USA Criminal health care.

General Discussion
#61

I’m so confused by this discussion…because it is just people arguing…but that is exactly what happens when people discuss political decisions and law.

Axel, what people fail to see is that people in America have healthcare options. People with shitty jobs can get healthcare…or NO JOB. This bill truly does nothing except screw small business and people who had great healthcare plans. Taxpayers have been footing the bill since the establishment of our welfare system.

Politicians will NEVER work together when they rely on their awesome paycheck, kickbacks, and have special interest groups. If they could be terminated “by the people” on any given day that we deem fit…they would act a hell of a lot different while conducting business on our behalf. Plain and simple this healthcare bullshit is a very small problem in our country…most of our systems are beyond corrupt and beyond fixing, ESPECIALLY our monetary system. The federal reserve and banks are fucking crooks and the people in charge are going to drive us straight off a cliff.

Just one example of this healthcare BS, my wife and I have always had pretty good jobs. We both for Boeing, one of, if not the largest aviation company in the world. Because of the Healthcare law and it’s fines on companies WITH B E N E F I T S THAT WERE TOO GOOD!

http://online.wsj.com/news/articles/SB10001424052702304410504575561181574469478

[quote]Responding to what it says are rapidly rising costs, including some as a result of the new health-care bill, Boeing Co. plans to increase the price of employee health insurance for its non-union workforce over the next few years.
[/quote]

[quote]“The newly enacted health care reform legislation, while intended to expand access to care for millions of uninsured Americans, is also adding cost pressure as requirements of the new law are phased in over the next several years,” he wrote.
[/quote]
That being said…our out of pocket expenses went from at the most $600 a year for our family, to 6 fucking thousand ($6000)

I am a firm believer in taking care of our own, but explain to me how that is fair for a family who is basically middle class. Hell I would opt to pay and extra $2-3k in taxes over my healthcare costs rising. Oh, and we had our first child this year…the year with the new “prices” so although he is the best thing that ever happened to us, we will be feeling the wrath of our insurance cost rising.

But this is the same country where you can be on welfare your whole life…get a $10k tax return back even though you never paid in a cent…collect social security even though you only worked for 10 years out of the 65 years you’ve lived…?? I could go on but you get my point…

but when some people realize you can do nothing and become completely reliant on the government instead of bust your ass at a job to make ends meat, would you give up beits and go find a shit job making $10/hr

…they also raise their kids to do the same…and it become s vicious cycle

#62

…and we will have our guns…lol

http://www.sherv.net/cm/emoticons/guns/big-machine-gun.gif

This isn’t band in Cali yet…

http://www.sherv.net/cm/emoticons/shit/shit-gun-smiley-emoticon.gif

#63

One wsy to put it is…

The givenment spent 450million on a website that doesnt work they had 2years to build it with all that money…sure they cant build a web site but…they are going to fix health care…right…so far they have kore people k8cked off health car then joined and the cost of health care went up almost 100% for most peo0le that pay…this is a disaster that didn’t help anyone… now the same corupt politicians that rob us everyday can now force us to vote for them or cut our benefits. Its one more wsy to control us and our votes…now we sre just as helpless as the seioners that are on medacide but now we pay 100% more and have no say…

#64

Although not related to healthcare directly, this article points to some of the exploits I referenced above. We are so poorly managed in so many areass, it is beyond embarrassing at this point.

http://news.yahoo.com/special-report-pentagons-doctored-ledgers-conceal-epic-waste-144950858--business.html

#65

Euroswagr, you wrote this obamacare screws small businesses. I’ll ask for you to elaborate.
I ask because I own a small business, less than 49 FTE employees and therefore I’m not obligated to folllow this mandate. However, I have offered to pay 50% of the medical expense for my full time employees. I have since day one. It’s not only fair, in my opinion, but to not extend it would be unfair and selfish.

I welcome the mandated healthcare, because my giant corporate competitors have their feet held to the fire, and though they continue to minimize hours and try to circumvent the law by limiting hours to 25 hours per week, this will allow them to not extend the benefits/mandate, but they will pay the financial penalty!
The the benefit to not extending medical coverage for large corporations , my opinion, just becomes financial gain for shareholders or higher level corporate earning.

And if a fast food joint pays someone next to nothing, and the employee only works 25 hours per week and doesn’t get medical, then most likely this person is getting subsidized assistance in some way, shape, or form. They do this because it’s offered, and some might say it’s because they are lazy. But it’s also a business owner, large or small, playing the system to retain as much profit as possible.

No matter what, we all agree that we pay for it no matter what, either a construction guy “small business owner” hiring an illegal alien/day laborer, for the day and the day laborer gets injured and dropped off at the hospital. Day laborer says his/her name, which is a false name, and the hospital is obligated to give them assistance.

But the paradox of not having the extra income…I could have the funds for upgrading the engine and clutch on my car :slight_smile:
Happy Thanksgiving everybody

#66

as usual spoke your posts show how your a fool. I dont for a second think you actually know what your talking about. Your post once again looks like your lying. Here is why. If you did actually pay 50% of the health insurance if you hired one more employee that would put you at the government mandate to pay 100% of ur employees health care…so don’t wine about big company policies when 49 is dodging the same way they are.

You say your giant corprate compedtitors have there feet to the fiire but then just say how they are smart enough to get around it and they are getting around it. They wont pay a penalty. If you really did have that many employees and actually paid for 50% 9f there insurence thrn you would be saying what euroswager ssid…this is bad for business…because if you were really paying for insurance rates you would see they just skyrocketed

This debate is about health insurence and how the governemt messed it up. MORE PEOPLE HAVE LOST INSURENCE from the OBAMA CRIME THEN SIGNED UP OR GOT INSURENCE…

No we don’t all agree that we pay for this no matter what. Most people are responcible and got there own insurence. Those people who bought there own insurence were polled 3 years ago and 90% of them were happy with there insurence now they don’t have it. So the 10% of failed lazy loosers that choose to not get insurence or were not citisizen can get more of our money.

#67

You are so selfish to only pay for 50% of their medical expense. I cannot believe you won’t pay for the entire thing. Such a greedy profit seeking capitalist.

You may disguise this as an altruistic maneuver, but in essence it is you being competitive and offering a retainment package to your employees in the form of healthcare reimbursement. This is entirely your prerogative, but it is not a basic right for the employer to pay for the employees health insurance. This was manifested after years of competitive pressure from corporations seeking the best employees by offering the best packages, not the other way around.

If you were smart about this, you would give people a nominal raise to help pay for their own health insurance PREMIUM versus a percentage of their actual health expense(s). By not doing so, you have eliminated the incentive for your employees to shop for cheaper plans, live a healthier lifestyle, etc. – all things that keep YOUR business costs down, etc.

Whether you know it now or not, your business will eventually start passing the increased expenses onto the market with increased prices, layoffs, etc.

Good luck.

#68

Notarmed was actually armed with a great post amd some good facts.

#69

Wonder what employees would rather have…half a health insurance plan or the cash and the responsibility to find their own.

I bet they’d want the cash.

Problem is if you do give them cash to do it on their own, and then it’s mandated that an employer pays for health care or some percentage, good fucking luck making them to understand that they now need to take a paycut as part of their salary/hourly was earmarked for them to buy healthcare with.

#70

ChrisK,
I can speak for only my industry
I have a total of 13 employees. half are part PTE. When I wrote about 49 employees or less, you assumed I had 49 employees? I don’t, but understand, small businesses have a more difficult position in the market place. We have to find a healthcare broker that can try to provide the best deal and we generally don’t get the same great medical premium prices. We are exempt from FMLA, because the impact it can have on the productivity.

I offer three policies, a lower premium/high deductible, a middle prices, and a higher premium with lower deductible. I pay half and since my big boxed competitors offer nothing, it gives me an advantage. Because if someone is working less than 25 hours as per the deemed “full time employment” definition, then they will most likely need a second job.
I’d love to extend more cash to allow the employee to shop the marketplace for a better rate, but if I do that, there is no requirement for me to force them to use the extra cash to pay for it. and in California, there’s a tax in place that escalates annually if they don’t use the medical. But it is still cheaper for them to avoid the medical. so there’s still incentive for a younger person to opt out.
I know of one employee of mine that is almost 50 years of age and would pocket the cash. that employee is a smoker, a drinker, has hep c, pancreatitus…oh and the latest, congestive heart failure.
Notarmed,

I’m selfish? and I doubt you didn’t purchase that mohawk lift from an auto parts store, did you. hence, when people bypass the small business retailer, the small business retailer makes do with what they earn. perhaps you do support a small retailer, where did that alternator come from? There’s a reason I’m asking.

and would you begin supporting a business that only paid full medical and seek them out for all of your purchases? because if you did, it would improve healthcare for the employees.
about big companies : Sarbanes Oxley, because they took the money and ran, just like some individuals would. doesn’t matter if they are white or blue collar.

#71

Your post comes off like you have been drinking all day (given the holiday). Sounds like a good time.

But you did prove my point, in that this has nothing to do with healthcare but you being a smart business owner.

Not sure why you are bringing up Sarbanes. My brother’s career specializes in taking companies dark (i.e. public companies to private) because of the regulatory and expensive nature of SOX. SOX is actually stifling innovation and the ability for small business startups to grow with the market because of its expensive burden (i.e. paying for financial audits once you hit 500 shareholders, that is NOT cheap). Ask anyone with half a brain if they think SOX is actually counter measuring the accounting fraud it was supposed to eliminate. Another great example of overreaching government legislation trying to eliminate human greed. You are never going to legislate “out” human greed, especially when those who are writing the bill have half a dozen lobbyists in their ear telling them what words to use. Speaking of greed and politics, back to Obamacare! lol

#72

^^ Excellent post. SOX is a scandalous piece of legislation that moves us ever closer to actually criminalizing free enterprise. It was the GOP’s version of obama"care" (and Dodd-Frank).

BTW, what’s wrong with greed? Who is John Galt? . . .

#73

So after 2 months of obama"care," a net 5.5 million Americans have lost their health insurance.

Lulz.

Edit: to clarify, the lulz is not directed at the people losing health insurance, but rather to those who inexplicably continue to believe in the propriety of central planning.

#74

I haven’t read it all, but a fascinating read nonetheless. I can’t verify if his story is typical.

http://truecostofhealthcare.org/
(A doctor explains healthcare costs in California)