Looks like fun advancements being made on our platform. I sold him my APR intake and he’s a really good guy. I think he has posted here a few times.
-Skid
Who will he go for custom tuning? EPL…EFTG? oh shit SRM?
His install looks great, hope he can trust the person tuning his car though.
The only thing that would frighten me is “I ran it on my B5” comment. I wonder if it was well sorted or the normal 400whp 13sec variety.
Another thing I would point out is the line length to each port. I would have ran a loop type setup to the 6 port manifold and then equal length lines to each port so that one port doesn’t get starved/overloaded.
Does anyone agree?
Pic for clarification:
https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/92800314/Photo%20Jan%2014%2C%204%2051%2049%20PM.jpg
Nice install. I’m actually rather impressed SRM already has meth plates built for this. Not that it’d be terribly difficult, just a bit surprised. Wonder if it’s a look into a requirement they needed to keep things relatively in check while they attempt the twincharger setup?
Aquamist is one of the best methanol companies though. But it all falls back on the install and tuning at the end of the day.
At the end of the day though, he’s most likely not going to see $1500-$2000 of improvement. So hard to say it was really worthwhile for most likely negligible gains. Would be an interesting comparison to CPS though.
Also I wonder if he’s going to retune at all or not. I’m sure the APR tune is designed to take advantage of some extra octane. So as long as he’s running a 50/50 spray with appropriate volume, I don’t see why a re-tune would be in order.
the best part is the ETG scammers have fooled the B8 Section with the new name.
The person posting as ETG is actually josh from jfonz.
Its not advancement its more bs… wmeth cools more pre blower not post blower. The thing making all the heat is the blower and the rotors…thats fail number one…number two was I the only one that saw the plates didnt fit right into the ports…three euroswag ia right thats a huge mess with unequal line length…for the last laugh ETG just shows again how fucking stupid they are as that plate isnt going to be useful for direct port nitrous…firect port nitrous requirements are more then a port…what a fucking mess of stupidly
Its actually comical…how did that brain crash go
ETG says__…oh hey…there is a hole there…you can spray nitrous threw that…
Everyone thats smarter then a 4 year old thinks__…sure ETG because there are patents on nitrous spray nozels because its as simple as a hole…
I’m just going to point out that the car that had the same setup that eurocode originally built was relocated to vegas through a sale or something and someone involved with ETG/SRM had access to that car and undoubtedly just had the plates copied.
That’s my guess anyway ;D
I would love to have that sort of setup either way.
Thanks skidrowe for posting this over here, great to hear feedback from everyone in the b8 platform.
As for the tune, I really want a tune where i can switch out programs and not be limited to be running meth 24/7. I still have my logging to do which should help me decide if i do go with an off the shelf tune for 100oct and will it be safe enough to run. Since i do have a Stasis tune in the car right now, my cheapest option would be having them just switch it to a revo program with multiple maps, second cheapest would be apr with their power play deal. Right now my only option for a custom tune is EPIC, ETG, fonzie, whatever you guys want to call it. So i really dont know what direction i want to go. In this case i dont know if cheap is worth it.
My b5 hit 469whp/483tq on 034ms dyno @23lbs and e85, i had only taken it to the track once but the clutch failed on me, pos rs4 pp, one of the fingers broke off. Parted out the car so i will never know how fast it would have been.
Link to the dyno sheets and other sheets to compare, the b8 s4’s were around 350-380whp that day. http://www.audizine.com/forum/showthread.php/476419--Pictures-amp-Dynos--from-the-034Motorsport-Dyno-Day-amp-Open-House-March-17th-2012
Thanks for the suggestion on the routing of the manifold, i never thought of doing it that way. I may buy a tee and route it in a loop, the other side of the manifold is just plugged. I did route the lines that the furthest away cylinders were the first ones coming off the manifold. I thought about equal length lines, but there was not much length difference and i am running checkvalve jets to keep the lines always full of fluid.
Why do you say it cools more pre blower? On a typical turbo setup, you inject post blower also, i have not seen many meth setups pre blower on FI. What the w/m is doing is ultimately cooling the combustion chamber to reduce knock so injecting closest to the chamber has the most benefits.
The plates were only placed on the head when i took pictures, i didnt line them up properly for the pics, they do fit perfectly on the ports.
Like i mentioned above about the lines, since im using the checkvalve jets they are always primed, the reason Aquamist made these jets was for direct port manifold applications.
I tried to contact eurocode about theirs but they wouldnt sell them to me without having them install everything. Looking at the pictures of eurocodes, they are fairly different, but at the same time how many different ways can you make a plate with a hole in it? Im just glad someone made some for sale on the open market.
infinkc, Good stuff man! Thanks for sharing… If you don’t mind sharing logs once you compile them I think most would appreciate it… Jeff(Jones2012S4) is running W/M pre blower so it would be neat to compare #'s with him… The key though as you said is getting the car tuned for it… W/O tune you could probably run the 100 tune on 93 with W/M and take advantage of the extra timing fairly safely… I tried contacting EC on these as well and they were pricks about selling them… LOL… There loss but I’m sure they are a huge outfit so the sale doesn’t really matter… They have enough people buying their headers and making big power… LOL
I think he’s using aquamist’s nozzles with the built in check valves. I.e. the length should be not be as relevant since the fluid is always present all the way to the nozzle, and it isn’t until after a certain pressure level that they open up. Again, equal length would be nicer, but not as crucial via my understanding.
I’d again question why you need to necessarily retune. With the turbo car you were probably upping the boost while running the meth setup. But with the s/c that’s not as relevant since the pulley size is constant. Even with turbo setup, a good tune would take advantage of the elements and create more power without a meth dependent tune.
A good tune should be able to take advantage of the slight increase in octane, and the water is just going to keep temps down which a good tune will also take advantage of by using more timing if possible.
Lol, don’t worry about posting dynos here man, we know all about b5 problems
Install looks very clean but I would still worry about unequal amounts of water meth getting to cylinders and with the manifold being fed from one side I’d be worried about a line possibly being starved.
I truly have no experience with this though so it’s just something I thought I’d mention. I hate to see anyone ruin their motor. If you think the pump will keep up enough pressure and you current setup will suffice then disregard my comments.
I don’t think you should compare meth on turbochargers to superchargers, it’s kind of a different world. I know tons of terminator cobra guys and lightning guys spray pre-blower. Seems like direct port injection combined with novice tuners could be a huge headache.
I say it cools more pre blower because it cools more pre blower. why are you talking about a turbo set up… you don’t have a turbo set up and this isn’t a turbo car. I know the dum ass kids who sold you on this idea don’t know better so let me help.
Try looking at the 50+ supercharged OEM cars that have added W/M. What did they all find out… W/M pre blower is much better for best results… Take some time and think about this. What makes your power… your blower…what is your heat sorce…your blower…what do you want to run the most efficent in helping make power…your blower… You want to cool combustion chamber temps cool the thing making the temps go up. Its comon sense and its been proven for the past 20 years with people doing this on other platforms…
Just letting you know. Don’t be fooled by kids with no experience getting you excited about a product. None of them are even smart enough to know you can’t use those plates for nitrous…well you can’t if you actually know what your doing…
Im not saying you can’t enjoy this and have fun. Im just saying you don’t need to go through all the trouble you did and put plates on the car. W/M works the best when you actually cool the thing making the power and creating the heat.
Actually, that could be an incredibly expensive option.
GOapr
ChrisK, just curious (and I have 0 application history on s/c cars), but when JHM was looking into w/m as an option on their S/C kit, it was post blower. Was this to do to the Centrifugal blower blower not generating near the same amount of heat as a manifold blower, or due to something else?
The JHM kit was at 6 psi so certainly not a big heat concern…and the cfuge is not similar to these roots OEM setups. Very different application.
Note his post he said ‘Try looking at the 50+ supercharged OEM cars that have added W/M.’
In almost every (in fact, in every one I can think of) OEM SC application, the blower is embedded in the manifold.
Maddog… with jhm I don’t know. Sakimano said it best less then 6psi thers isn’t much heat to worry about and cfuge blowers are not mounted on a heat sorce. The OEM guys have found that cooling the supercharger over all is much better due to the supercharger actually is whats making the power. The more efficent the supercharger the more power it will make.
It just sucks the people like INFIKC get taken advantage of becuase they are excited. This is just like most platrorms people make product and even tho they might not work or might not be the best people buy them becuase they are excited and want to push the limits…when in this case cooling the blower is the best option for power…just like everyother kinda half thought out product INFIKC is smart and he will make this wrok best it can and im sure get somethign out of it.
Yea I’m in complete agreement and figured that was the crucial difference. Just thought it was interesting. In turbo application, pre turbine gets a bit tricky. But manifold application is often pre charger, or sometimes pre & post charger.
In fact, it’s kinda interesting when you raise that question, are there any oem applications with centrifugal blowers? I never thought about it, and I understand the benefits of a production manifold system, but it’s kinda surprising there aren’t any oem centrifugal systems considering their own advantages.
Funny,
When I posted on audizine, the rocket scientists said it was pointless spraying pre blower. Even though I argued the logic and what not with them, showed them examples from the corvette and mustang crowds, etc. The biggest benefit I see for this setup is the guaranteed octane boost in the cylinders.
The only one that came to my mind and while OEM it certainly wasn’t mainstream car was the Shelby Series 1 used a centrifugal blower… There may be others but I can’t think of them… I believe the Saleen(basically a mustang and I’m referring to the 90’s-00’s not new ones) S351 used a centi blower as well but most of the other Saleens used Eaton roots… Curious to see if there are others myself…
^^^weren’t they saying it would destroy the rotors? 
Destroy the rotors
Wouldn’t cool the charger
Meth would make it to cylinders
Etc, everyone was suddenly meth experts who had run it on all their positive displacement blowers before on their last car.
My dealership doesn’t even care that it’s in there.