RS5 Juddering, Rough start when cold, Bad camshaft sensor

[RS5Aspirant]

When I got my 2013 RS5 early 2023, it had noise in the differential. At one point the TPMS, sport diff AWD, and ABS lights all came on the dash at the same time. Took it to the shop and after 2 days of testing they couldn’t duplicate the problem, and the car was running fine. Around Oct-Nov the same issue happened again, I park the car for a couple of days all the lights go away, and the car drives fine just like before. I thought the bad differential caused all 3 lights to come on since there was a message on the dash stating sport diff has problem…etc. After several months of searching, I finally found one in an Audi repair shop with only 29K miles, came with 2 years warranty and had the shop install it as well.

The diff was installed on 8 Dec 2023. A week later, all 3 lights came back on. Took the car back to the shop and VCDS found intermittent fault codes, once they cleared the codes and tested all different modules turned out to be P106 Manifold / Barometric Pressure Sensor G71.

Replaced the sensor and since then none of the 3 lights have come back on. However, when I got the car back, it started to have some kind of juddering intermittently mostly occurring when shifting from 1st to 2nd gear or downshifting when coming to a stop when the car was cold. Took it back to the shop and another VCDS, and no codes or anything but they said it looks like the mechatronic software needed adaptation. They did but then the result was this message: “The entered SVM code was checked successfully and requires no changes to control modules”. The juddering almost stopped but not completely. Car was driving fine and juddering restarted again and this time regardless if the engine was cold or warm, and more noticeable at downshift. It feels like the car is confused when down shifting and it just does a light kick on downshift but can’t tell if it’s from 3rd to 2nd or 2nd to 1st gear.

Sometime late January 2024 the engine check light came on while driving back from work. 20 miles into driving the light disappeared. No behavior change in the car so didn’t care. About 3 weeks ago I started to hear and feel rough starts idling in the high RPM until it warms up and engine is back to a smooth operation. At the same time I started to smell the catalytic converter sulphur from the exhaust when I floor it, which I haven’t had the catalytic smell prior.

Couple of days ago the engine light came back on and this time stayed on; I don’t have the VCDS yet so took it to an autopart shop and they hooked their code reader up and the following codes came up:

1- P0341 camshaft sensor A Circuit Range / Performance B1.
2- 4113 No DTS definition found See service manual.
3- 10530 No DTS definition found See service manual.

Does the B1 stands for Bank1, if so, which side is bank 1, driver or passenger side?

Any idea what the other two codes are?

Do you recommend changing both camshaft sensors at the same time or replacing the bad one only.

Is the juddering due to the camshaft sensor or it’s mechatronic related?

I watched a YouTube how to replace the sensor and I think I can do it myself but any suggestion which supplier has a better quality part?

I haven’t checked the throttle bodies yet to see how dirty, I read here that sometimes rough idle is because of dirty throttle body.

The car has been sitting since 3 days ago and I just started it to record the engine noise and noticed that the check engine light is gone, but still rough cold start. (Have a clip of the engine with cold start but the site supports image upload only).

Appreciate any advice and thank you in advance.

[Bleach]

If you check your throttle bodys…also check the resistance from the 6 wires coming from each one as I had an issue that was throwing up similar errors…replacedc12 wires in total and all was good…just a thought

[Ape_Factory]

If it turns out to be the sensors, stick with OEM. Aftermarket ones don’t always have the right resistance and can cause issues.

B1 is bank 1, left side if facing the front of the car. The VCDS should tell you which sensor it is, intake or exhaust. The intake side is super easy to change. The exhaust requires removal and bending back of the heat shield which can be a pain.

Oil level can also have an effect and wiring, as mentioned earlier, can often be a culprit when the car’s been worked on.

[hahnmgh63]

From sitting in the car looking forward, Bank 2 is the Left side and Bank 1 is the right side. This applies to all Audi ‘V’ engines.
From page 299 of the factor service manual but listed in multiple locations in the manual: 8-cylinder direct injection engine (4.2 ltr. 4-valve, RS 4,
RS 5) Engine ID CFSA
Cylinder bank 1 (rightside):

❑ Cylinder bank 2 (leftside):

[RS5Aspirant]

Thank you everyone for the responses. Here is an update with my RS5:
I got my VCDS and plugged it to the car and had two codes only:

• P0341/4113 camshaft position sensor (CPS)
• 10530 EVAM small leak detected.

Diagnostic with the non-VCDS tool showed the CPS was in bank 1. The VCDS scan just showed the code, no mention of which bank!

Throttle bodies needs cleaning especially the passenger side. Thanks to Ape Factory’s numerous videos I was able to remove both TB successfully. (the picture is before taking TB out, it’s dirtier in the inside)

Checked spark plugs while at it just in case and Houston we have a problem:
Removed the spark plug for cylinder 5 and it’s pretty bad as you can tell from the picture. Well, the bigger problem there is oil in the coil housing. (Thank you, hahnmgh63, for the cylinder diagram) Plugs for Cylinder 4, 6, and 7 have oil in them, still trying to remove the coil for cylinder 8 but it’s stuck, coil puller tool arrives on Friday.

So for now, I have inserted paper towels in the coil housing to absorb all the oil before removing the spark plugs. Once the oil is drained from the coil housing, I’ll then remove all the plugs and inspect for oil on the plugs, which I hope not because that means a valve cover gasket is leaking, right?

I appreciate any comment or advice what to do if there would be oil on the spark plugs especially if this is a DIY or I need to take it to a shop.

[RS5Aspirant]

thank you, bleach, for the tip.

[Ape_Factory]

Any updates on this? For oil in the plug valleys, it’s likely the valve covers leaking on those cylinders that have oil in them. I don’t hear of owners replacing the gasket often but do on occasion.

Can’t really tell much from the plug other than the gap, eyeballing it off a photo on the internet, looks a bit on the large side. I tend to change mine every 25,000 imperial miles.

[Bleach]

no problem my friend

[RS5Aspirant]

Here is an update:
Replaced all spark plugs, they were all the originals that came with the car, can’t believe they’ve never been replaced. I replaced the camp shaft sensor for bank1. I also replaced the gas cap rubber O-ring instead of replacing the entire cap and that took care of 10530 EVAM code. Flaps on the TBs were clearly not closing all the way but after cleaning, the flaps closed completely. I ran into the trouble of TB adaptation using the Ross-Tech method. Then found this on their WiKi [https://forums.ross-tech.com/index.php?threads/17807/] when Ape faced the same issue back in 2019. Ran the car a bit and voltage went to 12.4 and still won’t adapt. Heck with it I said, drove it the next day, ran another full scan and all codes were gone. Guess the flaps adapted by themselves. Car still has some vibration at cold start but have no error codes. It also has a soft judder on downshift when coming to a full stop, maybe from 4th to 3rd or 3rd to 2nd gear, it’s intermittent. Can’t remember if it was on this site or Audizine I read that the intermittent juddering or hesitation is related to the mechatronic. I think I will just drive and monitor for now.

As for the oil leaking into the chamber of the coils, did the process of elimination. I drained and cleaned the chambers, replaced the spark plugs, and drove it for a while. Checked again today, and it seems it’s still leaking and likely valve cover seal needs to be replaced.

Ordering the seal today. Car will also go to the Audi dealership in 3 weeks for the ECM recall. I will post another update after I replace the seal and ECM update.

[dhuddleson]

Yes, it does look like valve cover seals need to be replaced. Hopefully that stops the oil seeping into the spark plug holes. I don’t think you told us how many miles/KMs on your 2013 RS5, but if you think the plugs were never changed from new, the current mileage would be interesting to know… Factory recommendation for RS5 spark plugs is 85k KM (55k miles).

This Audi emissions recall is rather generic about what will get updated, ECM and/or TCM. It would be interesting (to me!) to know what version/firmware of each is in your car before and after that update. I think my vehicle has never had any ECM or TCM updates (I am not original owner either!). I think I have quoted my ECM/TCM details somewhere in this forum in the past in fact.

[hahnmgh63]

Before you do the ECM update, check some of the other forums. There is some real negative feedback from a couple of RS5 owners over on Audizine. CEL’s the dealer can’t see to fix. Also some negative feedback from R8 owners that got the same recall. Why be in a rush to get it done?

[RS5Aspirant]

UPDATE: Replaced valve cover seals from ECS on 9 June. Drove it for about 20 miles and the car was driving very smooth. Drove it again on 10 June and started to have soft jumps intermittently especially when slowing down, not coming to a full stop, and then accelerating again. Drove again on 11 June and at one point slowing down and accelerating again and the car jumped like a goat, never had this before. Ran a full scan and have this code again:
4113 CPS(G40) Intermittent - Not confirmed (P0341 Implausible signal)
Voltage terminal was 13.59

I replaced this sensor 3 weeks ago but wondering if it’s voltage related since the car has been sitting in the garage for a while.

No error lights on the dashboard cluster, will keep driving, and see if the goat jumps again

[RS5Aspirant]

Thank you, hahnmgh63, you brought up a good point. I did read the R8 forum and one owner had a lot of problems reported after he did the ECM update. I also found this in the RS5 forum on Audizine which also one person reported problems after the update: https://www.audizine.com/forum/showthread.php/990230-US-Recall-for-2013-2018-Audi-inc-my-2014-RS5

So I decided not to update for now.

[RS5Aspirant]

I bought the car with 83K miles on it.
I’ll drive it for a few weeks and check the spark plug chambers and hopefully see no oil. I’ll post another update.

[RS5Aspirant]

thanks for the ECM note.

[RS5Aspirant]

18 June UPDATE: drove 120 miles in various highway speed. Stopped for a couple of hours, turned on engine and started vibrating with check engine light flashing. Turned engine off, waited couple of minutes, started the engine and everything was fine. Drove for few miles and stopped for another couple of hours, and same issue appeared again and this time both engine and EPC lights came on. Following error codes came up:

4113 Campshaft position sensor (G40). Voltage terminal 12.675
10203 Random/multiple Cylinder Misfire detected. Voltage terminal 13.688
10594 Cylinder 4 P0304 Misfire detected. Voltage terminal 13.688
10205 Cylinder disabling. Voltage terminal 13.923

Swapped coil 4 and 3 to see if the fault follows, started the engine and no misfire, no check engine or EPC lights on, no vibration. Cleared the codes and drove 120 miles back home.

However, I still have the jumping or jerking issue. I did this test: Shifting P to D without pushing gas pedal, car starts moving and soft jump/jerk to 2nd gear. P to D with pushing the gas pedal and the jerk is harder. The jerking also happens when slowing down to come to a full stop and re-accelerating but this is intermittent. It appears to me it’s TB flaps related that they never adapted since I cleaned the TB. I used the VCDS to do the adaptation and I got the “Aborted - Safety” error.

Checked battery and it is from Oct 2018 so almost 6 years old. My last Auto Scan showed battery voltage start/end 12.3 volts and have been driving the car everyday since 15 June.

Does anyone think above mentioned issues might all be battery related especially I’ve had intermittent fault codes of passenger side DRL, passenger side seat motor Fore/After adjustment, driver side heated mirror, luggage compartment light (open or short to ground)?

Appreciate any advice.

[audis6]

Hi, I cant say. I have s6.

But regarding battery, i never used battery with code, usualy i buy battery thats fit tractors and not doing any battery code change.
Due my work, car is sitting for months without start and battery get drained, now it will be 2 months without driving.
Mostly time when i come home i do jumper start with small portable power bank and car runs fine and drove away without issue, and recharge durring driving but sometimes i plug charger at home if I dont need car same day
Over carista i delete fault codes due insufficient battery voltage, (on all components) but even with those errors it drive normally.

Top battery from tractor, bottom audi

[TontoLoidRS5]

to me it is oil in the cylinder(s) causing the vibration etc. the battery might have been low on charge but seems ok. there might be oil in the intake as well.

camshaft position sensor could be likely: oil level or low battery. in this case i guess oil level.

swap them as they get harder to remove the longer they are on there. i dont remembr if was easier with engine warm or cold

[TontoLoidRS5]

code: if oil intake: replace pcv valve on the same side there is oil.

you can check by loosening and standing the upper intake manifold on its short side (the side where th tbs are) oil will seep out there after a while

[Ape_Factory]

Curious if you used genuine Audi camshaft sensors? Aftermarket sensors cause issues. I’d also check the wiring harness leading up to the cam sensors for any anomalies.

On the battery, you can disconnect the battery monitoring system without harming anything and without producing a dash light. It’s the two wire plug on the negative battery terminal at the battery. You’ll lift up the small tab and then separate the two halves. That’ll run the alternator like a normal car. If things improve, you’ll know it’s likely a charging issue related to coding. If you have an AGM battery, you’ll need to code it in and reconnect the battery monitoring system as they like higher voltage levels when charging. I run without the battery monitoring system with a lightweight lithium ion battery from Antigravity and I’ve done so for about four years now. I’m a dealer for them and they’re pricey but to me, well worth it for the built-in jump starting and 40 pound weight loss.

Usually a cylinder deactivation and high misfire count on one cylinder is an indicator of an injector issue. When you pulled the lower intake manifold to clean the flaps, did the injectors come up or move at all in their bores? If so, you could have compromised the teflon combustion chamber seals.

The one time I had cylinder deactivation, it was an injector. One cylinder had considerably more misfires than the others and had gone bad. The part number ended in AC and the newer injectors end in AD and anecdotally, seem to be more reliable.

If you’re still getting cylinder deactivation and stumbles, I’d stop driving the car immediately and replace the injector at least on that one cylinder. They’re very expensive these days having gone from about $100 each to $300 today.