valve LP injection system to once again fuel wash the valves.

If there was a fuel component issue with carbon you would see the exhaust valves with carbon build up and you don’t see that.

#29

Love it CV! This stuff makes me want to change professions

#30

I’m so late seeing this lol. Sorry, I’m almost never in the S8 forum. Yeah, I know. Apparently they resolved it through optimized combustion. But that’s me, a layman, explaining lol. The engineer(s) could do a much better job. I can shoot you the data on hand if you PM me your contact details.

#31

optimized combustion still will not help a poorly designed PCV system. This is solely upon the vent engineers shoulders to design an appropriate crankcase breathing system for the engine.
The combustion engineer just has to then deal with the oil mass entering the chamber and ruining his perfect combustion model!

#32

Mods can you pin this thread to the top and close it?
Really good / essential stuff in here, great for the new and old alike.