is it closing the throttle plate at all? Depending on what tune I’m running mine backs the throttle down,this only happened after installing headers
its hard to really tell brian, it happens so sporadically that logging it could be difficult, maybe its hitting the specified torque limit on the ecu?
oh alright, does it happen in certain weather? any correleation with going uphill?
nope, weather was in the 60’s if i remember correctly, its been a while, and i was going down one of the flattest highway roads in the area. i use the road often for 4th gear pulls, if there are no cars theres enough room for me to completely wind out 4th gear
oh alright, its interesting… the 4th gear would be high load and the cool air would be dense so maybe its just reaching its load goal (which would be set by the tune) without needing the TB fully open at higher rpm
Prime go get the top spot. Make sure to get video and I will put you on the front page. I figgure that might stir up some of these 4.2 guys to crack the whip
so prime… what ever happened with TVS and the 1650, i thought i remember reading that some company (apr maybe?) went ahead and placed a large enough OE order.
also, did you ever look into the kenne bell blowers? i remember hearing the the blower itself is a close fit to ours?
^^^what…you sell that 4.2 car finally? Getting all tough with your 5.2 self? Now you’re better than 4.2 guys huh?
hahahahahahahahahahahaha
Rich, From what I heard from intenal Eaton sources is that Mercedes was/is looking at/testing it for their next V6FI motor… Not sure what car it would go in but probably the smaller cars like the SLK AMG and such… This was several months ago so I will have to ask my wife to follow up and see if she can find out more… Not sure if Eaton sells directly to APR as they really try to sell to the big OEM’s only, however they do sell to Rousch and a few others so it is possible, I just don’t know… If they did I highly doubt APR could order the needed volume to justify them producing the blower so it will take an OEM to get the ball rolling…
No clue on the KB… The TVS1650 is probably our best bet…
1650? First, shouldn’t you guys figure out
a) what the internals can handle
b) what the transmission(s) can handle - apparently Audi cheaped out on the manual’s clutch and flywheel…so who knows what else?
c) what the ‘max out’ performance capabilities of the 1320 on the car are by eliminating all of the restrictions and going FULL bolt on? Remember the first 4.2 S4/RS4/S5 guys that went out and bought a supercharger…only to find out they could have had 95% to 105% of the same performance gains by going full bolt ons? Why do you guys seem to be pushing to the front of the line to be the first B8 guys to ‘buy a supercharger’ (1650) without knowing what the car can do with full bolt ons? Don’t be that guy. It’s not fun. Ask Kryptonik, todeshandler, b6guy42, jbimolaS4, weeder, spinner, V8S4fun.
Besides the TVS r1650 doesn’t even exist. People talk about it like it’s sitting on a shelf somewhere waiting to be sold, but it’s not. It’s a diagram in someone’s computer at Eaton. The 1650 appears to be a slightly stretched out/bored out 1320. I could be totally wrong on all of this, but this is what it looks like to me. There’s not even a performance map for the 1650 that I can find. That tells me it doesn’t exist thus hasn’t been tested. Again, just a guess. Correct me if I’m mistaken.
Further, what if a 1650 makes enough power to start causing you guys to need an engine build to really take advantage of it? I think that’d be a waste at that point. Why not focus on maxing out the 1320 and making what you have MOST efficient rather than throwing a bunch more air/money at a system with some embedded restrictions that may stil bel hurting performance.
tune - the APR tune is (as APR have admitted) extremely basic. There are a number of reasons for this, including APR’s tuning acumen as well as the security on the ECU making it tough for them to make too many adjustments. There is a bunch left in your tune that you guys haven’t explored yet.
exhaust - from the manifold to the mufflers. Basically a bunch of products hit the market ranging from 2.25 to 2.5" with all kinds of weird bends and components and neck downs…I still haven’t seen a meaningful discussion of B8 S4 exhaust setups. As you know I’ve surfed all of the forums…maybe I’m missing it? APR talked all day about eliminating drone. AWE talked all day about how drone isn’t a big deal and how the system sounds badass. Milltek/Strat talked all day about ‘V8 sound’. Nobody talks about the specifics of making power on a 3.0 V6 with a blower that can fire 800 CFM at the motor. Maybe someone nailed the performance design. Maybe none of them did and they need 2.75" and an X. Maybe they need 2.0". Bottom line is I haven’t seen anyone approach this subject. All three of those companies (who happen to make up 90% of the exhaust market for the b8) absolutely BLEW IT when it came to making S4, RS4 and S5 exhausts. On the NA cars an exhaust mistake really shows up because that’s where you make your gains + a good tune. On FI cars the exhaust etc. gets a get out of jail free card because because nobody notices anything but the tune gains. This happened in B5 S4 world…and in the 2.0T world. The shitty exhausts got a free pass because people were busy dynoing the tunes.
LW parts - I still don’t see a lightweight flywheel or lightweight rotors for B8 S4 guys. what’s with that? This is free horsepower you guys can free up.
simple shit - we benefit (4.2 guys) greatly from simple shit like intake spacers and a lightweight crank pulley all put together to max out efficiency in the system. Why does nobody in B8 land talk about stuff like this?
My theory on why the B8 world seems to skip all this important building blocks stuff that you see addressed in the older models (more developed market) and you always see addressed in the domestic scene (huge, efficient market) is because forced induction + race gas = easy horsepower so everyone forgets everything else. People get excited about picking up 50 whp with a 100 octane tune that eliminates an OEM boost restriction…and end up giving thousands of dollars to all the other exahust and intake guys who get a free ride on boosts back. New Audi platforms tend to be populated by people with money…and the tuning companies know this. You know when you REALLY see a platform scrutinize and squeeze the best performance out of a car? When the cars are owned by people with less money…because a guy spending $1500 on exhaust for his $15,000 car is a big purchase. A guy putting a $1500 exhaust on his $60,000 car is not a big deal at all. I saw this with the B6/7 S4. When I bought my B7, the cars were $35,000-50,000 and people bought ANYTHING thrown at them. Now if an exhaust company posts in the forums they get crucified if they’re ‘doing it wrong’ because everyone knows from experience what works…and the young guys aren’t going to just throw their cash in the garbage. The RS4 is somewhere between the B8 and B6/7. Some people get it…most don’t.
I’d bet a Coke that a B8 S4 with a fully fleshed out group of bolt ons (i.e. optimal exhaust, fully developed tune etc) would be within a reasonable distance of stressing the 3.0T internals or the S-tronic system that is on about 75 % of the B8 S4s out there. It would make a ~$10,000 1650 swap a moot discussion point if that were true.
Saki, Some very good and valid points… I am not in a huge hurry to jump to a bigger blower but if the opportunity arises I probably would to be honest… I think it is a year+ away so it may be moot… Eaton has made the 1650 but only a few… I don’t think our blower is currently maxed out… I know I have said it for about a year now but eventually(before next season) I will have this ported and from my discussions with Stiegmeir they believe I would see about 10% increase in boost which would equate to 1-1.5psi… This is an efficiency gain so it is the best way to go as it won’t strain the blower like a pulley… Steig hasn’t done a TVS1320 yet but have done plenty of TVS1900 and TVS2300, so they are not just guessing… Also, the entire intake track on this car redesign could lead to some huge benefits IMO… My brother makes intake spacers for some of the various Mustang Cobra models out of phenolic and has been since the early 2000’s, he plans to look at making me one for my car when we take off the blower for porting… As I am sure you know they usually benefit NA cars much more… I will do it just for the cooling benefits of seperating the blower from the motor and the increased capacity not sure lengthing the runners by 1/4-3/8inch will do much… We have other ideas and plans to look at the intake side but there is limited pictures and information available at this point so my brother needs to see things off the car before he can determine if we can make things like a large mouth TB, larger diameter elbow, larger diameter bypass opening, etc. Right now the blower can’t get enough air into it so the plan is to try to increase that amount… Worst case would be to port all of the existing parts like TB, elbow, etc. Just my .02 and maybe I’ll be proven wrong but hey at least I’ll try… LOL
I’d be interested to see some vac measurements at WOT during the intake system development. Maybe one probe in the air box, one after the filter, one before the throttle body and one after the throttle body. Or more generally one after the TB for a total view of the inlet efficiency.
If you are going through with designing a bunch of new parts for the inlet system I’d use vacuum, maf (if the ecu outputs an estimated value), iat and rpm/sec logs all overlayed on ghe same run before and after the inlet system is installed. I’d probably buy those figures over dyno sheets, especially the vacuum.
sak, i was just bringing this topic up because i know you, brian and a few others are up on your shiz on blowers from the b6/7’s. that and with FI cars its the usual progression so at some point in time be it soon or 3 years out, it’ll happen.
don’t give me that light weight bullshit, we all know the one company that can do it, won’t do it… IM CALLING YOU OUT DAN!! lol. my last convo with dan i told him id be sending him my brakes at some point both for the stock setup and for the rs5 brakes I’m running. the rs5 rotors may happen really soon as i have an annoying ass shimmy when I’m on the brakes, i think they may be warped.
im also really hoping that the s5 flywheel setup will truly work on the s4 as well.
what i would REALLY REALY REALLY like to see is some sort of drivetrain mount, especially one for the diff, like the apikol application for the b6/7. the car has a fair amount of DT slack which worries me after APR said they blew the sport diff right off the mounts in some of there testing.
now the exhaust… its a touchy subject. this motor sounds like complete shit for a DD when its all opened up. we all know danny at FI knows what he’s doing and he gave up on this exhaust cus no1 was pleased with the amount of interior drone and to add resonators would conflict with his design. i think the manufacturers gave up on that front and made what was most pleasing to the ears. the FI setup with the headers made me feel like i was listening to the brown note and shitting my pants could happen at any given moment. and tho its subjective and still up for debate, the butt dyno feels like the miltek runs stronger than the FI setup. and i still feel that the 2.36" diameter of the miltek helps retain some crucial back pressure with this car, maybe its in my head?
yeah, it’s easy for a V8 to sound decent so it’s easy for us to forget that. Good point.
With the 3.0 you’ve also got to be careful as the smaller 6 engines have drone at a different RPM which can be unbearable (highway cruiseRPMS from 2-3k) whereas the 4.2 V8 engines drone 1100-1900 which is never really used. The E46 M3 guys had this problem…lots of aftermarket exhausts were chucked as a result. I wonder if the 335 guys have the same problems, and what they’ve done to make it bearable. Resonators don’t really do much for drone I’d think. Rather they might just exacerbate the problem.
As for JHM stepping up, their clutch and flywheel for the S5 should be awesome. I do remember being there when they took apart an S5 at a meet and the JHM guys were all looking at the S5 C/FW setup like it had come out of a spaceship. It was definitely weird, explaining why there are no options for the car really.
i mean… who the hell would think its a good idea to put a half shaft between a clutch and flywheel… i mean seriously, why does audi have to give me this damn run around lol
hey, is the S4 exactly the same? You’ve had your motor out I think…send some pics over to Dan.
actually you know what? Tell eurocode to send their shit over to JHM too…didn’t they replace it with something? Maybe it was just clutch not flywheel. still can’t hurt for JHM to get their hands on one.
you get that awesome minor improvement in front:rear weight balance!
i just sent david a text asking for some pictures, when we pulled my motor, the trans came with it and was never separated. anyone have access to etka? maybe we can look up both part numbers and go about it that way? id die for another jhm clutch setup. possibly my favorite mod i did to the rs4
I still have the 4.2. I keep it when Im in keywest I use it for my DD. The 5.2 All I can say is this 11sec talk is weak. My car stock will do that. 
I laugh because the only documented RS4 Supercharger sucuess comes from the same blower thats on the S4. So by extension 3.0 of 4.2 that blower can only push so much air. When you stack it up the blower is going to tell the time more then the motor. The RS4 guys need a hero. The B6 guys have several. The S5 guys are getting laughed at with there PES fail.
Its great another B8 S4 went into the 11’s. Still I could care less unless there a member here. So go get that top spot time back Primetime.