LOL! Well the car is inoperable currently and the track isn’t open until Sat. I don’t want to jinx myself but I think we will be the fastest after Sat. B5’s aside ;D
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hmmm… ;D ron dont forget if you ever need beta testing of any kind im always game haha
hmmm… ;D ron dont forget if you ever need beta testing of any kind im always game haha
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Rich, welcome to the forum… We need to get the B8 section moving… Seems like more hard core modders and car guys over here… I’ll keep you posted… May actually take you up on the testing offer since I don’t drive the car in the winter… I have to give my brother the credit as there mostly his ideas and he will be the one to fab them up at the shop so will see… He is really into it especially since they are more performance oriented and he loves what I am doing with the car…
I see David posted one of the times for their B8… Man a 120+ trap is impressive… Kind of weird though since he mentioned 110-114-120 traps… that big of a delta shows me that they changed tunes…
from what i was told, they got that trap after clearing out some fault codes, they had the same thing happen on the dyno, a bunch of decent numbers, cleared codes and then again a huge delta. so who knows whats going on with that car, i know they were talking to keith about it and he mentioned something about it sporadically hitting a torque limiter as well as some timing issues that were found after david sent him some logs. ive felt this on 3 occasions in the 10k+ miles ive had the headers. it feels like hitting a wall from 5k up, almost feels like its cutting fuel? but once i cleared the codes it was fine.
Rich, welcome to the forum… We need to get the B8 section moving… Seems like more hard core modders and car guys over here… I’ll keep you posted… May actually take you up on the testing offer since I don’t drive the car in the winter… I have to give my brother the credit as there mostly his ideas and he will be the one to fab them up at the shop so will see… He is really into it especially since they are more performance oriented and he loves what I am doing with the car…
I see David posted one of the times for their B8… Man a 120+ trap is impressive… Kind of weird though since he mentioned 110-114-120 traps… that big of a delta shows me that they changed tunes…
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In my S4 I went to the strip about 8 times, getting about 8-10 runs each time, with one time where I only got 1 run in. Every time I was there my MPH never varied by more than 3 mph. Usually the variance was 1 mph for 80% of the runs.
In my RS4 I made 6 passes two weeks ago, and other than the missed shift on one run where I coasted, my MPH ranged from 105.9 to 107.0 over the 5 passes. The other RS4 varied a total of 2 MPH. The B8 varied a total of 2-3 MPH.
To have a 10 mph variance, I think you’d have to slam the brakes at some point on the track. Or the clocks were wrong on either the 110 or 120 run. Since they were in southern california, I’d bet that a good time with all their mods would be 12.3-12.5 at 115. How they came up with 12.5 @ 120 and 13.X at 110 is a mystery
the few times i hit the proverbial wall it almost felt like brakes being applied, i hit 5k in 4th and my head lurched forward. who knows, once the APR monopoly ends i feel like we will all learn the things that apr doesnt want to tell us about these motors
what’s the proverbial wall? I’m missing something…
as for APR I think they’re as confused as you guys so don’t feel too bad. The ECU is a mystery. If they change too much (i.e. to make a great tune) the ECU will reflash to stock. Or brick. It’s a really crazy amount of security.
That’s why you heard APR saying things like ‘throttle is perfect, we didn’t need to change it’. The translation I got, having driven a dozen Audis…NONE of which got the throttle right lol…was “The throttle is too tough to adjust, and since we’re limited to making a small number of changes, we’re going to stick with boost and the torque limit on the DSG cars”
Other tuners have busted into the ECU…but they can’t make the changes stick.
it feels like the RPM’s hit a wall at like 5-5500 rpm, you can both feel it and hear it. the rpms still climb, but they do so at an extreme snails pace. it happened on my rs4 a few times too but it was cus of misfiring, this shows not codes for misfire so idk
is it closing the throttle plate at all? Depending on what tune I’m running mine backs the throttle down,this only happened after installing headers
its hard to really tell brian, it happens so sporadically that logging it could be difficult, maybe its hitting the specified torque limit on the ecu?
oh alright, does it happen in certain weather? any correleation with going uphill?
nope, weather was in the 60’s if i remember correctly, its been a while, and i was going down one of the flattest highway roads in the area. i use the road often for 4th gear pulls, if there are no cars theres enough room for me to completely wind out 4th gear
oh alright, its interesting… the 4th gear would be high load and the cool air would be dense so maybe its just reaching its load goal (which would be set by the tune) without needing the TB fully open at higher rpm
Prime go get the top spot. Make sure to get video and I will put you on the front page. I figgure that might stir up some of these 4.2 guys to crack the whip
so prime… what ever happened with TVS and the 1650, i thought i remember reading that some company (apr maybe?) went ahead and placed a large enough OE order.
also, did you ever look into the kenne bell blowers? i remember hearing the the blower itself is a close fit to ours?
^^^what…you sell that 4.2 car finally? Getting all tough with your 5.2 self? Now you’re better than 4.2 guys huh?
hahahahahahahahahahahaha
Rich, From what I heard from intenal Eaton sources is that Mercedes was/is looking at/testing it for their next V6FI motor… Not sure what car it would go in but probably the smaller cars like the SLK AMG and such… This was several months ago so I will have to ask my wife to follow up and see if she can find out more… Not sure if Eaton sells directly to APR as they really try to sell to the big OEM’s only, however they do sell to Rousch and a few others so it is possible, I just don’t know… If they did I highly doubt APR could order the needed volume to justify them producing the blower so it will take an OEM to get the ball rolling…
No clue on the KB… The TVS1650 is probably our best bet…
1650? First, shouldn’t you guys figure out
a) what the internals can handle
b) what the transmission(s) can handle - apparently Audi cheaped out on the manual’s clutch and flywheel…so who knows what else?
c) what the ‘max out’ performance capabilities of the 1320 on the car are by eliminating all of the restrictions and going FULL bolt on? Remember the first 4.2 S4/RS4/S5 guys that went out and bought a supercharger…only to find out they could have had 95% to 105% of the same performance gains by going full bolt ons? Why do you guys seem to be pushing to the front of the line to be the first B8 guys to ‘buy a supercharger’ (1650) without knowing what the car can do with full bolt ons? Don’t be that guy. It’s not fun. Ask Kryptonik, todeshandler, b6guy42, jbimolaS4, weeder, spinner, V8S4fun.
Besides the TVS r1650 doesn’t even exist. People talk about it like it’s sitting on a shelf somewhere waiting to be sold, but it’s not. It’s a diagram in someone’s computer at Eaton. The 1650 appears to be a slightly stretched out/bored out 1320. I could be totally wrong on all of this, but this is what it looks like to me. There’s not even a performance map for the 1650 that I can find. That tells me it doesn’t exist thus hasn’t been tested. Again, just a guess. Correct me if I’m mistaken.
Further, what if a 1650 makes enough power to start causing you guys to need an engine build to really take advantage of it? I think that’d be a waste at that point. Why not focus on maxing out the 1320 and making what you have MOST efficient rather than throwing a bunch more air/money at a system with some embedded restrictions that may stil bel hurting performance.
tune - the APR tune is (as APR have admitted) extremely basic. There are a number of reasons for this, including APR’s tuning acumen as well as the security on the ECU making it tough for them to make too many adjustments. There is a bunch left in your tune that you guys haven’t explored yet.
exhaust - from the manifold to the mufflers. Basically a bunch of products hit the market ranging from 2.25 to 2.5" with all kinds of weird bends and components and neck downs…I still haven’t seen a meaningful discussion of B8 S4 exhaust setups. As you know I’ve surfed all of the forums…maybe I’m missing it? APR talked all day about eliminating drone. AWE talked all day about how drone isn’t a big deal and how the system sounds badass. Milltek/Strat talked all day about ‘V8 sound’. Nobody talks about the specifics of making power on a 3.0 V6 with a blower that can fire 800 CFM at the motor. Maybe someone nailed the performance design. Maybe none of them did and they need 2.75" and an X. Maybe they need 2.0". Bottom line is I haven’t seen anyone approach this subject. All three of those companies (who happen to make up 90% of the exhaust market for the b8) absolutely BLEW IT when it came to making S4, RS4 and S5 exhausts. On the NA cars an exhaust mistake really shows up because that’s where you make your gains + a good tune. On FI cars the exhaust etc. gets a get out of jail free card because because nobody notices anything but the tune gains. This happened in B5 S4 world…and in the 2.0T world. The shitty exhausts got a free pass because people were busy dynoing the tunes.
LW parts - I still don’t see a lightweight flywheel or lightweight rotors for B8 S4 guys. what’s with that? This is free horsepower you guys can free up.
simple shit - we benefit (4.2 guys) greatly from simple shit like intake spacers and a lightweight crank pulley all put together to max out efficiency in the system. Why does nobody in B8 land talk about stuff like this?
My theory on why the B8 world seems to skip all this important building blocks stuff that you see addressed in the older models (more developed market) and you always see addressed in the domestic scene (huge, efficient market) is because forced induction + race gas = easy horsepower so everyone forgets everything else. People get excited about picking up 50 whp with a 100 octane tune that eliminates an OEM boost restriction…and end up giving thousands of dollars to all the other exahust and intake guys who get a free ride on boosts back. New Audi platforms tend to be populated by people with money…and the tuning companies know this. You know when you REALLY see a platform scrutinize and squeeze the best performance out of a car? When the cars are owned by people with less money…because a guy spending $1500 on exhaust for his $15,000 car is a big purchase. A guy putting a $1500 exhaust on his $60,000 car is not a big deal at all. I saw this with the B6/7 S4. When I bought my B7, the cars were $35,000-50,000 and people bought ANYTHING thrown at them. Now if an exhaust company posts in the forums they get crucified if they’re ‘doing it wrong’ because everyone knows from experience what works…and the young guys aren’t going to just throw their cash in the garbage. The RS4 is somewhere between the B8 and B6/7. Some people get it…most don’t.
I’d bet a Coke that a B8 S4 with a fully fleshed out group of bolt ons (i.e. optimal exhaust, fully developed tune etc) would be within a reasonable distance of stressing the 3.0T internals or the S-tronic system that is on about 75 % of the B8 S4s out there. It would make a ~$10,000 1650 swap a moot discussion point if that were true.
Saki, Some very good and valid points… I am not in a huge hurry to jump to a bigger blower but if the opportunity arises I probably would to be honest… I think it is a year+ away so it may be moot… Eaton has made the 1650 but only a few… I don’t think our blower is currently maxed out… I know I have said it for about a year now but eventually(before next season) I will have this ported and from my discussions with Stiegmeir they believe I would see about 10% increase in boost which would equate to 1-1.5psi… This is an efficiency gain so it is the best way to go as it won’t strain the blower like a pulley… Steig hasn’t done a TVS1320 yet but have done plenty of TVS1900 and TVS2300, so they are not just guessing… Also, the entire intake track on this car redesign could lead to some huge benefits IMO… My brother makes intake spacers for some of the various Mustang Cobra models out of phenolic and has been since the early 2000’s, he plans to look at making me one for my car when we take off the blower for porting… As I am sure you know they usually benefit NA cars much more… I will do it just for the cooling benefits of seperating the blower from the motor and the increased capacity not sure lengthing the runners by 1/4-3/8inch will do much… We have other ideas and plans to look at the intake side but there is limited pictures and information available at this point so my brother needs to see things off the car before he can determine if we can make things like a large mouth TB, larger diameter elbow, larger diameter bypass opening, etc. Right now the blower can’t get enough air into it so the plan is to try to increase that amount… Worst case would be to port all of the existing parts like TB, elbow, etc. Just my .02 and maybe I’ll be proven wrong but hey at least I’ll try… LOL
I’d be interested to see some vac measurements at WOT during the intake system development. Maybe one probe in the air box, one after the filter, one before the throttle body and one after the throttle body. Or more generally one after the TB for a total view of the inlet efficiency.
If you are going through with designing a bunch of new parts for the inlet system I’d use vacuum, maf (if the ecu outputs an estimated value), iat and rpm/sec logs all overlayed on ghe same run before and after the inlet system is installed. I’d probably buy those figures over dyno sheets, especially the vacuum.