Dragstrip v. Road Course

[sakimano]

Explain what is wrong with sac again? The gas their 3rd party fuel vendor sells? How does that affect the track?

Just to be clear nobody is bracket racing here so consistency or hitting a number don’t matter . Just looking for et and mph to evaluate the modifications done to a car.

[aroderick56]

I would love to have an instructor in the right seat. That’s what us road course snobs do. We make n00bs carry around a 150 pound risk management device. My feelings are teflon coated so even if you were ugly in the thread I don’t mind if you come out to the strip to show me the ropes. People are cordial IRL.

Maybe you need an instructor but I never had one…

[westwest888]

West,
If you wanna meet up at sears point/sonoma raceway, let me know. I used to race years ago. i can show you how to stage and give you some baseline info for launching/staging. launching a RWD car, which i used to have, is a bit more tricky than AWD cars, but I can go and make some suggestions, or just talk to you over the phone, no biggie. some of my customers represent division 7 for regional/national events and I can always ask them for help as well.
I would avoid Sac raceway. If you want answers as to why, talk to local super gas people and they will explain it. I’ll just get yelled at on this forum about it. but I’ve raced there, and my Div. 7 customers have too, and there are legit reasons why I write this.
Gasoline: California pump gas will stratify if sitting in a tank for 60+days. Some race fuels are still compliant for over the road use, meaning the fuel is compromised for emission compliance. True race fuel is “offroad use only” not terribly enforceable, but that gas pump at sonoma/sears point has emission compliant high octane fuel, not true race fuel.
I used to think the gravity of the fuel made the power, but that’s incorrect, most gasoline race fuels are lighter than pump gas.
West, whatever you do, just be consistent about it. run a gas that you can regularly run, and use it. focus on weather conditions and driving and go to a test and tune day and practice, practice, practice! some people go to the track and just want the fast time. but the consistent driver and vehicle will continue to compete for running their number. Find a consistent launch rpm and stick with it. as the evening grows cooler at sonoma, pay attention to the wind at BOTH ends of the track, and the air temp and moisture. and at sonoma, you have the option of the gear jammer class, so if you are a manual trans, those designated lanes negate the advantage that an automatic has. If not, you are racin’ street or sport street. PM me if you wanna talk.

I appreciate this and will find a mutually convenient time.

@sakimano - SAC doesn’t even have gas. It’s like a dirt and gravel field with 1/3 mile of asphalt, no facilities on site except for some bleachers that look like they came from an underfunded high school from 1965. I found some pump gas at a regular gas station like 30 minutes away. That stuff by law is worse than the stuff they sell at offroad racetracks, because they assume you are streeting it.

[sakimano]

West,
If you wanna meet up at sears point/sonoma raceway, let me know. I used to race years ago. i can show you how to stage and give you some baseline info for launching/staging. launching a RWD car, which i used to have, is a bit more tricky than AWD cars, but I can go and make some suggestions, or just talk to you over the phone, no biggie. some of my customers represent division 7 for regional/national events and I can always ask them for help as well.
I would avoid Sac raceway. If you want answers as to why, talk to local super gas people and they will explain it. I’ll just get yelled at on this forum about it. but I’ve raced there, and my Div. 7 customers have too, and there are legit reasons why I write this.
Gasoline: California pump gas will stratify if sitting in a tank for 60+days. Some race fuels are still compliant for over the road use, meaning the fuel is compromised for emission compliance. True race fuel is “offroad use only” not terribly enforceable, but that gas pump at sonoma/sears point has emission compliant high octane fuel, not true race fuel.
I used to think the gravity of the fuel made the power, but that’s incorrect, most gasoline race fuels are lighter than pump gas.
West, whatever you do, just be consistent about it. run a gas that you can regularly run, and use it. focus on weather conditions and driving and go to a test and tune day and practice, practice, practice! some people go to the track and just want the fast time. but the consistent driver and vehicle will continue to compete for running their number. Find a consistent launch rpm and stick with it. as the evening grows cooler at sonoma, pay attention to the wind at BOTH ends of the track, and the air temp and moisture. and at sonoma, you have the option of the gear jammer class, so if you are a manual trans, those designated lanes negate the advantage that an automatic has. If not, you are racin’ street or sport street. PM me if you wanna talk.

I appreciate this and will find a mutually convenient time.

@sakimano - SAC doesn’t even have gas. It’s like a dirt and gravel field with 1/3 mile of asphalt, no facilities on site except for some bleachers that look like they came from an underfunded high school from 1965. I found some pump gas at a regular gas station like 30 minutes away. That stuff by law is worse than the stuff they sell at offroad racetracks, because they assume you are streeting it.

just trying to understand what 32spoke meant about not going to sac

usually people avoid slow tracks, not fast ones with great DA

p.s. spoke…when you ran at Sonoma wasn’t it not a real dragstrip? i.e. the straightaway of the road course? They have since added a proper dragstrip I believe. Maybe i’m mixing it up.

[westwest888]

West,
If you wanna meet up at sears point/sonoma raceway, let me know. I used to race years ago. i can show you how to stage and give you some baseline info for launching/staging. launching a RWD car, which i used to have, is a bit more tricky than AWD cars, but I can go and make some suggestions, or just talk to you over the phone, no biggie. some of my customers represent division 7 for regional/national events and I can always ask them for help as well.
I would avoid Sac raceway. If you want answers as to why, talk to local super gas people and they will explain it. I’ll just get yelled at on this forum about it. but I’ve raced there, and my Div. 7 customers have too, and there are legit reasons why I write this.
Gasoline: California pump gas will stratify if sitting in a tank for 60+days. Some race fuels are still compliant for over the road use, meaning the fuel is compromised for emission compliance. True race fuel is “offroad use only” not terribly enforceable, but that gas pump at sonoma/sears point has emission compliant high octane fuel, not true race fuel.
I used to think the gravity of the fuel made the power, but that’s incorrect, most gasoline race fuels are lighter than pump gas.
West, whatever you do, just be consistent about it. run a gas that you can regularly run, and use it. focus on weather conditions and driving and go to a test and tune day and practice, practice, practice! some people go to the track and just want the fast time. but the consistent driver and vehicle will continue to compete for running their number. Find a consistent launch rpm and stick with it. as the evening grows cooler at sonoma, pay attention to the wind at BOTH ends of the track, and the air temp and moisture. and at sonoma, you have the option of the gear jammer class, so if you are a manual trans, those designated lanes negate the advantage that an automatic has. If not, you are racin’ street or sport street. PM me if you wanna talk.

I appreciate this and will find a mutually convenient time.

@sakimano - SAC doesn’t even have gas. It’s like a dirt and gravel field with 1/3 mile of asphalt, no facilities on site except for some bleachers that look like they came from an underfunded high school from 1965. I found some pump gas at a regular gas station like 30 minutes away. That stuff by law is worse than the stuff they sell at offroad racetracks, because they assume you are streeting it.

just trying to understand what 32spoke meant about not going to sac

usually people avoid slow tracks, not fast ones with great DA

p.s. spoke…when you ran at Sonoma wasn’t it not a real dragstrip? i.e. the straightaway of the road course? They have since added a proper dragstrip I believe. Maybe i’m mixing it up.

It’s like an infield plus a short straightaway at the bottom of a carousel.

[justincredible]

West,
If you wanna meet up at sears point/sonoma raceway, let me know. I used to race years ago. i can show you how to stage and give you some baseline info for launching/staging. launching a RWD car, which i used to have, is a bit more tricky than AWD cars, but I can go and make some suggestions, or just talk to you over the phone, no biggie. some of my customers represent division 7 for regional/national events and I can always ask them for help as well.
I would avoid Sac raceway. If you want answers as to why, talk to local super gas people and they will explain it. I’ll just get yelled at on this forum about it. but I’ve raced there, and my Div. 7 customers have too, and there are legit reasons why I write this.
Gasoline: California pump gas will stratify if sitting in a tank for 60+days. Some race fuels are still compliant for over the road use, meaning the fuel is compromised for emission compliance. True race fuel is “offroad use only” not terribly enforceable, but that gas pump at sonoma/sears point has emission compliant high octane fuel, not true race fuel.
I used to think the gravity of the fuel made the power, but that’s incorrect, most gasoline race fuels are lighter than pump gas.
West, whatever you do, just be consistent about it. run a gas that you can regularly run, and use it. focus on weather conditions and driving and go to a test and tune day and practice, practice, practice! some people go to the track and just want the fast time. but the consistent driver and vehicle will continue to compete for running their number. Find a consistent launch rpm and stick with it. as the evening grows cooler at sonoma, pay attention to the wind at BOTH ends of the track, and the air temp and moisture. and at sonoma, you have the option of the gear jammer class, so if you are a manual trans, those designated lanes negate the advantage that an automatic has. If not, you are racin’ street or sport street. PM me if you wanna talk.

I appreciate this and will find a mutually convenient time.

@sakimano - SAC doesn’t even have gas. It’s like a dirt and gravel field with 1/3 mile of asphalt, no facilities on site except for some bleachers that look like they came from an underfunded high school from 1965. I found some pump gas at a regular gas station like 30 minutes away. That stuff by law is worse than the stuff they sell at offroad racetracks, because they assume you are streeting it.

Honestly if you would like advice from someone that actually still races let me know. Not to be rude but only someone with an odd issue for a conspiracy would tell you to pick one track over the other. I read the post about him not thinking people should SAC and that’s just crazy and crazy thoughts. Not to be rude but spoke on one hand tells you to be consistent and then tells you do do everything but be consistent. It’s more of what you want to get away from not what you want to go tords… I’m sure he means we’ll but there are other people and options here for your support. . You would actually want to go back to your home track to keep things consistent. Second I think you should stick to what you were doing before fuel wise or stick to pump as you were originally doing.

[westwest888]

@Saki Elon Musk improved the speed of the P85D over the air. Realize that you are in a Stockholm syndrome with Audi. Audi should be giving us updates instead of Revo, APR and these gearhead come entrepreneurs.

https://twitter.com/elonmusk/status/560898568748531712

[sakimano]

@Saki Elon Musk improved the speed of the P85D over the air. Realize that you are in a Stockholm syndrome with Audi. Audi should be giving us updates instead of Revo, APR and these gearhead come entrepreneurs.

https://twitter.com/elonmusk/status/560898568748531712

you’re missing the point.

the rs7 rapes the p85d…is cheaper, is nicer to look at , sounds better, is far nicer inside, is much higher quality

THAT is why Tesla doesn’t makes sense. That doesn’t go away because they can update your launch control program (which is what that is).

[westwest888]

@Saki Elon Musk improved the speed of the P85D over the air. Realize that you are in a Stockholm syndrome with Audi. Audi should be giving us updates instead of Revo, APR and these gearhead come entrepreneurs.

https://twitter.com/elonmusk/status/560898568748531712

you’re missing the point.

the rs7 rapes the p85d…is cheaper, is nicer to look at , sounds better, is far nicer inside, is much higher quality

THAT is why Tesla doesn’t makes sense. That doesn’t go away because they can update your launch control program (which is what that is).

The RS7 can’t touch the Tesla in 0-85 MPH, which is what you want. It doesn’t do a 3.0x second 0-60. Further the Tesla’s power is easier to put down. Gasoline engines bog and do weird things. Battery packs don’t.

I would buy a hybrid drive Audi. Like a 400 HP 2.0T up front and 200 HP electric motor out back. That would clearly smoke a tesla and weigh a lot less.

[drob23]

West, you’ve never told us how much Tesla stock you own.

[westwest888]

West, you’ve never told us how much Tesla stock you own.

When I work there, probably a lot.

[sakimano]

The RS7 can’t touch the Tesla in 0-85 MPH, which is what you want. It doesn’t do a 3.0x second 0-60. Further the Tesla’s power is easier to put down. Gasoline engines bog and do weird things. Battery packs don’t.

I would buy a hybrid drive Audi. Like a 400 HP 2.0T up front and 200 HP electric motor out back. That would clearly smoke a tesla and weigh a lot less.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

400hp 2.0T? Yeah, that makes sense…very reliable I bet. And sounds really enjoyable too.

As for RS7 vs. P85D they’re virtually identical to 60mph. Motor Trend measured the difference as 4 feet and less than 0.1 seconds. The Rs7 rockets away past 60. And is nicer to look at. Is nicer inside. Sounds amazing. Is better built. Has better long term quality/reliability. Not to mention, with a tune, the RS7 is now covering 60 mph in 2.something seconds, and is bus lengths ahead of the Tesla before the 1/4 mile post.

It’s a silly discussion. You’re overpaying to the tune of about $30,000 for the Tesla. If you buy one, you’re doing so because you don’t know the source of your electricity, or the effects of the production of your car battery on the environment, but telling people you’re making a difference. That makes no sense.

[Axel]

It’s a silly discussion. You’re overpaying to the tune of about $30,000 for the Tesla. If you buy one, you’re doing so because you don’t know the source of your electricity, or the effects of the production of your car battery on the environment, but telling people you’re making a difference. That makes no sense.

Plus you have to replace all the batteries at the 8 year mark at a cost of $10k to $15k depending on the model if you intend to keep the car. And if you don’t, good luck selling an 8 year old Tesla that hasn’t had its batteries replaced without taking a massive hit.

And S4 owners find $5k is a lot of timing chain guides lol

[clochner]

Plus you have to replace all the batteries at the 8 year mark at a cost of $10k to $15k depending on the model if you intend to keep the car. And if you don’t, good luck selling an 8 year old Tesla that hasn’t had its batteries replaced without taking a massive hit.

Wow that’s a pretty significant maintenance item. I wasn’t aware of that. I guess that wouldn’t be so difficult to stomach if the car was relatively low-maintenance up to that point, but I really have no clue what kind of upkeep is necessary on these cars.

[Datadatum]

^ I doubt buyers of new RS7s or Teslas are calculating long-term ownership costs.

(And it will probably be a very small percentage that owns the car past 5 years…)

[primetime]

[quote=“westwest888,post:71,topic:6746”]
Hmmm… Let’s not let facts get in the way shall we? Porsche would never use a variant of that “hack box”, would they?.. You’re such a tool…

http://www.macanforum.com/forum/engine-technical-discussion/21282-origins-pdk-audi-zf-unicorn-tears-etc.html

[sakimano]

[quote=“primetime,post:156,topic:6746”]

Hmmm… Let’s not let facts get in the way shall we? Porsche would never use a variant of that “hack box”, would they?.. You’re such a tool…

http://www.macanforum.com/forum/engine-technical-discussion/21282-origins-pdk-audi-zf-unicorn-tears-etc.html

“We then also developed a dual-clutch gearbox; a derivative of the DL501 Audi gearbox, with completely new software and an entirely new all-wheel system, the Porsche-Hang-On-Allwheelsystem…I see the Porsche changes as an opportunity and a risk at the same time.”

is from Porsche Head of Development Wolfgang Hatz, from Feb 11 2014. It is from a German car manufacturing trade publication, and the original is here
Porsche-Entwicklungsvorstand Wolfgang Hatz: “Einen Vierzylinder werden wir beim Macan sicherlich machen”

[westwest888]

The PDK is a $9000 part. It can do an unbounded number of launch control and the DSG can only do 200 before failure. In this case both the programming and the clutch parts make a big difference. My Boxster PDK can execute shifts 2000 RPM higher than an S4 DSG. It’s simply a better part in every measure, subjective and objective.

Don’t get me wrong, I like the RS7. It’s just a very complicated machine with the cylinder deactivation, and seems to be problematic before you even tune it. Not a great sign. They sell 1500 RS7 a year to 25,000 Tesla Model S.

If your Tesla needs a battery pack in 2022, you’ll be able to get a higher range one for less. I think saving $3000 a year on fuel will make up for it. I wouldn’t buy either of these cars because I don’t want a full size luxury sedan.

[primetime]

The PDK is a $9000 part. It can do an unbounded number of launch control and the DSG can only do 200 before failure. In this case both the programming and the clutch parts make a big difference. My Boxster PDK can execute shifts 2000 RPM higher than an S4 DSG. It’s simply a better part in every measure, subjective and objective.

Don’t get me wrong, I like the RS7. It’s just a very complicated machine with the cylinder deactivation, and seems to be problematic before you even tune it. Not a great sign. They sell 1500 RS7 a year to 25,000 Tesla Model S.

If your Tesla needs a battery pack in 2022, you’ll be able to get a higher range one for less. I think saving $3000 a year on fuel will make up for it. I wouldn’t buy either of these cars because I don’t want a full size luxury sedan.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

You really are a troll… Your “hack box” is supporting what 150WTQ on the coxster? It’s like driving a miata dude…

As for shift rpm’s are you serious… Your comparing shift points on the n/a coxster motor to the s/c 3.0? Really? You’re not that dumb are you? never mind…

[westwest888]

The PDK is a $9000 part. It can do an unbounded number of launch control and the DSG can only do 200 before failure. In this case both the programming and the clutch parts make a big difference. My Boxster PDK can execute shifts 2000 RPM higher than an S4 DSG. It’s simply a better part in every measure, subjective and objective.

Don’t get me wrong, I like the RS7. It’s just a very complicated machine with the cylinder deactivation, and seems to be problematic before you even tune it. Not a great sign. They sell 1500 RS7 a year to 25,000 Tesla Model S.

If your Tesla needs a battery pack in 2022, you’ll be able to get a higher range one for less. I think saving $3000 a year on fuel will make up for it. I wouldn’t buy either of these cars because I don’t want a full size luxury sedan.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

You really are a troll… Your “hack box” is supporting what 150WTQ on the coxster? It’s like driving a miata dude…

As for shift rpm’s are you serious… Your comparing shift points on the n/a coxster motor to the s/c 3.0? Really? You’re not that dumb are you? never mind…

Educate me on why my 6MT S4 can shift at 7400 RPM and why the DSG model fires off shifts at 6200 RPM? The DSG is severely limited in what RPM it can shift at and how many times launch control can be engaged.

I’m not sure what part the Macan has and it wouldn’t surprise me if it was VW derived. I know the Boxster and Boxster S run the same PDK part number. It has lots of unique modes I haven’t observed in any Audi, like it will coast in neutral when you’re on the highway in 7th to save fuel and then engage again when you hover over the gas. PDK has a 12 year fill on fluid. I’ve personally watched it shift at 8200 RPM - it will let you overrev stock. There’s two clicks in at the bottom of the gas pedal that enable instant seamless 7-3 or 6-2 shifts.

If you’re not into electric cars, you’re into classic drag racing. Electric motors don’t care what the density altitude is or the lunar position. They bring a lot of consistency to a sport not known for repeatable performances.