first pic of a blown 3.0TFSI - APR tuned

[sakimano]

Has anyone blown a stock motor? Has anyone blown a REVO motor since camera phones were invented? I don’t even have an anti-APR agenda. I’m just saying REVO Stage 1+ (software and pulley) doesn’t blow motors for sure and never has, and now we have reason to believe APR does.

But yeah it could be pilot sabotage. There might have been a sniper at the top of turn 10 that put an armor piercing round through his motor. Maybe the car was built on a Monday after Oktoberfest (or some other month long holiday) and Frankel forgot to torque the connecting rod to 108 ft/lb. OR MAYBE APR BLEW THE FUCKING MOTOR.

APR likely has tuned the most 3.0T engines and this is the first time we are seeing a blown engine. The guy either misshifted or a stock component was defective and gave out after being run hard. I’m leaning towards the former.

Give it up. Sell the S4 and go buy another PDK chick car because I’m sick of reading this nonsense.

exactly…there were 1000 APR tuned 3.0T cars 2 years ago. Who knows how many now.

Those cars have driven TENS OF MILLIONS OF MILES

the only APR tuned 3.0T cars to blow the motor that we know of are

1. arin’s car, which had a 480 whp supercharger kit on it, in testing
2. this guy who was on a track, where numerous people have blown motors for various reasons (money shift, stress)

If you insist that ‘APR BLEW THE FUCKING MOTOR’ you’re proving that you don’t know how engine calibrations work. Again, every time you open your mouth, you show us all how little you actually know.

[Ynnekdude]

Smart people can infer: don’t take it for 30 minutes of road course abuse unless you buy the CPS. There’s a reason Dinan sells these things as kits for $6k. I know high price tags are a non starter with over half of the VW modding crowd, but they’re cheaper than say a blown engine.

Several people have run APR S2 cars with no CPS on a road course and no blown engine. Drawing such an inference from one outlier in an unknown sample size is fucking stupid.

I’m going to infer that all “racers” suck at shifting because clearly you do and this APR guy likely does as well.

[westwest888]

You actually think the PDK for the Porsche sports cars motors (2.7L, 3.4L, 3.8L) is the same box as the Audi/VW (2.0T, 2.0TFSI, 3.0TFSI) despite sharing zero parts and being sourced from a different manufacturer?

you’re a dummy. Go back and read what I said. What I said was that

1. PDK isn’t a thing…it’s a german short form for Porsche Double Clutch (and encompasses a few different designs from different origins)

2. Porsche uses the Audi system on some models, the very same Audi system you shit on, while universally heaping praise on ‘PDK’ (even though you don’t even know what PDK is)

That’s what I’ve said, and the more you talk, the more you show everyone you haven’t a fucking clue what you’re talking about…and that you can’t even read what people are posting and educate yourself.

You are correct that Porsche didn’t invent a second transmission with towing capacity for the Q5 Macan. That’s why you can get a nice one for $63k with the sports diff, sports exhaust, colors and two tone interior, and a few other essentials. They also didn’t invent a new transmission for their hybrid 3.0TFSI powertrains in the Cayenne and Panamera.

But an S4/A4/Golf doesn’t have the 911/981 transmission as you repeatedly state, citing an article no one can read in German.

[westwest888]

Several people have run APR S2 cars with no CPS on a road course and no blown engine. Drawing such an inference from one outlier in an unknown sample size is fucking stupid.

I’m going to infer that all “racers” suck at shifting because clearly you do and this APR guy likely does as well.

OK, so the theory is you can go from 270 WHP to 350 WHP without changing anything else and if the motor blows it was an act of god, having nothing to do with the additional 30% (!) more power. We can just blame the factory for a defect on a 10 best motor that by all other accounts has been flawless?

[drob23]

Several people have run APR S2 cars with no CPS on a road course and no blown engine. Drawing such an inference from one outlier in an unknown sample size is fucking stupid.

I’m going to infer that all “racers” suck at shifting because clearly you do and this APR guy likely does as well.

OK, so the theory is you can go from 270 WHP to 350 WHP without changing anything else and if the motor blows it was an act of god, having nothing to do with the additional 30% (!) more power. We can just blame the factory for a defect on a 10 best motor that by all other accounts has been flawless?

West, the ECU that determines ignition timing/cam phasing/fueling has closed-loop feedback that will dial the power back if there is heat soak…what about this do you not understand? My car probably was no where near stg 2 power levels after a couple laps.

If you fill a 3.0T with 87 octane, the engine will adapt and run at lower efficiency (power level) to prevent the engine from damaging itself. If you can’t understand this, I find it hard to imagine you ever were trained as an engineer.

[Ynnekdude]

Several people have run APR S2 cars with no CPS on a road course and no blown engine. Drawing such an inference from one outlier in an unknown sample size is fucking stupid.

I’m going to infer that all “racers” suck at shifting because clearly you do and this APR guy likely does as well.

OK, so the theory is you can go from 270 WHP to 350 WHP without changing anything else and if the motor blows it was an act of god, having nothing to do with the additional 30% (!) more power. We can just blame the factory for a defect on a 10 best motor that by all other accounts has been flawless?

Who said it was an act of God? I said the guy probably sucks at shifting, just like you.

[westwest888]

West, the ECU that determines ignition timing/cam phasing/fueling has closed-loop feedback that will dial the power back if there is heat soak…what about this do you not understand? My car probably was no where near stg 2 power levels after a couple laps.

If you fill a 3.0T with 87 octane, the engine will adapt and run at lower efficiency (power level) to prevent the engine from damaging itself. If you can’t understand this, I find it hard to imagine you ever were trained as an engineer.

So APR wrote the first piece of bug free software in the history of software. What’s their address so I can nominate them for the Turing Award?

Or maybe there’s a $25,000 edge case in that software that somebody triggered in Turn 11 at Summit Point.

[Vogz]

West, the ECU that determines ignition timing/cam phasing/fueling has closed-loop feedback that will dial the power back if there is heat soak…what about this do you not understand? My car probably was no where near stg 2 power levels after a couple laps.

If you fill a 3.0T with 87 octane, the engine will adapt and run at lower efficiency (power level) to prevent the engine from damaging itself. If you can’t understand this, I find it hard to imagine you ever were trained as an engineer.

So APR wrote the first piece of bug free software in the history of software. What’s their address so I can nominate them for the Turing Award?

Or maybe there’s a $25,000 edge case in that software that somebody triggered in Turn 11 at Summit Point.

West, you are hopeless. APR modifies the boost and timing targets on the Audi factory ECU. All the factory knock safeguards remain in place. It’s been very clearly documented with tons of data logging that when the 3.0TFSI gets hot the Simos ECU with APR modifications in place pulls timing and boost to quell any slight amount of knock that develops just like it would in a completely stock vehicle.

[Vogz]

CPS’s were developed to help the 3.0TFSI make optimal power more consistently, not to prevent detonation.

[westwest888]

West, you are hopeless. APR modifies the boost and timing targets on the Audi factory ECU. All the factory knock safeguards remain in place. It’s been very clearly documented with tons of data logging that when the 3.0TFSI gets hot the Simos ECU with APR modifications in place pulls timing and boost to quell any slight amount of knock that develops just like it would in a completely stock vehicle.

So should I switch to APR, or stay put just in case they had something to do with the motor blowing?

[PsYkHoTiK]

CPS’s were developed to help the 3.0TFSI make optimal power more consistently, not to prevent detonation.

^^
Exactly.

Heatsoak = power loss

[westwest888]

What are the top 10 reasons that engines blow? Is heat one of them, or not?

Also, how do we know there wasn’t an operator error that one time a revo motor blew and no one got a photo of it or a real story? I just want to understand why we assume this is a shifting problem when allegedly the event did not occur during a shift.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/9/90/Summit_Point_-Shenandoah_Circuit.svg/2000px-Summit_Point-_Shenandoah_Circuit.svg.png

Fortunately I have a photo of my 325i coming out of Turn 11 [Bridge Straight on the map] to illustrate for you all. Apparently this low speed hook blows a 3.0TFSI when running APR Stage 2 and not much else.

http://i62.tinypic.com/2qnwg7m.jpg

[westwest888]

Or if we take the account from the Facebook post:

[quote]Watched this car crap the bed on the track. It was tragic to behold. Came out of turn 10 onto the straight and in a flash just popped into a massive cloud of hissing smoke & steam until safely off the track. Such a bummer.
[/quote]
So that would put him on the main circuit instead of the Shenandoah.

http://summitpoint-raceway.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/10/summit_main.png

Here’s what that looks like, from the westwest888 archives (notice the waving checkered flag):

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tq2xhTSc-jw

[justincredible]

Some good points and questions. But stack the facts.

There have been on 100% stock 3.0tfsi motor failures.

There have been based off only the forums about 20 to 1 apr tunes to say revo tunes
We have only seen or heard of 1 issues with an apr motor going boom on the 3.0. Now the same people saying this APR tuned car blowing the motor has nothing to do with the APR tune are also the same people saying the APR tuned supercharged rs4 was 100% APR’S fault. So I would say nobody is going to say they aren’t critical of APR when needed.

Revo has blown more then 1 RS4 motor on the dyno in the past and at least 1 3.0t motor that called for revo to completely revamp there tuning. The questions about revo and blown motors is from revo s past history. Maybe today revo tuning is different but people are talking about the documented unsafe revo tunes.

As for the CPS not being upgraded. The coolant system won’t keep the car from over heating. That will happen no latter what you do of you drive long and hard enough. The boost cooling system just makes it take longer before you get heat soaked it doesn’t prevent hest soaking.

Just some thoughts.

[Ynnekdude]

Also, in regard to the Revo failures, weren’t logs showing significant cylinder 6 knock on multiple cars?

So far as I’m aware, we have yet to see any APR logs showing those issues.

[justincredible]

Also, in regard to the Revo failures, weren’t logs showing significant cylinder 6 knock on multiple cars?

So far as I’m aware, we have yet to see any APR logs showing those issues.

Yes that’s part of what I was wanting to get across. People have proof that revo pushed the car into unsafe conditions vs what say APR was doing.

If the revo tune was so safe why did they have a massive return that got done.

Anyways one company has a bad history backed up by major failure in more then one platform. That’s revo. APR has recently made some terrible tunes with there new cowboy style tuning that has shown to be very unsafe and untested. This B8 S4 tune isn’t one of those tunes.

[Ynnekdude]

Anyways one company has a bad history backed up by major failure in more then one platform. That’s revo. APR has recently made some terrible tunes with there new cowboy style tuning that has shown to be very unsafe and untested. This B8 S4 tune isn’t one of those tunes.

I take it you’re talking about their massive failure with the tvs1740?

[westwest888]

Normally what would happen is the engine would go into a limp mode before exploding. I don’t think any of these tuned cars have a limp mode, like OEM does.

[drob23]

Normally what would happen is the engine would go into a limp mode before exploding. I don’t think any of these tuned cars have a limp mode, like OEM does.

Huh? You can’t make this stuff up!

[Ynnekdude]

Normally what would happen is the engine would go into a limp mode before exploding. I don’t think any of these tuned cars have a limp mode, like OEM does.

Huh? You can’t make this stuff up!

Pretty sure they remove low oil warning as well.