I’m still waiting for a reply from JHM but all the troubles you guys are having with shifting under high rpm high load is the same as I have. I have tried a lot of stuff and soon I hope to have a comprehensive answer, but don’t hold yor breath.
they are having no trouble SHIFTING. Yours sounded quite different to be honest. I believe you mentioned it wouldn’t go in gear at all? i.e. you had to jam it in gear? I haven’t seen any of these guys complain about that.
Yeah the higher the RPMs got the harder it got to engage into gear… the shifter vibrates along with the steering wheel… it almost feels like something is off as the RPMs build… it comes right out of gear but then is very hard to get into gear… after a good push or pull it will go in, no clunks or grinding, just not the usual flick I’m used to…
Saki sub has this trouble does he not?
ahh, sorry. Didn’t realise he was the guy with the gearbox problem.
sub did you have the problem going into 3rd and 4th BEFORE the JHM clutch? Or after? Immediately after?
No zero shifting problems before the JHM install… I was thinking the vibrations were coming from not having that extra 13 lbs of flywheel. Everything was smooth and fluid before the install… And from what I can gather the tech who did the install was their #1 guy, who did everything from the install sheet provided by JHM…
Saki, also I only have like 700 miles on the whole setup so its hard to say if it was immediately after, I got the car after the motor was reassembled and like 50 miles were put on it to seat the new rings… to me something felt off vibration wise, but the shifting progressively got worse and worse, harder and harder the higher the RPMs went… then today I had my first grind when i went from 5th to 6th doing a steady 65 mph…
This is a possible syncro issue. The heavy flywheel will help keep the RPMS uip where the LW JHM unit spins up fast and will fall fast. So if your syncros are bad or going bad this can be an issue. The vibration… did you upgrade any of the mounts
Regardless of how good the install guy was. Make sure they put locktight on the bolts. They tend to back out and that will cause the pedal to get stuck at the bottom.
This could be a crushed syscrio. being from GM performance this signialed a bad or faialing syncro
A few things.
Clutch wise its possible and almost the case as Ive seen in several cars that have come into the dealership. If the slave system isnt bleed properly or fully there are going to be these kinds of issues.
When you bleed your slave you need to be on perfictly level ground. If your not level this will effect the results.
When you add big power your going to be putting a little more issues on the brake booster under large load. There are the chances that this will not fully charge the hydrolic system. If your hard on the brakes and then push in the clutch you already depressed the hydrolic system all the way. So there is going to be a dead spot.
First off make sure this vibration isn’t coming from the motor. Next make sure to check the bolts (I know its not easy) The one piece JHM flywheel that I saw was ballened and it came right from jhm I assume they all are. So the liklyhood of that being the issue is small. In most cases if the flywheel is out of ballence it will change with RPM.
Also take the time to consider changing the line from the slave. When gieven the notion that the JHM clutch has a much larger clamp load you need to consider getting a better hydrolic line to help not flex and to strafe off pressure possibly resulting in the lost hydrolic pressure
Unfortunately my mechanic didn’t have the time to address the clutch woes so now it’ll have to wait till next week.
This thread is getting a little confusing as there seems to be different clutch issues here. I think SpeedETC, Maddog and myself experienced the same issue, sub has another and horsepower also has another. I’ve never had issues shifting into gear and I don’t recall Speed and Maddog having any either. For us, it was just a clutch pedal not coming back at WOT above 5k rpms. WOT but stopping before high rpms was fine and slow gradual climbs to 5k+ rpms were also fine. Also, the faster I shift when at WOT above 5k rpms, the more the clutch pedal sticks.
Another thing to note. When it happened today, before pulling the pedal back into place, the point of friction was instant. In other words, the pedal was half an inch from fully pressed down and another half inch up was the point of friction. However, when I pulled the pedal back into place, all was back to normal. Wtf???
Axel, that happened to me as well… along with it being hard as hell to shift into gear, when the peddle stuck to the floor i was on the highway in 6th… i was driving along for a good 15 minutes before i even noticed it was stuck on the floor and the clutch was engaged the whole time… very weird… very funny how all this is happening to us at the same time
All I can say is this:
JHM has developed a very specialized clutch and lightweight flywheel for these cars, using a very particular pressure plate. They have designed it with the assumption that people will follow EXACTLY what the instructions say. Not substituting parts…not substituting processes…just do it exactly the way it was designed to be installed, with the parts it was designed to be installed with.
IF you do this, you can have success. If you don’t do this, you may be lucky enough to back into success, however down the road you will have an issue. I could probably list dozens of people with a great experience with these clutch setups. I could also count probably half a dozen guys who have had threads like these come up, and on teardown we have seen time and time again that something in that very specific group of parts or processes was missed. Hopefully not the case here.
For me, the installation was done by a JHM approved mechanic and I followed the break-in period to a T (I don’t even have ANY chatter it’s so well broken in 
) so I’m not sure what my problem is. We’re swapping out the slave cylinder next week. We’ll see.
I’m just wondering what could possible change the point of friction on a clutch pedal. It’s like the entire throw of the pedal was reduced to an inch (i.e. everything works the way it’s supposed to work, I just only have an inch from all the way down to all the way up (until I manually pull the pedal back)). What the hell could cause something like that? Hydraulic based or mechanical? Logically, it sounds more hydraulic based as the clutch itself is working just fine. Weird…
sounds hydraulic to me
I don’t know how much of that I buy though. I don’t think the Count even knows you’re supposed to lift off the gas when shifting, and JHM’s videos show a lot of abuse with speed shifting showing how solid the product is. They designed these clutches to be bullet proof (not idiot proof though, that’s another story) and take abuse.
Obviously mine was installed by JHM, and I did a full proper break-in prior to romping on it (trust me, the count’s break-in tune was weaker than a std s4 probably and there was no spirited shifts during break in).
I gave my stock clutch HELL before swapping out b/c I really wanted to learn how to shift faster and more efficiently. It helped a lot being able to push it knowing it was going in the trash soon. The new setup has been killer for a long time. It wasn’t until just recently with slightly more aggressive tuning (still not even close to balls out) that I’ve been experiencing this issue. I haven’t had any time to look into it further though, work & life have been hectic and have really only driven the car maybe 4 times in the last 3 weeks.
i’m not talking about your specific problems (anyones). Just a PSA. With respect to being off the throttle I’m talking about when driving around normally, and I’m talking about RS4s so it’s nothing to do with you. More for sub. I see lots of RS4 drivers who glaze/slip their clutch going into EVERY gear. Doing that when you’re breaking in a clutch isn’t going to last.
Think back over the past 4 years. We’ve seen a dozen guys have problems with these clutches. Has it ever been the clutch or flywheel or pressure plate that has actually failed? Seems to have always been some other supporting hardware or installation problem.
You guys (axel, speedetc, madison) are all supercharged and can pretty much all rule out installer error. You can also pretty much rule out the clutch/flyywheel/pressure plate failing unless JHM didn’t account for the torque your SC cars would make (but it’s odd that half a dozen other supercharged/nitrous guys with the same setups aren’t having this problem).
sounds like a mess to me…gibson is having clutch issues too on quattroworld on his rs4 with jhm stg 4.
if i were to get a clutch I would go with the jhm setup but hearing all this shit scares me away now. glad i am not in need of one yet and hopefully by then they or someone will have something that is not such a beeitch to install, if it is install error.
of course you’re scared swesna. You come from quattroworld…land of no information and lots of FUD campaigning.
Let’s look at the timeline and facts around gibsonl instead to see why people on AR are not scared.
03/27 - JHM clutch installed
03/28 - gibsonl asks on quattrofail how to break in the clutch, even thought the JHM literature clearly says ‘750 miles of CITY DRIVING’
'So what exactly does driving 750 city miles mean? Do I want to be doing a lot of down shifting at low revs or high revs? I guess driving in one gear for long periods of time is worthless right. Have any of you noticed that if you try to let the clutch out with the car in first and adding late throttle, there’s a bit of a vibration in the drivetrain?
Why is he asking if the instructions are right there? Is he looking for a reason to shorten the breakin periiod by cutting some corners???
'I have to get these miles in within 8 days for my track event next weekend so I want to make sure I do this right! ‘’
OHHHH…okay, now we know where this is going (we have been posting about this guy on audirevolution in the lulz on other forums thread and others all week knowing he would fuck this up.
03/29 - Kai @ elite gives some terirble advice - ‘I’ve broken in a clutch in 250-300 miles pretty much 2 days before the Miami Mile for a 997T. Get on the highway and keep shifting 4-5-6, 4-5-6, 4-5-6…’
Note that NONE of this has ANYTHING to do with gibsonl’s question or the JHM break in method. He basically tells him to run 1/3 the recommended miles, and on the completely wrong place (highway, not city)…then admits that Kai didn’t trust that break in so he ran another car at the Miami Mile event.
03/29 - quattrothatcould, an A4 1.8T owner with NOTHING from JHM on his car, let alone a clutch/flywheel compounds the situation '2nd what Kai said. 750mi actually seems on the long end of what’s needed. ’
So now these fucking guys are re-writing the instructions for JHM???
gibsonl would never listen to them though, right???
03/29 - gibsonl says ‘I’m sure I’ll have 250 miles on it by tomorrow night so doing the 750 miles isn’t an issue. Hopefully I can put in 3-400 this weekend as well.’
Umm…doesn’t sound like he’s doing city miles, does it. He has 250 miles on the clutch in 2 days of city driving??? You have to be kidding me. Of course not. He’s doing fucking highway miles because someone told him what he wanted to hear (even though it’s the total OPPOSITE of what JHM told him to do).
04/03 - gibsoni on audiworld says ‘This stage 4 clutch has a super shallow engagement so should be quick!’ to which I reply ‘uh oh…should be just like stock. This is symptomatic of an install problem. Who installed it?’…which is when he tells us his Audi dealer did. Shiny floors there I guess. Must know what they’re doing.
04/03 - I realise who this is and confirm it 'Aren’t you the guy who had it installed like 5 days ago? And were advised that 250 miles of break in would be ok for you (and your trackday/dragstrip day)? If so I hope you ignored that advice and followed the instructions on break in. ’ gibsonl replies ‘I’m 650 miles in so no concerns with getting to 800-900 by Friday which meets the break-in requirement’ (basically dodging the question and the fact that he has NOT met the break in requirement. Highway miles doing the odd downshift do not equal city miles).
He was at 250 miles by March 30th…and is at 650 by April 3rd…so he put 400 miles on in 30 days. OK…so it’s a guarantee that he has IGNORED the JHM instructions of 750 miles of city break in miles…and has just been commuting on the highway using the Kai method (that Kai himself didn’t actually trust lol)
With all these warnings, he’d never go to a track day with an improperly broken in clutch that was already showing signs of an install problem, would he??
04/07 - gibsonl starts a thread on quattrofail showing a video from his track day at Summit. Guess he didn’t take the advice to skip the event and properly break it in. A3TDI, myself and Reggie all advised him to do that.
http://forums.quattroworld.com/rs4b7/msgs/79777.phtml
04/07 - gibsoni starts a ‘stage 4 clutch shuddering’ thread on quattrofail, and people like swesna get scared.
http://forums.quattroworld.com/rs4b7/msgs/79759.phtml
what about all of these ppl on this thread?? seems like numerous ppl are having issues…i have watched the entire gibson timeline and agree my ass would not have gone to the track…wait shit i do not go there anyway. I figured i got to at least enjoy my car w/o beating on it there for a year first.
seems like some ppl are saying it is install related, loctite on bolts or not properly bleeding the fluid
or it could be synchro gears
or it could be the parts that were installed
has to be something but how many cars are you hearing about with issues related to the jhm clutch … even those guys from England were having issues.
i think you are right maybe i can just stick to a part that is reliable ie the intake manifold spacer which from what i heard which may not be true is made by 034.
i like the whole idea around the lwfw and was/potentially am thinking about getting a stg 3/4 with lwfw from jhm but it does scare me hearing these issues.
hopefully you can summarize the true cause of these issues since it is really hard to track all of the ppl having issues on this thread ie some are S4, some are RS4, some have super chargers…oh wait that may be the cause of their potential issues too…too much hp.
I think the issues here all happen to be supercharged B7’s for some as yet unidentified reason. The irony is that the B6 kit uses an upgraded design from the B7 clutch. Yet none of the supercharged B6’s have had an issue. Same kit for the B6 and the B7.
As for Horsepower and sub, no idea what’s going on there but they’re RS4’s.