That French guy must be loaded cause taxes in France are extremely high and the cost of buying and insuring an RS4 is quite high as well, let alone all the mods he’s added. Nuts!
Hi Guys,
I also work at TTS and was responsible for most of the design work on the rs4 rotrex kit.
Now let’s try and clear a few things up as to be honest some of the stuff I am reading here is just poorly researched or bordering on plain ridicules!
Firstly, the supercharger we are using is the c38-91. This has a max airflow rating of around 0.63 kg or if you convert that to cfm it is around 1100cfm. The fact that someone has stated that the jhm vortech supercharger is the only one that seems big enough is not the case. The vortech V3si is I believe is rated at 1150cfm. But due to the fact it revs much slower than a rotrex (52,000rpm compared to 90,000 rpm) they do not really make the midrange that the rotrex can. They are VERY comparable superchargers for peak bhp numbers.
Regarding dyno plots and bhp numbers. Someone has said how ‘we’ claim 600+ on our tuners dyno and then basically insinuated that we do not make those numbers. Did you miss the post that horsepower just posted showing it being independently tested on 3 different dynos? It produced in excess of 600 bhp on all 3. On mrc’s dyno they always make somewhere between 620-630bhp. The lowest we have seen on the rs4 is 611bhp on a dyno dynamics at evolve automotive in Luton. Anyone who has ever talked with evolve will know that they do not fudge dyno numbers for anyone including us. More to the point, we would never lie about our predicted numbers anyway. What would be the point? As we would only get made to look stupid when it eventually came out that we where exaggerating our outputs.
I don’t know who’s car that is in the video, we have got a kit on a French plated avant but what do you really think this video shows? Someone has said that the kit is defiantly ours as it has a red cam cover with TTS engraved in it; well I can categorically tell you that no it hasn’t. We have only ever done one kit with a red cover and that one is sat right here on our own development S5. More to the point, the customer in question actually upgraded to the TTS kit from the pes m112 kit. Was the video done before of after he upgraded? What gear did he try racing in? Did he lift early? ect ect the video doesn’t really show anything in my opinion as its just such poor quality and the details on it are clearly sketchy from the fact that people seem to think they know it had a TTS kit because it had a red cover. Which it did not.
To prove this, here is the car in question if it is this customer you are talking about, you can clearly see the plenum lid is not red 
its the one on the left.
http://i494.photobucket.com/albums/rr310/deltav08/tts20rs4s20.jpg
Anyone who wants to take a good look at the different kit options out there can easily do some basic research into supercharger compressor maps ect to see which kits can physically make the power or not. We have to upgrade the high pressure fuel pumps on our kit as from our development we found that the stock ones where only good for around 565 bhp, this alone should tell you what other kits may be running as nobody else is changing them as part of the kit.
Forums can be great things in this day and age when things are researched correctly and facts are given. However forums are not so good when we get threads like this where people are posting up misinformed information portraying it to be fact when they really need to do a little more research and get the correct information before posting.
Anyway, Nice to meet you all and now that we have found this forum we will be happy to answer any questions about our kit that we can. 
Welcome deltav!!
Quick question - is the compressor map for the 91 different from the 81? If yes, do you have a copy of the map?
Yea, it’s different. The 91 is apparently ~10% more capacity according to the rotes site. Here is it’s compressor map:
http://www.bimmerboost.com/images/imported/2012/02/C3991-1.png
Here’s the same blower used on a E9x M3:
http://www.bimmerboost.com/content.php?2161-Another-contender-enters-the-E9X-M3-S65-V8-supercharger-ring-Evolve-automotive-supercharger-kit-teaser
Welcome Deltav. Thanks for sharing the info here. It will be helpful and beneficial for us to have someone directly related to the projects being discussed on this site.
+1. Thanks for clearing up some details. It’s normal for info to get skewed as it travels from ear to ear and only when the source pipes up can we get some proper clarity.
That said, when are you guys going to the track? We want to see some 1/4 mile times (and since you guys are really good at making videos, it would be nice to get it on tape and make it all cool and pretty. I love watching those).
Hi YEP, as maddog has already said its rated to around 10% more airflow than a c38-81, Results can vary though, for example; on a recent project we tested a c38-81 on a V8 engine and and then straight afterwards swaped to a c38-91. this change alone saw a 1.8psi gain at the top end. which on that particular project was worth about 37-38bhp.
We where due to go to santa pod last weekend with our s5 and 2 rs4’s, unfortunatly dues to doug at mrc being ill, the other rs4 customer being stuck at work in scotland, and us having a bit of a issue with our clutch we didnt make it. I belive we are planning to get down there in the next couple weeks if the weather is good.
A few things to quickly discredit you
1 due to you possibly not understanding how a supercharger works let me help you. If the Vortech supercharger is running 38% slower but still able to make more PEAK flow. How would you even justify what you just said. So if at 8000rpm the vortech flows say 1150cfm and is still at the 70% efficiency range and then at (lets just say for conversation sake) at 4000 its at 600cfm@ 25000 @80% efficiency that would make more flow in the mid range then you and it would also be more efficient then you. So maybe you would be better off not making blind claims to attempt to sell your product. Because now you just showed that you don’t have credibility.
-
tested on 3 different dynos that all have the best interests of seeing the massive amount of money spent at the shops to not be a waste. when you look at MRC and its supporting shops along with all the shops that you hope to sell this kit. Your results are potentially no different then what the PES kits were.
-
this has nothing to do with anything. Saying you need a fuel pump upgrade doesn’t mean you actually require one. The first APR supercharger kits needed said they required one as well. Is this to tell us now that the APR kit is as good as yours due to there needing a fuel pump upgrade.
-
Its best to use facts not speculation. At this point the 3 things you used to defend your product are in no way in my opinion even useful and when you couple that with the race we just saw with the TTs car getting walked on real hard. IT potentially puts a large hole in this argument for the TTs kit being more power then a powder keg of fail.
Track times in the next few weeks will help make the point better then the attempts of late. We are all excited to see how things pan out. Im not saying the TTs kit isn’t great or dosn’t have great potential. Just taking note that will all the claims being made and all the great things that are being spoken the above are points you used to defend the kit.
welcome to AR
[quote]Regarding dyno plots and bhp numbers. Someone has said how ‘we’ claim 600+ on our tuners dyno
[/quote]
well…you (and MRC) did make the ‘claim’. Further, a dyno doesn’t mean much. I mean there are people on this forum who have operated dynos before…and they’ll be the first to tell you they can produce whatever results they want. Not saying you are making up numbers…just saying that dyno numbers don’t sell kits on this forum. You’ll sell plenty of kits splashing 600 hp numbers around on RS246 and on a5oc as the general consensus there is that anything a tuner says is true and can be believed, no matter what the claim or cost. You probably saw this when the guys were all fooled by the PES M90 kits. Not a very sharp drawer of knives…but lots of nice, trusting folks. When I posted a compressor map and called out PES on the disconnect between the M90/MP90 capabilities vs. their claims, I was banned. Further, crank hp dynos are not something we put much stock in over here. We’re more interested in performance proof than anything. Show us a timeslip worthy of a 600 hp 3950 lb car (i.e. around 11.5 @ 125 mph) on a pump gas file, at Santa Pod, and we’ll all be impressed. Trust me.
[quote]1. More to the point, the customer in question actually upgraded to the TTS kit from the pes m112 kit. 2. Was the video done before of after he upgraded? 3. What gear did he try racing in? 4. Did he lift early? ect ect
[/quote]
- the Benz guy claimed it was a TTS Rotrex setup
- after he upgraded, obviously…(that’s what was claimed)
- he was in 3rd gear, starting at around 5000 RPM from the looks of it. Watch closely.
- He didn’t appear to lift until he was soundly trounced
He’s your customer (MRC’s I guess)…why not just contact him and ask him if this is bogus or was filmed on his M90 kit, etc.
[quote]We have to upgrade the high pressure fuel pumps on our kit as from our development we found that the stock ones where only good for around 565 bhp, this alone should tell you what other kits may be running as nobody else is changing them as part of the kit.
[/quote]
not true. Two of the kits on the first page of this thread have upgraded fuelling setups, other than your own. You shouldn’t speak for JHM or AMD…
As for forums, and people being misinformed. Nobody is perfect. Hell you just posted misinformation about TTS being the only kit with upgraded fuel pump. Should we muzzle you and prevent you from providing input? Of course not. Fortunately there are some informed people on this big bad forum to correct you and set the record straight. 
I sasy this in jest. Try not to be so defensive or to indict the forum so quickly. This thread contains more information and truth about the various supercharger kits than any other thread on any forum on the internet…and this is just the tip of the iceberg (this thread’s going to really develop over time).
Get out there and provide some proof of your achievements. So far your car is dyno fast (600 dyno hp), nurburgring slow (8:30 or 30 seconds slower than stock) and pbox fast (although when asked for the pbox data file none of horsepower or doug @ MRC or djpesrs4 would/could provide it. They all became computer illiterate when asked. That’s maybe a co-incidence, but after being burned (badly ) by PES and VF and MOTODYNE and ASP etc…we’re all hesitant to proclaim you some great champion of Audi superchargers. Your timeslips, and videos to verify that Santa Pod run, as well as the verification on 6speedonline of your pbox 60-130 mph times will help that. Anyway, great to have you aboard. Forgive us for being tough.
Good luck!
Well Saki, You have the flow charts from all the manufacturers and Rotrex’s flows enough for more than 600 bhp so unless we have done a bad job then its highly probable that the figures are realistic. The Dynapak wheel figures are also stout. The fact that customers have removed other units to have ours installed and cannot believe the improvement says we have something the others don’t. So all thats left is the 1/4 mile times. Its february in England. Last Sunday I hoped that at least one TTS kit would get an outing but I woke to snow on the ground so didn’t even bother driving up there. As it was nobody else did. The tracks open again this Sunday, My New JHM Pressure plate is on its way in and I have a few days to bed things down. If its dry believe me I will be at the Pod trying my hardest.
Not that I’m insinuating that you’re kit doesn’t make good power, but people have moved on from PES/VF kits to proper bolt ons/tunes and have said the same thing.
I just watched the Top Gear episode where they pit the new Ferrari FF against the Bentley Continental GT 4.0 TT V8 in snow/ice. To test straight line speed? They plowed out a 1/4 mile to test straight line speed. And it occurred to me - ever seen a dyno on Top Gear?
Yes, in several episodes… However, they were using it to test how much power the cars they had purchased have lost over time.
Well, there was that one episode that Hampster had an old Mustang dynoed to see if it still had it claimed HP ;). But that is the only episode that I know of.
Edit - lqmeh beat me to the response…
They did it in the episode they all bought older BMW 328’s if I recall correctly as well.
Good show HORSEPOWER. Your chosen blower’s compressor map does indeed look strong. I tried to estimate hp on the kit with some grade 6 math a couple of pages ago. Blower looks legit.
I hope MRC is up to it (tuning).
P.S. Muzzle deltaV. His attitude is shit.
The youth of today ;D
Seriously DeltaV is a proud guy who knows that his design works and will defend to the hilt. Remember MRC are only selling the TTS kit because they have tried all the others and didn’t like what they saw. On trying ours they did like it so decided to sell it. They make a great job of mapping so we are happy to supply them. They would not entertain it if they didn’t like it.
I’m sure he is. I just think he has to remember that slinging inaccurate facts and denouncing the posts of the customers on a forum because they don’t see the world his way aren’t good for business. Hopefully he understands that this skepticism in the marketplace is born out of a history of failures in supercharged 4.2 Audis. This is healthy because if you guys are legit (which your hardware appears to definitely be) your kit will stand head and shoulders above the rest and will be rewarded by this skepticism.
‘Passing the test’ will be a boon for your business because it will be supported in the open forums while the pretenders will be knocked out. If everyone hugged each other and sang koombayah while trusting every product on the market, you wouldn’t be able to differentiate yourselves from PES or VF or Motodyne or ASP etc.
Hi Sorry but in my mindless ranting the other night I totally forgot to respond to this.
I will attempt to do so in a calm collected manner This is only based on what I know and understand and I am more than open to being corrected as most of my experience is with the rotrex units. Please correct me if the physics apply differently to other superchargers.
What I meant by this is that as far as the different size rotrex superchargers compare to each other It is sometimes more beneficial to midrange efficiency to run a slightly smaller but faster spinning supercharger trim.
For example, When you have the 2 comparison maps, you should draw the WOT working line on the maps. If you did this for both Then you ‘should’ probably see that the line on the Vortech map has lower pressure ratios at the corresponding S/C speed. (Does anyone have a good image of the v3si comp map that I can see?)
The reason is that a larger slower running compressor wheel will have more of an exponential boost increase when maxing out, whereas in comparison the faster spinning c38-91 will have a more linear characteristic.
This is why when designing a kit for say a smaller size engine a C15-60 should have better mid-range than a C30-64 if they have the same max speed boost.
A smaller compressor wheel such as the C38-91, that has almost the same peak airflow as the larger v3si needs to end up in the right part of the map, passing through the high efficiency islands with good boost, and curved rpm –lines.
The larger impeller spinning to only 52k is only used more in the left side of the map. When going from right to left, you pass through lower efficiency in comparison.
I hope that kind of makes sense? (And if not…be gentle with me)
This isn’t really the case with us. MRC’s dyno then absolutely yes, you could say it is in there best interest. however we feel very confident that there results are realistic as we have seen lots of figures on stock and all states of tune and those results seem to be very comparable to what other people get elsewhere.
The second dyno was at Evolve automotive on there dyno dynamics rollers. They tried to do the fairest test they could and I am sure that if I asked for it they could supply me with the raw dyno file so you can see all the correction factors and road speed ect used. This should then show that nothing was tampered with in a dodgy manor. Evolve currently have nothing to do with us as far as products that we sell, so it would not have been in there interest to exaggerate the numbers. They merely wanted to see what one of these superchargers where capable of on there own rollers so they could be happy that they where operating the dyno and new if the numbers where real or not.
Last but not least, dyno number 3. This was on a dyno pack hub dyno at advanced motorsport. This is very close to us so it is very convenient for us to use now and again to confirm numbers as we do not own our own 4wd dyno (just a 2wd one) Again, this company does not stock any of our products so would have nothing to gain by exaggerating numbers.
I must admit that I wasn’t aware to the extent at which people where this sceptical of supercharger kits due to past history, I certainly have not got this vibe on the other forums which is why I was a little taken back when I entered this one to what seemed to me to be a vendetta against wanting our product to be any good. However upon re-reading allot of posts I realise as said previously that I did come in a big aggressive.
All said and done we hope we can prove to everyone very soon that this kit is not another product that will ultimately disappoint. We have worked incredibly hard to ensure this product is the very best we can produce. I hope to have some or hopefully all of you guys in a position where you are happy with the proof we supply in the near future and that hopefully we can restore a little faith in supercharger kits for the 4.2 fsi engine.