traded one project car for another...

General Discussion
#1

So, I sold the RS6 last week. In the meantime, I had been checking out a few other cars. I have always wanted a Viper, and found a few that interested me. In the end though, I decided to go with something that I can use year round. A 03 Porsche C4S.

http://ep1.pinkbike.org/p4pb10159559/p4pb10159559.jpg

I have never had a Porsche before, and I have a feeling I am in for a world of financial pain. Car has a blown engine, so first order of business is to get that replaced. Apparently, I am looking at anywhere from $10k to $ $30k, depending on what option I go with. On the low end, I could replace with a used 3.6L engine. However, they are prone to failure, apparently, and I dont really want to take that chance. Ill probably go with a rebuild from a reputable shop. Ill have to see how things play out, and save some more money in the meantime.

#2

You can throw a LS in there. . .seriously, it can be done.

Yea the 996 NA motors had serious IMS issues. Well they had a lot of issues actually. The Turbo/GT2/GT3 motors were all rock solid for the most part, but the NA ones were shit. Best of luck. I see it hard replacing the motor and breaking even unless you just got the car for pennies as a C4s with a good motor and low mileage rarely fetch $30k.

#3

I am a complete ignoramus when it comes to Porsches - any VAG engines fit in there?

#4

LS conversion is one of the options I am looking at. Renegade Hybrids wants $28k for the full LS3 conversion installed. Too much for me, so I am looking into other sources.

C4s (not C4) prices in Canada seem to run about $32k and up. I can put in a brand new rebuilt and be at about $30k total when all is said and done, with a one year unlimited km warranty on the engine.

The other option is a high performance rebuild by shipping my car to the States. Supposed to be awesome, but lots of $$$$

#5

No VAG options that will work well, from what I have heard. You can replace with the same, go full Turbo drivetrain and ECU, or LS3.

#6

Get a high performance Porsche crate engine from Japan. ~600 hp

I see if I can some more info from my friend who was telling me about their Porsche kit track cars

#7

Hey, Im all ears !!! Let me know what he says

#8

Overnight parts from japan! Lol

A Porsche mechanic was telling me that the bearings are prone to failure on those engines, something to do with the lubrication system of the block design.

The mezger? Engines with the 964
blocks (dry sump) have no oil starvation issues.

#9

Yeah, there is a flaw with the IMS bearing. If you have an earlier engine, you need to upgrade it with an aftermarket fix or your engine will eventually blow. Then, there are some other issues with the engine (rear main seal). I think there are updated parts for those too.

From what I have read, here are the options…

  • if you buy a used engine for $5k-6k, it is a crapshoot. If it hasnt been updated, it will eventually blow up, from what I’ve heard
  • you can buy a cheap rebuilt for $6k plus labor, but they will probably fail within a couple years too
  • you can buy a better rebuilt for $12k plus labor, with a one year warranty it will hopefully last a lifetime of daily driving
  • you can send the car to flat6innovations, and get the best. They have all kinds of different options. The only thing is the basic reconstruction (they refuse to call it a rebuild) is about $20k. A engine that can take track abuse is a bit more. 3.6 to 3.8 conversion is more… etc

Apparently the rebuild, done right, takes a lot of time and special tools. There are also expensive parts.

In the end, Ill likely end up paying market value for the car. But it will have an engine that should last a long time and drive like new.

BTW, these problems effect all the 996 NA cars. The turbo engines were different, and werent effected.

#10

karma bump for you lol

http://i55.tinypic.com/2m07dd.jpg

But seriously, that crate engine from Japan - any links/forums posts from previous installs? Sounds exciting

#11

If you can buy a used good engine, LN engineering sells a kit that fixes the IMS issue apparently. It’s pretty cheap ($500 or something) and easy to install with a clutch job, or motor swap lol. But yea the NA motor doesn’t have the best longevity history. And since so many of the 996 have the issues, the motors are insanely priced bc people are trying to do just what you are doing, swap a used motor in to get the car back on the road and sell it rather than loose their $30k car.

What’s the history on why your car’s engine is shot? Is it the IMS issue? There is a class action lawsuit against Porsche, and apparently they’ve paid out for previous repair jobs from IMS damage. Just curious.

But yea the mezger engine in the turbo/gt2 is a derivative of the GT1 lemans motor, dry sump etc and virtually bulletproof. Guys are running 650-700whp on full stock motors pretty commonly. Supposedly when new to production, the motor alone cost porsche ~$40k+ and enthusiasts were mad bc the 997 used a cheaper/weaker motor in the turbo than the 996.

Frankly, I don’t know about the ecu and wiring, but you can sometimes find a turbo motor to swap in for $10-12k. Could be an option since the drivetrain and body are all the same.

#12

Time to sell as mint and get a GT3

#13

Where are you in Canada? A friend of a friend runs a Porsche shop in b.c., give him a call and see what he says. I trust his opinion.

Talk to Cheyne (Shane) the owner, tell him a “Porsche train” member referred you.

http://www.blitzkriegautowerks.com/

#14

There is a uk company called 9E or 9excellence you should check out some of the shit they do! Absolutely insane cars

#15

Thanks guys. Ill check them out.

#16

http://www.chevrolet.com/performance/crate-engines.html

#17

I think I have abandoned the Chevy swap idea. It would likely kill the resale on the car.

There is one guy who did an LS1 swap into a 996, and is trying to sell his car for $25k. He got insane publicity when it starting showing up from every to Bring a Trailer, to Jalopik, to the National news, nevermind all the internet forums.

http://996ls1.blogspot.ca/

And yet, despite all the publicity, it still remains unsold at $25k. So, there is no use me spending $28k to do the swap.

A local 996 C4S with blown engine just went for close to his asking at $19500. So, I got a pretty good deal on my car. I think the best move is to go with a local guy who will do a totally rebuilt 3.8 conversion for about $18k, or Jake Raby engine for about $25k. Expensive, but the car will be an absolute blast in the end, and the engine should be bulletproof at that point.

#18

Bummer but I think you’re on the right path. The LS is cool if you never want to sell it, but trying to sell it would be a nightmare.

Porsche guys are so picky and such purists. The GT3 is the pinnacle to them, but putting basics GT3 parts (shifter, end links, etc) on another car depreciates the other cars value because it’s a “modded” Porsche lol.

#19

Yeah, it is an interesting community, I am finding. There are definitely a lot of people willing to help when you ask questions.

The good thing (if you want to call it that) about the 996 and newer cars is that the purists dont really like them, or at least are not drawn to them. They stick to the air cooled cars. So, the mods seem to be better accepted on the 996/997 and newer, when selling. The C4S with a blown engine that sold went quick (one week) and had quite a few mods

http://forums.rennlist.com/rennforums/vehicle-marketplace/782302-2002-c4s-for-sale-engine-failure.html

#20

Another interesting thing about the community is that a large number of them take their cars to the track. Not so much the 1/4 mile, but lots a DE events. With the the stock engine in the C4S already being weak, it is a surefire way to blow it up. All of the rebuilt options that I am looking at a heavily modified with many upgrades to make them track ready.