Been seriously considering trading in my Stage II S4 for the RS5. I’ve had a few discussions with my dealer, and I think it would work out financially. Main concern is losing the awesome low-end torque that I have right now with the S4. What do you think? Have you test-driven the RS5? Would it disappoint in any areas?
In terms of mods, the first order of business would be an APR exhaust. And down the road, I would most likely add their supercharger.
But I’ve also never dealt with selling (or trading in) a car, like mine, that is heavily-modded. So any insight on what I should expect in that area would also be appreciated.
First off, thanks for the props, but I’m a young pupil of the true masters, many of whom post on this site. I just retain and regurgitate information well lol.
I dont know about the RS5 disappointing in any area other than maybe not having a manual transmission. I drive a stock RS4 and I never find myself saying 'oh it’s so disappointing that this car doesn’t make more low end torque. The car races through RPMs to redline and it’s a whole ton of fun. Too many people talk about this lacking torque thing. I don’t really get it. Tell the guy driving his Ferrari 458 that his car is no fun because it doesn’t make much torque from its 4.5 litre V8 that revs out to 9000 RPM. I think he will say ‘oh yeah? watch this’ and then show you how much fun 9000 rpm really is. The RS4/5 ‘only’ wind out to 8250-8500 RPM though lol.
The whole torque vs. hp debate has its merits but in this situation when you’re going from one car that is modded pretty heavily, is pushing the supercharger hard, and has about $5-7,000 in mods in it and you’re running mid 12s…vs. one that does that bone stock…I think you’ll not miss the torque for more than 5 minutes.
If you supercharge the RS5, you’ll be making as much torque as the strongest B8 S4 3.0T car makes in HP…and you’ll have another few thousand RPMs of fun to go, on your way to about 600 hp at teh crank. That’s going to be nothing short of epic.
As for your mods, sell them off on the forums. If you don’t have your exhaust, exchange with someone. i.e. ‘my APR exhaust for your stocker + $1300’ or something. Mods left on a car on trade in are like cash left in the glovebox…they give you nothing for them, so you may as well get them off (where possible)
Also, no offense to APR, who are doing great on the B8, but on the 4.2 cars their exhausts have left a lot to be desired, using restrictive stock-like diameters that are a terrible decision on an NA car. Your supercharger isn’t there to make up for mistakes in the exhaust…you need it to be efficient as hell. That will likely mean you will need a 2.75" x-pipe catback for the RS5. Until a good one exists, save your money and wait to buy an exhaust. The first exhausts out for every 4.2 car since the old A6/A8 have been the worst for the most part…and the last released ones have been the best. Patience. The stocker isn’t that bad frankly coming from quattro, and when you hear the noises it makes, you won’t feel the rush to improve upon it the way guys did in the 3.0T
Thnx for that well thought-out response, Sak! Much appreciated. With respect to the torque issue, perhaps I’m focusing too much on that because I visit primarily the B8 forums (which you know are about 99% biased against the 4.2 V8). The RS5 stock will run just about even, if not better, than my Stage II S4 in the 1/4, so I tend to agree that this low-end torque stuff probably won’t be an issue. Plus, as you say, I may be WAY more happy with the power at the higher end revving to 8500. That will just be insane!!
Great idea on the mods. I hadn’t given much thought to selling them on the forums, but I’ll definitely pursue that option if I go ahead with this. AND I still have my stock exhaust (buried in my parents’ basement lol), so I could have that re-installed with no issue.
I will definitely give some thought as well to the exhaust upgrade. You are probably right that I’ll be quite satisfied with how the RS5 sounds stock. The supercharger upgrade would likely come in after a year or two with the car, but then again, I may just jump right on it.
The DSG is one area with which I am completely comfortable. I still do not have any experience driving a manual, so the dual-clutch is basically the best of both worlds for me. I never drive in “auto” mode with my S4 and would not do so with the RS5. The fact that Audi has tweaked the DSG in the RS5 to be even more “manual-like” is even more awesome.
So I’ll be in touch with my dealer this week. I may just put down a deposit on one by Friday. Hell, the orders take about 6 months from what I hear, so that will give me plenty of time to decide on which avenues to pursue for getting rid of my mods and selling my car.
The RS5 has the same performance out of the box of a heavily modded B8 S4 plus all the other great features that come with a RS model. Like the great looks of that wide body, sexy exhaust note, and the exclusivity of a RS.
After you have all your mods off I recommend you either sell your car privately or to Carmax. Carmax pays KBB amounts and I have sold a few cars to them that I got for cheap then fixed to make a very nice profit. Most dealers will low ball you on trading in your S4 from what I have seen and helped negotiate.
It should be posted all over the place: wait for a good 2.75 inch exhaust to come out for the RS5 before buying an exhaust. Milltek sounds great along with some of the others but they usually are too small for good performance. (even for the B8 S4)
I want to leave with this. It is a good thing that Audi went with the DSG for the RS5 because the manual transmissions and clutches for the B8s (S5s and S4s) have been garbage. Plus the aftermarket has given up on clutch kits since everyone has basically gotten the DSG with the B8 S4s. There will be a thread here when I have to replace a second worn B8 S4 clutch in a little over a month’s time.
^^ Thanks for the info JimmyBones, that’s interesting to know. How does the DSG compare in terms of reliability vs the manuals? Have VAG ironed out some of the issues I heard they were having with the mechatronics? Or Have I got my wires crossed?
As for the OP - definitely the RS5. Keep it stock, keep your warranty unlike if you got a 3.0T car where it would be very difficult not to be tempted into at least a tune. Plus the RS5 is one great looking car.
Interesting… Can you share how so? Not doubting you but my 2010 DSG has performed better than most of the others I have seen posted… Shifts hangup less frequently and it allows me to shift at redline in manual mode… Also, I heard that the B8.5 has different gear ratios, do you know if that is true and if so what they are? Thanks Ron
I don’t think he’s referring to shifting ferocity or aiding acceleration/performance. He’s referring to mechatronic errors and the whole thing having to be replaced. Reliability. When there are parts redesigned for an RS model, some of them trickle down to the S models. I believe that happened with the B8 RS5 development.
The B7 S4 for example benefitted from the B7 RS4 but only in the final couple of years with a new differential, and new sway bar, different pressure plate, and a few other cosmetic changes inside and out.
Wow, did this blow up fast. I went to lunch and came back to check for new posts and thought I was in the B5 section on Audizine.
The 2010 S4s had a few differences that made servicing it a pain in the ass and Audi went to a newer style for the 2011 S4s. I don’t think they made any big changes to how it operates other than maybe software changes but it should be more reliable - I will get to that farther down so please bare with me.
The 2010 S4s had a S-tronic trans with an external in-line filter that looks like this:
It is the same style filter as the old Multitronic front wheel drive transmissions. You would have thought Audi would have realized that it doesn’t work since sooooooooooooo many Multitronic transmissions failed left and right. That filter is also expensive as shit! Which is probably why only the DSG oil gets changed at 35K miles for the 2010 S4s as the 2011 S4s get new oil and a new filter. Here is a link to the maintenance schedule on AOA’s website if you would like to look it up: http://www.audiusa.com/us/brand/en/owners/audi_service/service/maintenance.html
On a side note, I noticed when going through the maintenance schedules that only the 2011 automatic Q7s get their trans fluid changed - that is a nice curve ball to screw up a ton of dealerships. Also the 2012 R8 GTs use 10W-60 oil, which is thick stuff. Sorry I get sidetracked easily.
The 2011 S4’s DSG transmission filter is like the normal automatic transmission filter that is held in by an O-ring. It looks like this:
Did you notice I said that the filter is held in by an O-ring? Guess what I have seen happen with Audis ranging from A4s to A8 W12s? That is right the filter falls down and the trans makes a ton of noise plus it will not move the car very well. But in the end that filter is a lot cheaper to make and they don’t pay the techs any more time to replace it even though it takes a more work. There is also a TSB that covers the two different style DSGs and it states that the external in-line filter style transmission was replaced with the newer style internal filter transmission. The TSB also states that if one of the older style transmissions is replaced that the newer style transmission requires a filter change like the newer models but good luck getting Audi to pay for it under audicare.
As far as gear ratios go here is what I found. The B8.5 S-tronics are higher geared for better fuel economy past first gear and the manuals stay the same.
The S-tronic gear ratios are:
2010 2013
3.69 1. 3.692
2.24 2. 2.150
1.56 3. 1.406
1.18 4. 1.025
0.92 5. 0.787
0.75 6. 0.625
0.62 7. 0.519
Final 3.88 Final 3.875
I found this information by looking at CarandDriver.com for the 2010 S4s and AOA’s website for the 2013 S4s. It seems Car and Driver has not caught on to the fact that Audi has changed the gear ratios for the 2013 S4s and I don’t like how they round the fourth digit of gear ratios.
Yes there have been failures with the 2010 S-tronics. Last year in the summer time there was one of the last 2010 Imola B8 S4s, that was a lease for an AOA corporate employee, where a sensor failed internally. Technical assistance told the tech that they had to replace the entire transmission because the sensor was part of the housing on the older style transmissions. With the newer transmissions the sensor could be replaced separately and technical assistance also said they had seen like twenty to thirty cases of this so far.
great information jimmy…we’re lucky to have you on board.
p.s. interesting to see that the B8.5/2013 guys get a different 7th gear. Should help the engine turn a few revs slower when cruising along. Wonder if the MT cars are the same as the B8.
Jimmy, Thanks man! As the others have said, it’s awesome to have you on the forum sharing this good technical information… I sincerly appreciate it!
I didn’t even think of looking at the Audi site for the 2013 gear ratios, duh on me… lol IMO the B8 is better suited for drag racing with the steeper ratios, not that these are drag cars but IMO the tranny and ratios are very well suited… I’ll have to do some calculations this weekend to see speed when shifting, rpm change and such… I bet stock the B8.5 may perform better because of the boost bypass and the gearsing maybe actually putting you at a sweeter spot in the powerband, but tuned I think the B8 is suited better… Even with me shifting into 5th before the traps I don’t think it hurts because of how fast the car shifts… later Ron
You maybe on to something Ron. Just from looking at the numbers from the two places that I looked at yesterday it looks like the stock B8.5s are a hair faster. The 2010 B8 S4 is listed at 5.1-5.3 seconds for 0-62mph and the 2013 B8.5 S4 is 4.9 seconds.
I considered the RS5. I prefer the low end torque of my current S4. I have an S2000 and enjoy the power that car has way up high. In the end I traded my 2010 S4 and the 2008 S2000 for my new S4 a 2013 model. Anyway the RS5 is a great car but for me as a daily driver the S4 or S5 is the better choice. If I was driving on twisty hilly roads then the RS5 might be a great better choice. My S4 goes in Monday am. Transferred from my current S4 to my new one is the AWE exhaust. The suspension, PSS10 coil over will be installed by the dealer in the spring.
