the ASP gt28 kit is pretty proven, one of the longest standing offerings in the b5 s4/ 2.7t game.
you would be doing yourself a disservice to not explore that option if you are thinking as big as 770s.
in the end the cost is similar.
Thanks. I’ll look into this tomorrow:
http://www.wickedparts.com/products/AutoSpeed-Performance-B5-S4-ASP-Garrett-GT28RS-Turbo-Upgrade-Package.html
yup, that the one and wicked is a great shop to buy from, where are you located? that has a lot to do with it. the 770s would be comparable in almost every way yet a totally different approach.
either option is legit, go with what is available from the most reputable tuner closest to you. in the end they are the ones who make or break the build.
I agree hands down with snow trooper. The GT kit has been proven and arond for a long time. ONly difference is that VAG motorsporst made them 1full year before Auto rip off did.
Wicked is a stellar shop. DON"T GET ANYTHING AUTOSPEED. that shop fucking blows dick and is got the lowest rep in the biz. They got laughed out of the game a long time ago.
This is the original kit that ASP ripped off. It fits better and is better made. But the kit from the guy that made the kit not from the company that attempted to rip it off. Not only that but Agtronic will sell you a better kit for like 4k less if not more.
http://www.agtronicmotorsport.com/gallery/new_gen_s4/New%20Gen%20S4%20087.jpg
markew was the guy who made the kit. I actually was interested in it. back in… 04? 05? Markew the guy who made the kit sent a unit out to ASP (Another Stolen Product) for them to make and tune. ended up Another stolen product copyed the design and then sold it as tehre own.
The kit started as VAG motorsports.
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3335/3218778721_ae844f9884_o.jpg
check out the site.
http://www.agtronicmotorsport.com/gallery.php?action=view&gallery=18257fb6631352a1
or if you really want to look at a strong offering. See if you can contact Vast before there ship sinks and get one of there log style kits.
Ive been in a Tial 770car on C16 and Ive been in a JHM tuned Vast log style kit car and the difference is mind blowing in favor of the GT turbo kit. REmember the Tial turbos were an attempt to build gt turbos. Snowtrooper will tell you there is HUGE power in just a better exhaust manifold or header design. Teh GT kits give you that.
I would look into it and seriously take that route into consideration. Also I agree depends on where you located. If your in cally look up JHM. I would bet 20,000k that they would take you for a ride in there car and elt you see first hand what the RS6-R game is like
Thanks, Chris. Where are the GT28RS dyno reports? I can’t find anything anywhere about horsepower or torque.
didn’t you post on az that you already had all the hardware…and that you dropped your car off at the tuner a few days ago for the build?
not like you’re going to change now…is it?
http://www.audizine.com/forum/showthread.php/478633-Building-a-methanol-injected-Tial-770R-S4
[quote]Building a methanol injected Tial 770R S4
guys. I have a 2000 S4 with a little over 100k on the odometer. I have all the parts needed for the build. I have somebody taking care of the install and they’re also rebuilding and blueprinting the engine as the car had already been modified in the past. The bottom half is being taken care of now but I’m not sure what I’m having done up top. Any opinions on that would be appreciated. The 770Rs are said to be capable of 770 horsepower and that sounds great. I figure it’s nice having a car that’s quick and nimble for stoplight bursts on the street but why run out of steam just when things are getting good? I don’t see a lot of 770R builds so I’ll keep everybody updated as more progress is made with my car…
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[quote]Week one turned out to be a bust. Felipe at Velocity Factor said they didn’t start work on my car yet. Why? They’ve been preparing for a big race this weekend. I’m going to give them a pass. They seem quite busy over there. I was actually supposed to drop the car off last Friday but they forgot to tell me the week before they weren’t going to be in as it was a holiday (Good Friday). THAT does seem like something easy enough to forget. So… Yes, I’m a little disappointed to hear nothing has been done yet while my car has been sitting there since Saturday. I’m told they’ll have two techs on the car starting Monday. The first mission is to rebuild the engine. I guess I’ll have an update next week…
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Velocity Factor in Boca Raton was supposed to start work on the car last Monday. For whatever reason they did not. Now they’re starting tomorrow. The motor isn’t even out of the car yet. If I’m convinced the the 770Rs are not the way to go, I’ll save them as backup turbos in the event I break whatever I get.
[quote]Week one turned out to be a bust. Felipe at Velocity Factor said they didn’t start work on my car yet. Why? They’ve been preparing for a big race this weekend. I’m going to give them a pass. They seem quite busy over there. I was actually supposed to drop the car off last Friday but they forgot to tell me the week before they weren’t going to be in as it was a holiday (Good Friday). THAT does seem like something easy enough to forget. So… Yes, I’m a little disappointed to hear nothing has been done yet while my car has been sitting there since Saturday. I’m told they’ll have two techs on the car starting Monday. The first mission is to rebuild the engine. I guess I’ll have an update next week…
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Crappy drivers should not have 500+ hp cars, that is my input to this thread. If extra power is key to combat your shitty driving, I’d imagine death is in your near future.
and if you are roll racing to 130mph+ power is only one concern, you better be sure to have the suspension to keep that power on the road, and the braking to slow the car back down.
I exaggerated the crappiness. I’m just not going to break any records.
The car already has better brakes and suspension upgrades. If it needs more, I’ll give it the attention it needs. I didn’t buy an old Audi to build because it was all I could afford. I’ll be updating my build process in a few different places. Here, AZ and http://audib5s4.com
Does anyone else have input on these GT28RS turbos? What kind of horsepower/torque are they claimed to produce? I’m still on the fence about what to do here.
edit: I wish I could combine the last three posts… Anyway. I found some more information here:
http://www.ardesign.org/product.sc?categoryId=2&productId=1
I intended on using EP Labs 770Rs w/tuning and fuel system for $8k and it looks like this GT setup would cost me about the same minus the tuning and fuel system but adding manifold and downpipes…
I don’t know what makes the GTs better than the Tials but apparently the GTs came first and Tial tried to make the same thing. That’s what I’m gathering by reading here… It would be so easy to just stick with what I’ve got but it seems like some of you are really adamant about staying away from the Tials since they’re unproven. There’s not a whole lot of positive results from either of these setups but I guess most people don’t go this route…
ARD is a great way to go. So is Augtronic.
Your spot on with the Tials. The tial turbos were built to be a drop in compromise between the KKK turbos and the GT turbos The tials are like the ATP eliminator turbos. If your really looking to build your car get the GTs. Not the compromise to the GTs
Ive had several GT and KKK turbo cars. Ive seen several Tial cars. And the tial cars are just that a compromise between the two. Now with the RS6-R turbos the tials might fade out soon.
The Gt turbos have strong 1/4 mile times and dyno sheets along with a long long list of success
I keep going back and forth on what I should use. If the RS6-R turbos were available now I’d probably just go with them. So far they seem very promising. I should probably just bite the bullet and get the GTs.
The Tials I got came from EP Labs w/fuel system. Since the GTs don’t come with it, would you like to recommend something?
[quote=“CountVohn,post:132,topic:3334”]
I keep forgetting about the rs6r’s and how potent they are.
Maybe some teaser specs would help me remember ;D
I’ll be honest… too many people are drooling over the JHM RS6-R’s… only one car so far as them and that is JHM’s… and they are running race gas and more boost then say the OP w/ 770’s on E85…
So similar potential where they are, but I think the 770’s have the RS6-R’s beat in overall performance and making the most power.
605 vs. RS6-R no one really knows yet… no logs of cars with equal hardware and fuel to say for certain.
frankly nobody knows anything about RS6Rs…OR the 770s
I mean what do we have for the big Tials?
massive 600-700 whp dyno numbers (from EPL and AMD’s dyno)
a 500 whp dyno number on 034’s dyno
11.1 @ 129 on E85 (jfonz’ client)
12.4 @ 128 on 92+meth (burningcoals/killer2000s4…who ran what…5 seconds from 60-130? So 0-60 is about 7 seconds in that car? again…terrible data for us to conclude anything)
What do we have from the RS6R car?
10.8 @ 130
and nothing else. So far I wouldn’t say the 770s win anything just yet. I don’t think the RS6R is going to be a fair comparison for the 605 to be honest but there again, we have such trivial pools of data other than a big ol dyno thread (hosted by EPL/AMD) and a quarter mile thread that had 6 times in it and got locked.
To point out the JHM run was on race gas isn’t really such a big deal. Show me an impressive pump gas time on a B5 (by impressive, I don’t mean real world impressive, but like crazy low 11s/high 120s+ trap impressive in this rare air that these particular cars we’re discussing live). There are none on pump. So race vs. pump+meth vs. E85…none of it is pump, so none of it really deserves a ‘but it was on XXX’.
Anyway, looking forward to more info from all of these guys.
burningcoals is on pump + meth AFAIK, jfonz car on E85. I wish we had a larger sample pool to choose from but we don’t just yet.
[quote]What do we have from the RS6R car?
10.8 @ 130
and nothing else. So far I wouldn’t say the 770s win anything just yet. I don’t think the RS6R is going to be a fair comparison for the 605 to be honest but there again, we have such trivial pools of data other than a big ol dyno thread (hosted by EPL/AMD) and a quarter mile thread that had 6 times in it and got locked.
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You’re right there isn’t much data on them just yet… but 30 PSI through the EBay FMIC and still running 130 mph is showing the 770’s are working very well IMO.
The RS6-R’s were run at over 30psi from what I can remember for an essentially identical trap speed.
[quote]To point out the JHM run was on race gas isn’t really such a big deal.
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IMO it is and I will tell you why. Race gas and & E85 make a HUGE difference in power compared to pump or pump + meth. So the 770 car running E85 and the RS6-R car running race fuel I would say is on a fairly even playing field. Yet the 770 car was able to match the trap speed with less boost and a shittier IC setup (which is pretty important @ that boost level).
[quote]Show me an impressive pump gas time on a B5 (by impressive, I don’t mean real world impressive, but like crazy low 11s/high 120s+ trap impressive in this rare air that these particular cars we’re discussing live). There are none on pump. So race vs. pump+meth vs. E85…none of it is pump, so none of it really deserves a
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Not sure how much you know about turbo charging… but we will never see a 2.7T with twins running good times on pump gas. Single turbo’s are a different story and have a much better potential to run faster and make more power on straight pump. Larger more efficient turbos = more power at lower boost levels (ie. a 2.7T w/ a GT40R will make 600+ awhp on straight pump without breaking a sweat. The exception to the rule he seems to be Guruman’s well sorted and flowing setup… with the right parts anything is possible I suppose.
On smaller twins that be very hard to make happen as the boost needs to be far higher to achieve the same power level.
With that there will be trade offs of course. But that is the big picture that I’m trying to paint here.
Dude did you just say race fuel and E85 would be close to the same thing? Im nost sure what you know about fuels but there no even on the same planet.
One is alchol and one is actual petral. E85 has allowed the 770s to not be so laggy due to the fact that you need to run so much more fuel that this helps spool the turbos and helps take out some of the lag
Actually the 770 car was running more boost and almost the same IC so its a level playing field alright but only with the E85. The last 770cars have been a complete failure. How ever the RS6 turbos have shown to all perform well. So when you have a R sieries turbo there seems like its going to be a wait and see on them as well
ChrisK, I just have to comment that your comments on ASP and even Markku are totally incorrect. I was involved and know the timeleines.
ARD and VAST ripped off Markkus designs, which were actually VAG motorsports designs. ASP predates all of those and I honestly think your comments were completely out of line with it is obvious by reading the post that you have no idea about what is fatc and isnt on this subject.
You are the first and only person to even spew that nonesense.
I’m sorry but you will have to show me where E85 has a significant advantage over race fuel in regards to spool, considering it burns A LOT cooler, which means cylinder temps are lower which in turn means EGT’s are lower, exhaust gasses are not expanding as quickly = slightly lower spool if anything.
But I will wait to have you show me otherwise.
[quote]Actually the 770 car was running more boost and almost the same IC so its a level playing field alright but only with the E85. The last 770cars have been a complete failure. How ever the RS6 turbos have shown to all perform well. So when you have a R sieries turbo there seems like its going to be a wait and see on them as well
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Actually the 770 car was not running more boost… go read the OP 30 psi w/ the EBAY FMIC. And if you read the JHM thread they say they’re “around 30 psi” I’m going to say they were running more then 30 and not less.
Either way most of your post has been completely false.