Got my car back yesterday with the new I/M. Car feels real strong which is nice. I also ordered a new serp belt & tensioner which should be in by Monday so I will tackle those two items then. Then I should be good for quite some time. It is so nice to have my car back. I feel like a kid again, lol, I plan to detail her this weekend and I’m actually looking forward to it.
SHOULD… ;D
did you reload the JHM tune yet? That will deffinitly revive the love for the car
Don’t jinx me ;D
Nah, waiting on the exhaust to be available. I reverted back to my stock, catted OEM DP’s for all of the warranty work I was having done. I have a buyer for my gutted OEM DP’s so those won’t be going back on my car. Without a lift in my garage I’ll just wait to get a true 2.75" exhaust set up before I get under there again and start contorting my body into positions it doesn’t like while trying to either loosen or tighten bolts.
Once I have the exhaust in my posession and installed I’ll flash the tune back on. By that time I will also probably have ordered the Stage IV clutch & l/w flywheel combo so maybe I’ll tackle everything at once. I’m also hoping my brother has a lift in his garage by then since that will make everything a hell of a lot easier. If not I may just suck it up and pay someone that I have worked with previously who has an actual performance shop with lifts etc to do the work.
I think this is a great idea. If your going to take off the exhaust its a great time to do the clutch as you have to take of the down pipes to do the clutch. Sounds like you will have the Exhaust soon. As The 3.0 DPs are getting ready to be ran and I know they were only going to be ran after the next batch of RS4 stuff was done at the new fab shop
That would be great but I have heard a different version of that story. Maybe the more informed will chime in but I’m hearing estimates that include “months” in the wait time, not weeks or days.
Paul, if we have a lift by the time you get the exhaust, you are more than welcome to use it and Ill give you a hand putting it on. glad to see everything is getting resolved with your car.
That’s a very generous offer D, much appreciated. I’ll stay in touch and update you as I get parts.
hopefully not
this quote though…
“at the new fab shop”
makes me think something is in the works to make it sooner than later.
The saga continues…
I’d like to get some feedback on an issue I have been experiencing for months. I’ll provide a brief summary to catch you up to speed. This has been posted in various threads across different forums but I figure it’s easier to have everything in one spot.
Large amounts of smoke (grey, black and blue believe it or not) exiting the driver’s side tail pipes. A little bit on the passenger side. This would happen when leaving from a standstill all the time.
- We all know what the different colors mean (oil vs. fuel. vs coolant vs. carbon etc) so I’ll skip to the dealership’s diagnosis after MANY back and forth convos with them.
Compression test shows PSI numbers a tad low but still within spec and within 10% of each other.
Luckily, the 3rd party warranty company approves engine tear down; tech discovers valve guides are leaking slightly on driver’s side bank (3 cylinders), 1 cylinder on passenger side. New heads are ordered from Germany and installed. In addition, I also had a new I/M installed because the tech broke of the flap actuator arms (brilliant) but at least I’m piling on new parts at the warranty company’s expense. Add in a new valve cover and an updated cam follower cover for good measure. Obviously all seals, gaskets, fluids etc were replaced too. Did the serp belt and tensioner at my request since the car was apart and it was almost time.
Leak down test performed post head install. Car is perfect. (Safe to assume all seals and guides etc are good.)
Pressure tested the coolant system. Aces, car is perfect.
Compression test is done post head install. Car is perfect. Now that the valve guides are new the compression test shows higher PSI all within spec and within 5.5% of each other.
- Great, one would think the problem would be solved at this point…nope.
- Now I experience blue-ish / black-ish smoke ONLY (no more grey) when the car has had a chance to reach operating temps (oil is 158+) AND it has been idling at a traffic light for more than 45 seconds. Meaning, once there is a change in vacuum the car decides to dump oil into the exhaust (via who knows what route) and the result is a puff of smoke upon acceleration (hard or easy take off, doesn’t matter.)
- Now, I don’t have carbon build up yet because I’ve only driven about 600 miles since the parts have been installed. We also checked each and every cylinder for scoring…we could still see the honing marks from manufacturing and the car still had the special coating on the walls from assembly. The tech is amazed at the condition of the cylinder walls. Cool. Rings are fine since compression test scored high.
The dealer throws their hands up and says “we have no clue” when I returned to tell them that I still have a similar smoke issue but it’s less and the color is blue/black only.
I can’t accept their response so I do some reading. After refreshing my memory by reading the Self Study guide I have a theory. The PCV/Cyclonic fine oil separator is failing or failed or clogged etc. I tell the dealer my theory and they laughed and said, “damn, thanks for doing our job.” Half stroking my ego and half trying to make light of a situation they know I’m bothered by.
PCV/Cyclonic fine oil separator replaced today 10/25 by dealer. I also asked them to replace the two breather tubes that go to each valve cover. I was hoping they would have replaced all of the oil lines heading to and from the PCV unit but they didn’t. I asked them to check for kinks in the lines and they said all were good. Guess what…I STILL HAVE A FREAKING SMOKE ISSUE. SAME EXACT SYMPTOMS AS DESCRIBED ABOVE (warm up, drive, idle, change in vacuum, take off = PUFF.) I have taken into consideration that there could be a good amount of residual oil on the cats/exhaust that will take a while to burn off. Maybe this is it but I’m not sure. As soon as my new exhaust is delivered I will test that theory by installing it. Problem is I’m consuming oil. About qt/1 K miles. Maybe a touch less that a qt.
I’m at a loss…hoping someone has some insight.
I plan to post this on multiple forums, maybe someone has had a similar experience. I have no idea what is causing this. I followed the oil circulation path and really thought the PCV/fine oil separator was the culprit. Any ideas?
very weird.
the dealer knows about the consumption? a little smoke wouldn’t really be enough to get their attention, but if your oil gets below the oil consumption test threshold, that will
other idea = go to a new dealer. You live within 100 miles of 5 dealers I bet. Get a fresh set of eyes on it.
Weird indeed.
Yes they do. Hasn’t hit the threshold. Even more weird, the oil consumption isn’t consitent! Don’t even ask, I can’t explain that one.
True - Good advice and I plan to. Just very frustrating to have all these techs available and none of them could figure it out. Makes me think it’s an odd, never before seen type of thing. FML.
Well atlest your in the right forum for help.
I would perform this check list
check the oil for signs of fuel
when the car is warm take the oil cap off and let me know if the iddle changes or becomes uneven
check your oil level each time you fuel the car. Keep a log on this.
Unplug your PCV system… cap off the heads and then drive. See if this issue continues.
For me the first thing I think you have as a dissatvantage is the fact that at one time there was oil going into the exhaust. This may still be there and not be all burnt off.
Do you still have your cats.
I would suggest we start with this and then move on from there.
Agreed! So thankful this forum was started - great site.
I will try and check the oil for signs of fuel - other than smell, any quick way to know for sure how much dilution is taking place. Is an actual oil analysis required for this?
This is to check for change in vacuum I assume? Either way I will definitely do this and report back.
I’ve been doing this weekly but I will log it officially in a note book at each fill up (I fill 2x’s per 7 days usually.)
Sorry, which tubes would I need to unplug? The ends that plug into the valve covers? Or a different location? What should I use to cap it with? Sorry for the questions, I’ve never done this one before.
True - others have mentioned this. If it wasn’t such a pain in the ass to do without a lift, I’d borrow someone’s extra set of Dp’s and cat back to test this aspect.
Yes, I’m currently running OEM DP’s with all 4 cats in tact.
Awesome suggestions, much appreciated. I’ll start testing these items tonight and report back.
for refrence post a clear picture of your motor and the back where the PCV system is. we can then show you where you can dissconect the PCV system to test this.
I think both suggestions are a great idea and a good place to start. We need to start removing vairables first.
Two images for different views; one is on the RS4 block, the other the Q7 - same basic set-up though. You can see the paths of the breather tubes to the valve covers, the PCV unit itself, the drainage tube, the return tube etc.
http://i834.photobucket.com/albums/zz269/NY07RS4/RS4PCVFineOilSeparatorimage.jpg
http://i834.photobucket.com/albums/zz269/NY07RS4/PCVpartsadditionalangleforreference2.jpg
One more:
Time to sell as mint and get a GT3 like our friend Joey Cuccaro.
If you follow the path you can see that the most likely situation for oil to get into the motor would be threw the breather pipes then passing into the crank case breather system into the intake tract.
Follow what carlos said. Take off the oil cap and you want to see if there is a vac or a push of air. This will tell you more. Also keep in mind when you change or remove the crank case pressure system the car is going to run a little different. Don’t do it for ever and make sure to take precautions to not get anything into the valve covers or intake track when testing.
Also check to see if your throttle body has oil around the blade.
I also agree. The path to fixing the issue is sorting out all the facts like the dealer would or should I say should.
I agree CV, looks to be the most reasonable entrance based on the pictures from the self study guide.
Update: 10/26/11:
I drove the car this morning for about a half hour so it was definitely up to temp. Pulled in my driveway and let the car idle while I popped the hood and tried two of the above suggestions.
Test I
- When I remove the oil cap the idle drops so low the car was just about to studder but caught itself. Then it idle’d a little rough.
1a. I held a paper towel over the oil cap opening with two hands so it was taught. The towel indicated the motor was pulling it (suction).
*Noticed a whistling noise during this test which I think is expected.
Test II
2. I replaced the oil cap and then pulled off the driver’s side breather tube connection at the valve cover. Same result, idle drops real low, catches itself and then idles kind of rough. Nothing crazy but not normal.
2a. Same test but ths time on the passenger side valve cover connection. Same results.
*Heard a whistle each time.
**Both breather tubes were oily. Clean, fresh looking liquid oil coating on the inner wals. No build-up or thick stuff at all.
Other observations:
After sitting at a light for about 30 seconds or more (idling) when I go to accelerate there is a slight hesitation/stumble in the lower RPM range holding the car back a tad between 1,200 - 1,6000 RPM, immediately following this stumble is when the puff of smoke exits the tail pipes. Total speculation here but I assume this may be the excess blow by blocking the normal airway in the intake and dumping some residual oil into the engine causing a choke effect. Then the combustion process sucks it in and then pushes it out through the exhaust.
Also - major f’up on the dealership’s tech part. I spoke to him this morning and asked him a question: “How much oil do you put in my car during an oil change?” (Since they did one when replacing the heads etc. His response, “6 quarts, start the car let it warm up turn it off. Check the stick, usually add another quart maybe a quart and a half.” WTF?! I asked him if he has looked at the manual or the latest release addendum from AOA etc and he says “no, why?” I tell him the proper amount and he says, "oh, damn, didn’t realize.
Which tells me two things.
1.) I’m at the wrong dealership, time for a change.
2.) I’m not using nearly as much oil as I had first thought. When I got the car back the very first time I asusmed he had put 9.5 - 10 qts in. When I checked the dip stick about 500 miles after the initial appointment it was low, so I added 1 qt like the manual suggests. I drove another 150 miles and check the stick again. Oil still wasn;t at the cross hatch marks so I added another quart. After 200 miles I checked a third time. Oil was spot on towards the upper half of the cross hash marks. Fast forward to the most recent time I checked and the oil is a har lower than wher eit was last time.
As I said previously, I’m now carrying a notebook with me and will check it at each fillup. I will note the mileage and the level on the dip stick. In addition, I found a way to check the oil level via vagvom. Is this method accurate? I can add this measurment too if people think it is worth while.
I’m not into band-aid fixes…I want my car 100% healthy the proper way. But, I was wondering if a catch can would help reduce the blow by and help reduce the amount of oil that is entering my I/M etc. I guess we won’t know for sure until we determine if the PCV system is functioning as it should.
what the fuck…did he think you were driving a 2.7T?
In any event, your car would have gone nuts if you only had 6 quarts of oil in. Low oil light would come on instantly, and wouldn’t go off if you added 2 quarts at once, let alone one at a time. Might it not have triggered an oil pressure warning if you had only 2/3 of the necessary oil in the system?
all in all, good choice on the new dealership thing. I think we told you that earlier in the thread when they tried to scam you/your insurance company. Must be REALLY close to your house for you to go back lol.