RS4 smoke issues and dealer results

B6/7 S4/RS4
#61

From a technical prospective, I think checking the pre stage of the PCV system sounds like the best first place to start. I would remove the PCV like you did (less the oil cap) put some sort of filtration device on the valve cover pick up and then drive the car and see if the same thing happens.

Taking the PCV out of the loop will let you know if this is one of the issues.

Check your fuel trims and see if there are any lean or rich codes. I remembered you had that from before. This could indicate that there is a vac leak in the PCV system.

One step at a time.

#62

Who knows, I was baffled when he said that.

Remember, he added 6 qts to start. Started the car, turned off the car, measured (bet they never really do) and added at least 1 more qt (total of 7), to 1.5 qts (7.5 qts.) Realistically, there is still a 1/4 - 1/2 qt in the engine, pan, baffles, filter tube etc that never comes out. So let’s call it 8qts total when MY dealer does it. Up until recently, AoA was ok with 8.5 qts in the RS according to the manual…I never was, I always went by the dip stick. Each oil change I did I’d use between 9.5 qts to usually just shy of 10 qts. So, if 8.5 qts has been ‘ok’ and registers on the dip stick (it does at the bottom section), then 7.5 - 8qts is still not setting any “alarms off.” Now I know why I would always need to add a qt to a qt and a half a few days after each dealer change in the past. I wasn’t using it, it wasn’t f’ing there! I had chalked it up to their oil choice (Castrol). Guess it wasn’t the culprit.

lol, yeah ya think. I have NO choice now. I have to go elsewhere, there were just too many things on the list that went bad with this dealership. It is unfortunately 8 minutes from my house. The next one is about 35 but will be well worth the trip.

#63

Thanks, I will remove the two breather tube connections from the valve covers and install those little mini-me air filter looking things I’ve seen people use. See link below to confirm I’m on the same page as you guys:
http://www.google.com/products/catalog?q=valve+cover+breather&hl=en&qscrl=1&nord=1&rlz=1T4DKUS_enUS312US312&prmd=imvns&bav=on.2,or.r_gc.r_pw.,cf.osb&ion=1&biw=1440&bih=592&wrapid=tlif131965597792810&um=1&ie=UTF-8&tbm=shop&cid=11776435369990666010&sa=X&ei=IVqoTprMM8rt0gGb58n2DQ&ved=0CIwBEPMCMAU#

If so, I will pick up two, one for each valve cover.

Question; what do I use to cover up the now unconnnected breather tube ends? Those had vacuum/suction too so I don’t want anything entering those tubes.

I will log the fuel trims again for each bank to ensure nothing has changed. Last time I posted them here they were within spec according to the masses.

Thanks again for the help guys - much appreciated.

#64

Nicht Uberfullen!

Might be an indication of why you’re blowing smoke (literally) and your dealer is blowing smoke (figuratively). I uberfulled once and enjoyed dark smoke for a while. When I realised my error, I ‘extracted’ enough to correct the situation.

#65

Nah - wish is was that simple. Not overfilled. Never. I’ve never had the oil above the cross hatch marks which is where the manual wants you upon topping off or changing oil. Even after leaving the dealership with too LITTLE oil, same symptoms appear once sitting at a traffic light.

Videos to follow in a bit to show the tests I’ve performed.

#66

Videos:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qi7TnE23JsM

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eO8TSH2ljNA

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d2iE_X31R1w

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dEF5PPumjCc

#67

Next three things I will try to get to tonight will be;

  • Checking the throttle body plate for oil
    Done see pic in post below)

- Checking long term fuel trims for both banks

      • Bank 1: -2.3% (Idle) / 7.0% (Partial)
        • Bank 2: -0.8% (Idle) / 0.0% (Partial)

- Sourcing the valve cover breathers
TBD (later)

Will report back soon.

Other info:

Oil level according to VAGCOM = 77.5MM (min threshold I believe it said was 50MM)

Fault codes stored (I think this may have been from me removing the oil cap then breather tubes - based on the mileage in the error report)

Wednesday,26,October,2011,18:22:25:14504
VCDS Version: Release 10.6.5 (x64)

            Address 01: Engine       Labels: 079-910-560-BNS1.lbl

Control Module Part Number: 8E1 910 560 A HW: 8E1 907 560
Component and/or Version: 4.2L V8/4V FSI ª0060
Software Coding: 01040009180F0160
Work Shop Code: WSC 02707 444 54551
VCID: 244CFA219E40
1 Fault Found:

006435 - Please Check DTC Memory of ECU Number 2
P1923 - 008 - Implausible Signal
Freeze Frame:
Fault Status: 01101000
Fault Priority: 0
Fault Frequency: 1
Mileage: 97838 km
Time Indication: 0

Wednesday,26,October,2011,18:24:38:14504
VCDS Version: Release 10.6.5 (x64)

            Address 11: Engine II       Labels: 079-910-560-BNS2.lbl

Control Module Part Number: 8E1 910 560 A HW: 8E1 907 560
Component and/or Version: 4.2L V8/4V FSI ª0060
Software Coding: 01040009180F0160
Work Shop Code: WSC 02707 444 54551
VCID: 244CFA219E40
3 Faults Found:

000768 - Random/Multiple Cylinder Misfire Detected
P0300 - 008 - Implausible Signal - Intermittent
Freeze Frame:
Fault Status: 00101000
Fault Priority: 0
Fault Frequency: 1
Mileage: 97763 km
Time Indication: 0

         Freeze Frame:
                RPM: 877 /min
                Load: 17.6 %
                Speed: 0.0 km/h
                Temperature: 96.0°C
                Temperature: 45.0°C
                Absolute Pres.: 1000.0 mbar
                Voltage: 13.589 V

000769 - Cylinder 1: Misfire Detected
P0301 - 008 - Implausible Signal - Intermittent
Freeze Frame:
Fault Status: 00101000
Fault Priority: 0
Fault Frequency: 1
Mileage: 97763 km
Time Indication: 0

         Freeze Frame:
                RPM: 877 /min
                Load: 17.6 %
                Speed: 0.0 km/h
                Temperature: 96.0°C
                Temperature: 45.0°C
                Absolute Pres.: 1000.0 mbar
                Voltage: 13.589 V

000770 - Cylinder 2: Misfire Detected
P0302 - 008 - Implausible Signal - Intermittent
Freeze Frame:
Fault Status: 00101000
Fault Priority: 0
Fault Frequency: 1
Mileage: 97763 km
Time Indication: 0

         Freeze Frame:
                RPM: 877 /min
                Load: 17.6 %
                Speed: 0.0 km/h
                Temperature: 96.0°C
                Temperature: 45.0°C
                Absolute Pres.: 1000.0 mbar
                Voltage: 13.589 V
#68

Any chance you can make these videos non-private?

#69

Shit…thought if I hit “share” and copied that link they would work for everyone here. I’ll change the privacy setting on them now.

Update: All vids should be good to watch now.
Long tern fuel trims were added up above.
Tested the vacuum on the PCV system, seems to be function correctly.

Both of these below will be done today:
Grab two valve cover breathers and install them.
Check throttle plate for a oil.

#70

make them ‘unlisted’…then only people with the link can see them

that’s what I do with lots of the pulls videos.

edit: you already did

looks like your car is an equal bank opportunist when it comes to smoke on a ripped rev. Both sides seemed to produce the same. Looked like more from passenger if anything but it’s the camera angle.

what’s with the carbon? looked like black ‘nerds’ that candy from years ago.

#71

Yes, vids are fixed, thanks.

Even though I used to get more spoke from the driver’s side pipe I never knew why. I always thought it was the driver’s side bank with the issue. Then I was informed, the OEM resonator mixes up exhaust from both banks prior to exiting through the tail pipes. That through me through a loop. This was prior to new heads and all of the warranty work.

Post new parts: Equal shit coming out both sides which makes more sense. That rev in the vid is black & sooty, normal imo for a stop on the pedal. Much different from what my issue is with the blue smoke as described above.

Those odd looking black “nerd candy like” looking things…no clue, lol. Those have not come back since the new parts either. I’m assuming it was gummbed up carbon/soot/residue in the exhaust that finally made it’s way to the mufflers. Hard little suckers.

Having a hard time finding valve cover breather with the correct diameter ends to fit on both my valve covers and the ends of my breather tubes…this is preventing me from trying the test mentioned above. I reallly want to see if when the PCV system is eliminated temporarily the blue smoke issue stops.

Compression test will be done tonight when I get home.

#72

what’s the word?

#73

Wow. I just read all this and really hope you can find the cause and fix the damn thing. Good luck.

#74

Update 10/31/11:

Compression test done (dry):
1 = 153
2 = 156
3 = 150
4 = 150
5 = 165
6 = 150
7 = 160
8 = 165

Compression pressure bar pressure

New 10.0 to 14.0 (10B = 145PSI / 14B = 203)
Wear limit 9.0 (130.5PSI)
Difference between cylinders max. 3.0 (My max difference = 1.03B)
I’m within “new” range and I don’t come any where near exceeding the max delta between cylinders.

Reference for above and for spark plug reference:

http://i834.photobucket.com/albums/zz269/NY07RS4/Compression%20Test%20dry%2010-31-2011/DSC_0591.jpg

Spark plugs:

http://i834.photobucket.com/albums/zz269/NY07RS4/Compression%20Test%20dry%2010-31-2011/DSC_0577.jpg

http://i834.photobucket.com/albums/zz269/NY07RS4/Compression%20Test%20dry%2010-31-2011/DSC_0578.jpg

http://i834.photobucket.com/albums/zz269/NY07RS4/Compression%20Test%20dry%2010-31-2011/DSC_0579.jpg

http://i834.photobucket.com/albums/zz269/NY07RS4/Compression%20Test%20dry%2010-31-2011/DSC_0580.jpg

http://i834.photobucket.com/albums/zz269/NY07RS4/Compression%20Test%20dry%2010-31-2011/DSC_0581.jpg

http://i834.photobucket.com/albums/zz269/NY07RS4/Compression%20Test%20dry%2010-31-2011/DSC_0582.jpg

http://i834.photobucket.com/albums/zz269/NY07RS4/Compression%20Test%20dry%2010-31-2011/DSC_0583.jpg

http://i834.photobucket.com/albums/zz269/NY07RS4/Compression%20Test%20dry%2010-31-2011/DSC_0584.jpg

Someone requested or asked if I had oil on my throttle plate:

http://i834.photobucket.com/albums/zz269/NY07RS4/2007%20Audi%20RS4/ThrottleplateB7RS4.jpg

I measured the interior and exterior diameters of both my valve cover breather openings and my breather tubes. I found a place that has all four breather valve filters in stock, I will be picking those parts up tomorrow and will test the elimination of the PCV system.

I have a lot more pictures so I’ll probably do a DIY later this week. Fairly straighforward process but maybe someone will appreciate the pictures if they get stuck or confused along the way.

#75

Thanks - it’s been challenging to say the least.

#76

When I have more time, hopefully this week, I will do a WET compression test. I was just too shot last night to do anymore work.

Since dry compression tests are usually indicative of the health of your valves and wet is respresentative of your rings…I’m hoping the wet test results are good.

Another enthusiast on another forum forwarded my situation to an Audi/RS4/R8 tech he works with. Of course it is speculation because he hasn’t seen my car but his theory was: “it could be bad oil rings/oil scraper ring … as compression tests and leak down test would have all still come back fine and this could be the issue…”

I’m assuming he thinks only a dry compression test was done - wouldn’t a wet compression test tell us more regarding the condition of the rings?

TIA

#77

no actually a dry test tends to yeald more accuarte results. a wet test tends to push fluids into the gaps and create a higher reading. Even if there is a leak wet tests TEND to read higher due to the fluids getting pushed to keep a seal

#78

Agredd that the numbers will and imo should be higher. If there was no increase I’d be concerned. If the increase was too significant I’d be concerned. That’s my issue - not sure what a healthy increase in PSI should be when going from dry to wet test. Some say no more that 10 PSI per…others give a percentage…

Luckily, I was able to source the proper sized valve cover breather filters for all four locations. They will be here Thursday. I can finally try and rule out the PCV system. Or find out that it is the PCV system, in which case there are only a handfull of parts left that weren’t replaced.

I can’t wait for this shit to be over. I’m itching to put my go fast parts on.

#79

do you have any problems/symptoms/performance issues other than the smoke?

sounds like you don’t have an oil consumption issue
sounds like you don’t have a scored walls issue
sounds like you don’t have any other compression issue

I guess that’s all good news.

I can’t remember if I already asked, but is the smoke present on cold start? i.e. after it has sat overnight?

#80

Wow I’m sorry to hear about all this going on. Too many smart people on this forum for this not to get sorted out though (and it seems you too stubborn to give up :wink: ) Subscribed to see how this is resolved.