Why Audi?

B6/7 S4/RS4
#1

So I’m having a hard time coming to grips with my decision to purchase a B6 S4 for modifying.

I love the platform and how it drives… but the bottom line is that they are pretty slow. Now I understand that one person’s “slow” may very well be another person’s “OMG rocketship”, but at the end of the day, when compared to many other sportscars/sports-sedans on the market, they just don’t hang.

And I’m not just talking about stock cars… I’m including the modified ones as well. As well as the almighty RS4 too (fears backlash).

I just think it’s crazy to dump $15,000 into a 20-25k S4, or $35k RS4, just to dip into the 10-11 second 1/4 mile range. Maybe I’m wrong.

Sorry for the rant, I guess I’m just looking for some justification from those who have done the above about why they didn’t choose another platform that was “easier/cheaper” to see bigger performance gains.

Again, I have much Audi love… just curious if anyone else feels my pain.

(Mike Myers from “Coffee Talk”)…Discuss.

#2

For me, it’s the interior. That’s how I ended up with my first Audi, an A3. It was just a very nice place to be for my 18 mile commute.

Then I moved to Canada. A second reason appeared: quattro. quattro kept me going during big snowstorms. Plus, quattro is pretty forgiving off the line (think 1/4 mile) and in the twisties.

Now if you don’t care about these things and care more about out and out speed - domestic is the way forward. Something practical but fast? Jeep SRT8 doesn’t struggle to get into the 12’s. bora will chip in with CTS-V experience. Something newer in a coupe? Boss 302 is a pretty cool car.

#3

I like edit: LOVE my car because it does everything well. Sure, it’s not the best at any one thing but I never feel at a loss.

  • I can plow through snow whereas most rear wheel performance sedans need to be super careful.

  • I can carry a crap load of stuff (not long ago, I had to carry a full exhaust system back for someone because it didn’t fit in the sedan the guy was hitching a ride with :slight_smile:

  • I can hang with (and often beat) most sedans on the road (both straight line and in twisties) (because modified)

  • I can drive 10 straight hours and walk perfectly fine once I arrive

How many cars can claim that? Yes, I probably spent upwards of $25k in mods on my car to get there but that’s still cheaper than buying a new car (seeing as I bought mine slightly used) and in any case, there aren’t really any new cars on the road that meet all of my demands. Audi never brought the B8 S4 Avant over which would be the only contender.

I plan on keeping my car for as long as I can. It’s a perfect all-rounder for me and my daily driver.

My name is Axel and I’m an S4 Avant driver :slight_smile:

#4

Bangoman: I agree on both counts… Audi interior is very hard to beat.

And being in Utah, the Quattro is the main reason I purchased the S4. I guess my biggest concern is the cost per HP on this platform. You can spend the money and have a 12 second car. I just wonder if there is anything that can really match in terms of the overall product.

Yes, the domestics are hard to compete with… LSX motors are just plain nasty. Big power, big aftermarket support. But really, I’d probably prefer the S4 to a Mustang. CTS-V is another great choice, but again not the whole package when you compare to the Audi Quattro.

I was tempted by the 335ix (gasp… I know). Great motors, similar European styling and interior. My wife really wants to get one for herself in the next 6-12 months, so maybe I will have the best of both worlds. But talk about price/HP… those things are crazy. Cobb AP for $850 plus a couple bolt-ons and you are making gains that rival the $8k (or whatever it is, thought it was around there) JHM SC kit. And that’s not JHM’s fault, turbo DI in-line 6s are just not fair to try and compete with.

I would love to have a mid to low 12 second daily driver. And I know it can be done with bolt-ons for the most part. I just want to know if after spending 10’s of thousands of dollars on the S4, if I will really be happy with the end product. Or will I wish I had purchased a different platform from the outset. I just imagine the pain of getting walked on by an Evo 8 or something after maxing out what the S4/RS4 has to offer.

And for some background on my car history… I was very into Mazda Rx-7s for many years. My last one being completely built, big single turbo, alcohol injection etc etc. Never got it to the dyno before I sold it, but from my math it should have been in the 400-425 RWHP range at around 15-17 PSI.

That being said, I do not live my life a 1/4 at a time. Most of my desire is conceptual. I like the idea of building a car, making it better than it was from the factory. Yes, I will go to the track occasionally, but I also cringe a little when I beat on my cars. I actually never really get to drive the car hard at all during my 8 mile commute. But the few times I do… it always puts a smile on my face. ;D

You’re right Axel. Maybe this is where I have a hard time with the S4… At 400+ HP, an Rx-7 can dip into the high 10’s with a good driver (solidly in the 11s for most). I guess I have to realize that S4s are not little 2-seaters… they are big, heavy sedans that really aren’t made for straight line speed. The S4 does a ton of things well, just nothing excellent. It’s a trade-off for balance vs single aspect potential.

Maybe I need to get a B5 for my fast car and keep the B6 as my DD that just sounds like it’s really fast. :wink:

#5

Well that’s just it. There’s always going to be someone faster than you (unless maybe if you buy a Veyron or something but even then, some independent tuner/manufacturer probably already beat the Veyron by now like those 1500 hp kits for the GT-R or a Keonigsegg or something along those lines).

So you need to ask yourself, where do you stop? Want to beat a corvette? Which one? A CTS-V? Sure, which one, stock or Hennessy? An EVO or STI? Sure, one that’s stripped of everything with their motor so boosted it’s ready to blow and has no refinement or luxury?

You need to decide when it’s too much. The BMW is a nice car in its own right. Nothing wrong with it. Had they come out with a 335xi wagon, I might have considered it. It would have been the only other vehicle that checked all the boxes. Unfortunately, they only had the 328xi in wagon format at the time (and I think it’s still the case but I haven’t checked).

So yeah, I don’t think anyone here will laugh at you if you get a 335xi. Just remember, that will get its ass kicked as well (with the power mods) and possibly by a small light super boosted 4 banger. It’s a choice and you need to draw your own line.

I’m comfortable with mine. I’m not going to win a race against a 500/600whp supercharged M3 but at least I can go to Home Depot and pick up a crap load of equipment after the race or pick up 4 friends and their luggage and go on a road trip and ski chalet. He can’t :slight_smile:

#6

Some pics of the Rx-7 for grins… ;D

http://i122.photobucket.com/albums/o247/G-Rat_photos/Carsoldpics008.jpg

http://i122.photobucket.com/albums/o247/G-Rat_photos/normal_DSC_1459.jpg

http://i122.photobucket.com/albums/o247/G-Rat_photos/normal_DSC_1485.jpg

#7

Well that’s a good point Axel. And I guess that’s what I need to figure out.

I really don’t want some monster car that is a basketcase and impossible to drive on the street etc. I’m not looking to set any landspeed records or something. I would just like something that could beat a stock/mildly modified Viper/Corvette or mild/moderately modified ____ (insert mid-level import here).

I’m not 18 anymore. Being the fastest on the street really shouldn’t be my concern. I’m sure I would be 1000% happy with a car like yours Axel. I just need to change my preception of the “type” of car that I want.

I like the idea of a 400-500 AWHP S4… I think that would be a really great package that would be hard to beat as far as the overall checklist is concerned.

You’ve helped me see the light Axel… thank you. Now… anyone wanna let me borrow $30,000? ???

#8

You need to figure out what attributes you value most from a car. Is it just speed or a combination of a bunch of things that make your car special for you? The B5 S4 is widely known as a budget speedster. If you value speed more than anything else it is a great car to own. Personally, I would much rather have my 13 second B7 than any (save a few stage III widebody avants out there) 11 second B5. Its just a matter of personal preference. I value the style, sound, interior, DD dynamics and fit and finish of my car. Many B5ers on the forums have a hard time understanding this and I don’t blame them because they value the thing(s) more that make the B5S4 special to them.

btw The S/C’d B7 RS4 will dominate all soon enough. It will be hard to argue is superior attributes in all categories…except, of coarse, price :wink:

#9

the audi is a comprmise of all the things we need and want as mature adults. 4 doors 4wheel drive great style great protection comfort interior gagtets

The hp per dollar raito has always been over looked when you look to turbo cars but here is what the quick hp to dollar ratio gets over looked. The quick power of teh turbo upgrade via boost threw chip or turbo upgrade quickly falls when you realize that maintence is going to go threw the roof. While you can get a quick 80hp jump in some turbo cars with a chip. What gets missed is that now the IC is maxed out and the turbos are getting over worked yourseals are starting to fail and your other suppoing cast needs to be changed as well stuff like deverter valves. So the big turbo jujmp is quick but the money comes fast later.

I love the fact that I can bust some serious ass with my audi and most guys didn’t see it comming. One of the great things is a CTS-V mustang Vet or SRT-8 anything your getting eyeballed by the cops you kinda get egnored if you have a audi… lots of good purks… the only bad thing is the B5 guys are brining a lot of on wanted attentopn to us with tehre ricer additions LOL

#10

Yes, the price is the big one there… you can get a TON of car at SC’d RS4 pricepoint.

And you also bring up a difficult issue I have… Love my B6 but the B7 body style is soooooooooooo much sexier. At least whatever parts I buy for the B6 can be transferred over to a B7 for the most part.

#11

And a pic of the B6 while I’m at it…

(Please excuse the cheezy grin. First day I got the car, I was like a kid with a new toy.)

#12

Very true… the S4 really is an adult car that I’m proud to drive (even though it’s almost 10 years old).

Prior to buying the S4, I was really leaning towards an STI. Then my wife brought up a good point… “What would you think of you, if you saw yourself driving through your parking garage at work in an STI? With that ridiculous wing and hood scoop.” (Keep in mind that I work at an investment bank… BMWs and Benzes as far as the eye can see)

#13

My 04 B6 Avant is just about perfect for my needs. I live in the greater Cincy area and my Lady lives in St Louis. Probably 95% of my driving is interstate. My .528 sixth gear gets me 24-25 mpg depending on how much the other superslab drivers want to play. The Recaro’s are the most comfortable seats I have experienced since the Recaro I had in my 80 Jetta. I put over 430,00 miles on that one. Comfort and performance. That’s what I need. My Avant does it for me, and as I keep improving it, it just gets better.

#14

The should be quoted to every punk on the forums that turns up and says “get a chip moar boost, NA is crap”. There are so many supporting mods to be done with a turbo car, cooling being one of the trickiest. As I am finding out with my 5cyl 20vt

#15

I just wish someone in Utah had a car with a JHM SC on it so I could take a ride and feel the powa. Or at least one with tune, exhaust and all the other goodies. I’m sure that I’m just underestimating how truely awesome 330-400 is in an S4.

#16

Why Audi? (“almighty RS4” for me :slight_smile: )

  1. AWD
    End thread because I live in Canada.

Sure an RX with a bunch if mods would be quicker for cheaper but it would rattle like fuck, not be nearly as comfortable, would be retarded in rain being 2 wd…never mind the snow, would not feel very grown up should you need to drive your boss/parent/grand parent/girlfriend somewhere, and would sound embarrassing. There are twenty reasons not to want a heavily modified cheaper, small engine car. There are like two reasons not to want a beautiful, unique as hell, German V8 powered sport sedan.

Those reasons not to buy the RX are actually, if you take the opposite of them, reasons TO buy the Audi for me. As I mentioned though my search begins and ends with AWD, and I hate Subaru and evo, don’t like the BMW moniker…and the only interesting Benz that can make power and is AWD is going to be an e, CLS or s class 550 4matic, and those are all way too big and sloppy…not to mention automatic only.

I’m probably older too, so keep that in mind with my comments about the rx or similar small motor, loud as fuck fart can cars. I just won’t be seen in one lol.

#17

I have yet to find a car with an interior like an Audi. Also, AWD sedans are pretty slim pickens and those that do exist cannot compete as far as looks and the amazing ride. Plus I will never find another car that makes peoples face light up when you mention it has a 4.2l V8 shoe horned under the hood!!

#18

I’m probably older too, so keep that in mind with my comments about the rx or similar small motor, loud as fuck fart can cars. I just won’t be seen in one lol.
[/quote]
Wait til you get to be my age (70). Then you will really appreciate comfort and performance.

#19

Haha Saki… I knew that you would notice the “allmighty” comment.

I totally agree though. My Rx-7s did not have near the build quality of my S4. But for pure cost/performance and performance overall, they were hard to beat. I remember just smelling like Hydrocarbons for hours after I would drive it somewhere. The fast ones were scary when driven in the dry and I never dared to take them out in the rain… not on purpose at least. And yes, I can admit, one exhaust configuration did include the 5" tip fart can exhaust. I hated the look but that was the only exhaust setup that made the rotary sound even remotely deep. But after a few years I learned the importance of quiet exhaust and never looked back.

That being said… I’ve heard some seriously loud S4/RS4s out there. Mostly on Youtube etc but anytime I see the words “non-res” in a car description… my ears bleed.

But you nailed it. The difference between many other “fast” cars and something of S4 caliber is maturity. The B6/B7 can be civil and also fast at the same time. Great balance between handling, styling, ride (although if I didn’t know better I would think that mine has aftermarket suspension… the ride is quite rough), and speed. All other car builds generally sacrifice creature comforts and reliability in the name of speed. That’s just something that most Audi owners are unwilling to agree with. I guess I just need to realize that I’m getting older and I’m not willing to sacrifice everything else in the name of having a car that runs a xx.xx @ 1xx in the 1/4 mile or that can beat the guy down the street in his xxxx. (BTW… my Rx-7 didn’t have A/C, a heater, power steering or a radio and constantly had my laptop in the passenger in case of tuning issues etc :-X )

I would never do a Benz though… can’t do automatic cars. They are just boring. And in terms of Subarus, I will quote my local Audi mechanic… “Have you ever closed the door on one? It’s like slamming the door on a ToughShed”.

#20

The sc makes a considerable difference. Just on Friday, I drove a JHM tuned S4 Avant with full catless exhaust and it felt slowish now (I daily drive mine). I then let the other owner drive mine for a bit and as a passenger, my car felt even faster (I truly felt pushed back into my seat).

However, you believe your RX-7 was pushing 400 rwhp or so, so you should know what that feeling is like (and heck, I’m sure your RX-7 was a tons lighter than the S4).