S4 sees track time! Road course mini review

B8 S4
#1

Visited Shannonville this past Sunday in the german Camry.
It was pretty awesome–the car surpassed my every expectation. For context, I was doing a best lap time of 2:04.9 in the Boss. The S4 in stock configuration did 2:06.3.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=viqCEFH8Ahk

As expected, the greatest thing to manage with this car is understeer and keeping front tires in check. Once this car begins to push, I either maintain or reduce steering angle, and lift. Unfortunately, the rear end doesn’t tend to rotate off power, so the only way the car maintains the line is through the scrubbing of the front tires. Not the fastest way, but that’s what you’re dealing with when you have awd, stock alignment and 55/45 weight distribution. I countered this with a lot of trail braking, and really chucking the car into the corner to get it pointed to the apex. Once the machine is pointed at the apex, you can have fun with the go-pedal. Roll onto the gas hard and the car has a mild rear steer effect at high speeds, tightening the line as you power through a corner. This is the greatest advantage of the car. As a result of the torque vectoring rear diff, one can get on power not only earlier than usual–but also much harder than usual. The action of rolling into the throttle can be much swifter with this car. It simply slingshots out of the corner and eats up the pavement really rapidly. There are a number of corners where I hit WOT the instant I’m pointed to the apex. These corners were turn 4 (the moss carousel exit), turn 5, turn 11 & 12.

Brakes actually have better initial bite than the Boss did, and less brake dive. I was more confident in being aggressive with my braking and really compressing my braking zones–despite the car being 4000lbs and hitting 180 down the back straight (per my lap timer), I’m hitting the brakes at the 75 ft mark. Stock brakes are stunning with Castrol SRF. I could always trust my pedal. No brake checks needed.

Coles notes: surprisingly fast. Expected entry understeer. Exit is where the car shines. Sport diff is worth it. Lots of lap traffic, excuse my cursing :smiley:

A more indepth drive review on my blog :slight_smile:

#2

Good stuff. Shannonville is an Audi’s tire’s worst nightmare, so it’s good to hear you were able to do so well. There’s a guy trying to sell a spot at a MoSport big track event on AZ. I think he wants 350 or 400 bucks.

p.s. 180 km/h aka 110 mph for our American friends

#3

Very cool review, love to hear the take on this car from more experienced track drivers. I too had an opportunity to wring out the car on a road course this past weekend at Gingerman. Maybe we should start a track driving thread like on AZ? The car always wows any instructor I’ve had in there.

#4

From the sounds of it you are running stock brakes with fluid?

If so, they held up no problems? That’s awesome to hear.

#5

Drob23: yes, I agree! We should start a road course thread and talk tire pressures/temps, brakes…all that good stuff!

Jones2012s4: I’m on stock brakes w/ the exception of fluid–correct. The pads are honestly not the best, as their initial bite pales in comparison to a true track pad. But for a factory car with sliding calipers, the brakes exceeded my expectations. One has to manage the brakes a lot. Driven in the “club racer” type style, the brakes would be cooked. I was off the brakes as much as possible, and went hard/deep into braking zones at every corner. Sometimes I’d hit ABS and need to back off a tad. But that’s the way to go. Sounds counter-intuitive bc at face value, driving like that is expectedly harder on brakes. However, braking last minute and really abruptly means you are on the brakes less, and less heat is built up in the system.

Imagine that you are reducing time spent on the brake pedal by 0.5 seconds per braking zone. Over a course of a lap, that’s a number of seconds that are are saving from touching the brake pedal–that’s a great reduction in heat generation for the brakes. They teach this style of braking in racing schools–albiet it’s primarily effective only in the dry, as one has to be much smoother in the wet.

#6

Was this just an open track day? What was up with the lack of point byes? That red S4 didn’t let you by for a while…

Regarding the brakes - I think a more advanced driver will use a lot less of them, assuming a novice is still pushing the car. Trail braking and threshold braking should inject a lot less heat. Glad to hear the stock setup held up for you, did you happen to hear from other drivers any kind of fade problems? I’ve found it’s all track dependent. I could barley smell my brakes after sessions at mid-ohio while at Gingerman I melted the little rubber protection hose around the caliper fluid lines (the steel line that brings fluid from one side from the other at the bottom of the caliper).

#7

And forgot to mention that knowing the course beforehand helps a lot. I’m sure one will over-brake the car until becoming completely comfortable with the line.

#8

Yeah it was an open track day. The group I went with is notorious for not upholding rules, and you can tell that there are a lot of inexperienced drivers at the track who do not know how to let people pass (not staying their line, expecting people to go by in their blind spot etc etc).

Other drivers have expressed that the stock setup is not that good – the red car in the video is actually my friend, and he upgraded from stock to stoptech. However, he brakes club racer style and he did boil his fluid on this track day (despite BBK). I had no brake smell at this track – but I am very familiar with it. It is however, notoriously bad on brakes and tires. No real opportunity to cool the brakes. You’re on them all the time, and the straights are much too short.

The S4 is honestly out of its element at Shannonville. Much too tight of a “street style” course to truly suit the car. It’s primarily civics/integras and miatas/s2000s which really rock at this track.

#9

Cannot edit post.
Obligatory understeer picture included :smiley:

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-xNV5eR_Ko2c/U_9-es0Wm_I/AAAAAAAAAfg/_OaLlz5_cAM/s1600/10468688_899481770071556_1630667620162088184_n.jpg

#10

That’s a really nice pic man, looks like you were really ripping, prob time for some sway bars ;D

#11

You missed the apex.

#12

Late Apex FTW!

#13

drob23 is right. It was a late apex. This turn lead onto the front straight. If you early apex, all you’re doing is scrubbing off speed and lowering your exit speed for the straight. Where one decides to apex has to do with setting up for the next object – beit a corner or a straight. There will be instances where you do it late/textbook style/early. In this case, I didn’t miss an apex :slight_smile:

#14

[quote=“drob23,post:10,topic:6020”]
That’s a really nice pic man, looks like you were really ripping, prob time for some sway bars ;D
[/quote

Yeah needs a rear bar.
What setup do you have and how do you like it?
I was considering just an H&R rear (that is the only rear I can only find by itself).
Not caring about the front right now, as my priority is to get it more camber and to change the toe entirely. But up for options depending on feedback :slight_smile:

#15

I have and love the EuroCode rear bar, would highly recommend it. I have the rear set to stiff and front set to soft. The stock rear bar was really tiny with the ADS. I need to put a build thread together ;D

Here’s me with some decent leaning

https://farm6.staticflickr.com/5552/14806816489_15e1bac641_b.jpg

#16

Just messing with you, and your understeer comment. :slight_smile:

#17

I’ll play too!

From my previous car:

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-CyHgZD7Qfes/TsgsFgQCkNI/AAAAAAAADyw/yRaeC0FBRhk/w1253-h835-no/Quattrofest%2B2011-9982.jpg

Stock suspension

#18

Psyk - do you still have the car?
You are killing it out there - check out that suspension loading!

Drob23 - how did you like the bars not from a lean reduction perspective, but handling balance?
I like the sets like hotchkiss and the one you have…however, I really don’t think I need the front bar. IMO turn-in can be improved with a more aggressive alignment, and what is really missing on this chassis is off-power rotation. How is that aspect of dynamics since you’ve put on the eurocode kit?

Of course, I might be singing a different tune even with camber arms and a new alignment…but for now I dont think I need the front sway.

PPS - what are your rear shocks set it?

#19

Bahahaha. My friend in the red car did miss a couple from going in too hot, and yes, that understeer :slight_smile:

#20

Love seeing these S4’s in their natural habitats, sure wouldn’t mind seeing a similar shot with your RS5 ;D

Handling balance is fantastic, I’ve changed a lot on the suspension, so it’s hard to isolate the cause + effect on the track. For the street I loved the sway bars when I first threw the rear one on, but more for the flat handling on quick on/off ramps. The rear bar is a huge upgrade, the front is OK. I need to dial in some more negative camber, the sidewalls are wearing pretty bad from track days.

Don’t be me wrong, it’s still tricky to get the car to rotate into the corner, but I’m still a noob (not trail braking yet) so there’s probably a ways to go before I can give you a more educated answer. But the car is incredibly capable of hanging in the turns with some “more capable” cars ;D

https://farm4.staticflickr.com/3853/14806919590_c06c3e1ea3_b.jpg