Yea if anything i would think some type of venturi action would be taking place(because of the smaller diameter inlet to the tee), which would be the coolant pulling from the charger loop to the engine loop.
For what it’s worth? I have an APR CPS system. Large radiator in front of stock one, large reservoir and system is independent from the block. I had a temperature sensor installed near the exit of the APR radiator, 6 inches, and about 12 inches from the SC. The sensor reads out in a P3 gauge. 98% of the time the coolant is reading within five degrees of ambient air pressure. The only time I’ve seen higher was during back to back 1/4 mile runs when it reached 12-15F warmer than ambient as I waited in the staging area.
Can you possibly make a thread about your findings? With what I’m sure are going to be many new sales pitches from companies trying to grab market share real world information like this would be very helpful.
Hyden, there in lies the problem. Cool night, warm night, at the strip and my times are identical. 12.67 et and 107 mph. DAs 1000-2200 ft.
The only interaction between the engine loop the intercooler loop is through thermal expansion and contraction in an undivorced system. Off the top of my head, that’s probably only a hundred mL expansion on a 30° difference. At the end of a dragstrip pull, the intercooler loop maybe pulls in a hundred mL of hot fluid in an undivorced system. By the time you get back to the staging lanes and said, everything is usually heated up a little more than it was on the return road anyway. I’d have to agree that separating the system is probably the least contributing factor to cooling improvement in the CPS system.
That schematic seems to be from the 8.5
The B8 has the secondary HE linked to the pump, which is part of the stock main HE. Its all t-stat control as far as I can tell.
I need to dig into it more on the all data, when I was tracing the lines out with my bumper off it was pretty easy to see what went where and both HE units are on the SC loop.
I fitted my APR CPS and to me it looked like only one pipe from the engine’s coolant joined the plumbing to the Supercharger coolant.
http://i17.photobucket.com/albums/b89/DirkieUys/IMAG1089_zps7496a9cc.jpg
http://i17.photobucket.com/albums/b89/DirkieUys/IMAG1088_zps1be685ee.jpg
This pipe in the pic with the rubber at the end of the pipe. This sits close / behind left headlight. The addition of the electrical under the right hand headlight also seams to be a bit of a overkill.
If you follow the plumb aft of the charger , it goes to a electrical pump behind left fog light, then to a smaller radiator, then only to your supercharger cooler. After the cooler it now goes to my APR electrical pump, then back to Supercharger.
So if the engine water only goes in one way, then u have now flow from engine water through the chargers cooling. It’s just a means of topping up and maintaining the water level. It took me about 3 to 4 trips to work and back to get the right water level in the APR water reservoir. It’s been stable since.
After any driving when you undo the reservoir lid, the water is luke warm. I’ve checked after a bit of thrashing too. When you open lid, small pressure release from lid, water colder than coffee water.
If I had to do this again, I would just upgrade the Supercharger Cooler size, and leave the rest standard.
It’s got a electric pump, and a 2nd smaller cooler.
My 2 cents worth.
This,
Im the guy that has the kit installed. They did all their testing on a B8. Hopefully soon we will be going to Great Lake’s Drag Strip to do additional testing. Its also my daily driver so I can log via VAG under circumstances you guys want to see if you just walk me through the process.
Also after posting that crazy dejavu…just thought I would share.
dblearon, Here is a post with the needed logging information… I wouldn’t worry about the boost numbers, maybe just bypass… I’d log the below:
19 - Engine speed
180 - ignition advance; actual
182 - intake air temp
415-420 - IGA_AD_1_KNK
476 - air mass
535 - RFP_AV
Would be awesome if you could hit the strip and do it while making passes that way you can safely and legally log through 4th and into 5th… If not at least go through 3rd… I’ll be glad to help in anyway and intepret the logs if needed… PM me here or email me at mustanggtron@yahoo.com
Appreciate you doing this!
Let me know when you’re headed to GLD. Haven’t been in a while!
Just FYI - I believe the signal numbers changed for the B8.5’s. Names are the same however. I’ll post up what the corrections are when I get a chance.
Thanks drob! They also change on all the new releases… that’s why I always say go off the names as they don’t change…
Based on the log file I have, looks like the signal numbers for the B8.5 are
23 - Engine speed
? - ignition advance; actual
225 - intake air temp
470-475 - IGA_AD_1_KNK
? - air mass
597 - RFP_AV
Some others that I took, but maybe not interesting?
223 - Ignition Angle; actual
10 - Charge air pressure specified value-MAP_SP
2 - Accelerator position
227 - Intake manifold pressure; absolute
Oops…lol…ok well I can’t edit the above post. Wonder why they would change the numbers, kind of annoying. Will say that there are a shit load of signals, not fun to find them under pressure :o
Yeah, I hear ya… I always wait to do an update till I have time to check so I’m not scrambling at the strip…
Sorry, it is ingnition angle not advance…
1st and foremost there have been a few people stating we dont know how to test. I would like to put that to bed. this system was designed by 2 of our four engineers and testing was done the right way. Thermocouples were placed pre and post every critical component in the system; heat exchanger, supercharger, pump etc. They are not “taped to a silicone tube” but rather placed in the coolant stream like they should be.
Regarding our dyno room fans I will post a picture so you can understand the setup but when they are both running you better hold on to something. They are VERY powerful units and use a duct that channels all of that air to the front of the car. It’s pretty impressive. In less than 3 seconds the fans cycle all the air out of the room and its not a small room. If you are unfortunate enough to have the doors closed when the fans are running get help opening the door as its not easy. Just being in that room when the doors are closed is enough to cause some serious pressure in your head.
As far as why divorcing the system doesnt make sense here is what I posted from Audizine.
[quote] n theory yes you are correct that as the fluid heats and cools its going to expand and contract but its quite a bit more complicated than that. I am going to do my best to explain this without visual aids.
The connection point of the engine coolant circuit and intercooler circuit in our system and from the factory is actually the coldest point of the system. It lies at a point in the circuit just before it feeds the intercoolers at the supercharger after it has made it’s way through the triple pass radiator and the pump. For this reason there is no big pressure swings that would allow the hot engine coolant from being drawn into the intercooler circuit due its constant temperature throughout operation. This is also how the factory does it and Audi did it that way on purpose to optimize the efficiency and simplicity of the system. In fact the only time when the SC circuit is going to draw in any fluid from the overflow basin is when the car is turned off the system depressurizes. I suppose if you cooked the factory cooling system (not hard to do) you might get to a point where it would draw in but we never did that test as there was no reason for it. Does that make sense? If had you standing in from of a car it would be much easier to explain.
For testing it was all done in a dyno room and while our fans are nice they are not going to duplicate a real pull on the road. This means you can expect even better results in a real road environment. We did tests for two weeks doing 1-5 pulls, long drawn out pulls, you name it we tossed it at the car. The goal was to try and mimic how the car would be driven in the real world.
Eric
[/quote]
Thanks Eric. Fan video would be nice. Ever set them on anyone without a car in the room? That would be great. Can I suggest Saxon?
The dyno room in question:
http://o.aolcdn.com/hss/storage/fss/5ffbbcae891364d8fb963f2827081c68/Ducting.jpg
http://o.aolcdn.com/hss/storage/fss/5557a7176cf337f63548d1599f65bf75/dynofan1.jpg
that’s heavy metal!
Anyway, hope your 3.0T development goes well. IT’s a great marketplace to enter. While APR have scooped up over 1000 tuned cars over the last few years, there are tens of thousands on the roads, and lots of these 2nd and 3rd gen buyers are performance focused. Great to have some options.