So how bad am I going to lose?

B8 S4
#41

^^^they don’t want to have a rush of people going to dealers looking for updates i would assume. Although if I were a dealer, I would be happy to charge you $100 for an update (labour).

JHM did that a while back. Offered free updates for everyone who sent in their ECU. They had made so many changes AND had added JHM Launch Assist to the tune…built in launch control. Not a simple rev hold feature…it was quite complicated and involved modulating the throttle on the launch. I was one of the test cars when they were developing and needed a B7. It was quite a process involving like 4 revisions to get it right. I thought it was pretty cool that they offered that for free, on a $550 tune.

#42

Apex, Will be curious to see what if anything GIAC says about the shortshifting and shift hangups that jeff is experiencing… You can bet if we ran a stellar time they would be already all over that thread but since there were some issues, no comments… Funny how that works on Vendorzine!

Thomas, Have you seen the issues Jeff mentioned on any other customers cars?

#43

Good point. Wasn’t this hangup something APR addressed 18 months ago? Or is it something that plagues all of the cars and none of the tunes correct it (not even the DSG tune apparently)?

#44

I will go out testing my dads car and see if I can experience the issue.

I asked him if he has ever experienced a short shift and he said no but he has had a hang up here and there but only with the ESP on.

#45

Nah, what APR addressed was the issue that the pulley/pulley tune created when it was first released… I believe most/all the DSG cars experience a hangup occasionally… Mine does it maybe once out of every 10-20 passes or so… Jspazz and Bear have suggested that it is a result of wheel spin and it maybe but I’m not 100% sold on that… I know Austin mentioned on one post that their tune would prevent it but if Jeff is getting it that must not be the case? The short shifting is even more surprising as my car never does that… I know the 13’s shift earlier as a result of the stock tune and gearing changes Audi made but haven’t heard of that issue from 10-12 cars…

#46

yeah, the short shifting is very strange. I can understand the ‘sport’ mode shifting a hair earlier (the stock hp goes flat so it’s probably beneficial to shift before redline) but the fact that when you don’t want it to, it just randomly shifts at like 5000 RPM is frustrating. Imagine you NAIL a launch and cut a great 60 and 330 and then as you go to 4th it shifts at 5000.

#47

I had the 1-2 hangup when I first got the GIAC Stg2 flash back in the spring but have since then gotten a revised flash and DSG tune. Aside from some street launches and sprinted driving I have not seen the issue but I am not 100%. I have been patiently waiting for the weather to get better to do some vbox runs and go to Englishtown.
Cannot comment on the short shifting since I have never experienced it.

#48

To help quantify my experience I would say I’ve made over 120+ passes with the S4. I’d say 60-65% of those were made without doing the mini burnout. Of those 78+ passes I’d say 30-35% of the time I had the 1-2 shift hangup (with varying degrees of intrusion). The remaining 42+ passes that were completed after doing a mini burnout had NO (zero) 1-2 shift hangup incidences.

I’d recommend the mini burnout to anyone who is experiencing the 1-2 hangup on their B8S4. At the very least you may notice the number of incidence reduce…

#49

http://youtu.be/YEHnhwUBvxo

Here’s a 1-2 hang up (plus a host of other lights…)

Prime, the wheelspin issue is a theory of course, but I can also say when I about 12 stock runs on crappy old tires I ALWAYS had the 1-2 hang up and/or short shift. It could also be exaggerated I guess by having uneven wear, I.e different diameters or exaggerated camber wear and this tripping the DSG into seeing the wheels at different speeds.

I can guarantee it mostly went away when I swapped tires, I also could get it to happen if I lined up off-line (again possibly due to different wheel speeds).

All theory. Not sure what a DSG tune would do to improve that, mostly they are concerned with increasing pressures, decreasing clutch slip, faster shifts, increased redline in our case. If the short-shift and hang up are safeguards (ie upshift to protect against excessive loading damage to the diffs), I can’t see anyone removing them as a part of a DSG tune.

A while ago REVO claimed to fix the 2-3 shift “slippage” in an ECU tune update. Weird, huh?

#50

When we took Austin’s car to Sacramento before he had the DSG flash, the car was having issues with the 1-2 rev hangup. The DSG flash seemed to get rid of that issue, but his car has only been tested on the street since the DSG flash (as the weather hasn’t made it worth it to trek up to Sacramento).

On a few other customer cars, there did seem to be a correlation between the hangup and traction. When the tires really grabbed, the shifts were perfect. I’m wondering if the claimed bald tires affected this, although the 60’ time makes it seem like the tires hooked pretty well. We’ll have a few cars going to the track in October/November to run with the DSG flash, so I will definitely post some more updates then. Hopefully with a more favorable DA, we can have a better comparison of the DSG flash ET benefits.

#51

Not as easy to spin(slip) on the street as it is at the strip.

#52

Ron, question; did you ever have your blower ported and polished? I remember you talking about it early on when you had gotten your B8 and wondered if you ever had it done. If I remember correctly you had initially thought it could have possibly yielded 20-30hp. If not, was there strong reason why you didn’t have it done? Just curious.

#53

Thomas, Thanks… Not to be redundant but I appreicate your honesty… Sounds like will know more soon with more people visiting the strip… Maybe it’s because I run good/low mile tires and tweak the pressure based on conditions but I see little to no spin so maybe that is truly the reason and it’s why I have had less 1-2 hangups?

#54

Yes, we should have some more information soon. I don’t blame you for asking questions, I would do the same thing. Once the weather cools down, we will have an apples to apples comparison of Austin’s car at the dragstrip. Always on that quest for good DA lol

#55

Sorry, been a busy meeting day… No, I haven’t ported the blower… The older Eaton blowers yeilded nice gains but I was told by a few that the new TVS blowers don’t yeild as much, however, I know some of the ZL1,CTSV and ZR1 guys do it… So I wasn’t sure however when we took the TB off it became clear that the inlet elbow and TB were probably bigger bottlenecks then the potential for porting… Honestly, I think the jury is still out on quite a few things that could be improved and net results… IE porting, bigger TB, bigger intake, etc. I think this is what GIAC may have been mentioning when they said they will look to get more out of the current blower… I also figured we would have a new blower out by now… In hindshight I should have spent the $500 or so to port it and maeasured the results… Sorry!

#56

Lol prime I bought my car with more miles on it than your car has now. Are you even at 5 digits yet?

#57

[quote=“Thomas1,post:54,topic:4592”]
Thanks! Just glad you signed up over here and not Austin… LOL Anyway, I here you on the DA it was mid 90s yesterday and is close to 90 today so no TNT for me tonight… Planning to make some passes in the TTRS to test the tune… Sat. is supposed to be in the 60’s so I’ll probably go then… It’s a race day so I’ll only make a few passes either way… Oct. will be here soon… Hopefully, Jeff makes the trek down and we can contribute to the discussion with some fact based runs!

#58

Gotcha. I was thinking GIAC was referring to that too, that is why I asked if you had ever had it done. Guess time will tell.

#59

I am a little upset no one invited me to the party. Being as unbiased as this place is I figured you guys would want to talk to me first hand, :frowning:

Ill be honest, this forum I already love much more than Audi-zine, this is my first Audi so I didn’t know this forum existed.

Lets clear some things up before we go any further, lot of misinformation flying around here. I will make a timeline of events.

First Quarter Mile Pass Ever(got one run in and started raining) Late October 2012
45 Degrees out, negative DA(perfect conditions)

Stock tune
AWE Exhaust
APR Intake

13.1 @ 105.9 I believe

2nd Pass(best run of 3)
85+ degrees out with a DA over 2600

Stock Tune
Roc Euro Intake
Euro-code Headers
AWE Exhaust

12.9 @ 105.6/9

Make your own conclusions from that.

OK Now that those are out of the way, you guys seem to be confused about what I am doing with my methanol.

  1. Use water/methanol(mix was to be determined) on my 93 tune with 93 gas in tank to provide cooling and octane benefits.
  2. Use Methanol on the GIAC 104 tune with 93 gas in tank to provide compensation for lower octane fuel, thus allowing me to run the 104 octane tune with pump gas.

THAT’S IT - MY ONLY GOALS

Fast forward to first set of runs with methanol

93 tune GIAC Stage II full bolts on - METHANOL OFF

12.4 @112 I believe(you guys have seen slip)

Methanol ON Still on 93 tune

12.3 at 113.6 or something it was less than a MPH increase.

Lets think, same tune, same parameters, back to back, why would the car be any faster? Methanol has less PE than gasoline, the car might not have had time or the brains to add timing in a back to back situation. So Arin’s comments about not much of an improvement are true, but out of context. Of course there wouldn’t be much of an improvement.

THEN

104 Tune with 93 in tank, car runs 12.1 at 116.5 I believe, I provided a full graph of that run, it shows the car short shifting first at only 5300RPMS!!! The slip ALSO shows that out of the runs performed that night, my 104 tune pass had the crappiest 60’, combined with a short shift into 2nd at 5300 which surely screwed my 2nd gear pull, I think is pretty good guys.

Improvement? Yes, for what I intended to do.

Future

I have been talking with Ron and he is one great guy! I cannot wait to meet him and see what are babies can do. Oct 12 is our date.

  1. We WILL be using same fuel ideally, to avoid any BS. Either URT or MS109.
  2. When I use race gas I will do passes with meth OFF, and slightly on(partial cooling effect) THAT’S IT, just to see what happens. I will be experimenting, as that’s what this whole project of mine is.

This will allow for some good runs between me and Ron.

Hopefully we can get some highway runs in to see what the upper limits of these cars are capable of.

I have to get going but more to follow.

Happy Hunting Boys!

#60

Jeff, Welcome to the forum! Again, I apologize for not mentioning it sooner… Thanks for taking the time to state the timeline of events… I really look forward to making some passes with you and comparing the cars… Will be great for the B8 crowd to see how we both perform same day, same track, same time… Win or lose it will be a good experience for both of us, for the community and most of all it will be a fun time!