hello A.R user's... 3L Billet RS6 car from tweets4estates hood///

[Flowtech]

No man, what happened was

1. someone mentioned the shape of piping on the ER intercooler and asked if it was a negative, or just necessary due to space (that was me…i honestly had no idea)
2. someone else posted a link to a ‘test’ that showed certain findings relating to intercoolers
3. someone else still said that this ‘test’ was poorly thought out
4. someone else again agreed and said that for example the apikol/VAST unit was big, and flowed well (two key features mentioned in that ‘test’) but in the real world it performed like shit

Basically guys (flowtech, chrisK) were saying that bigger and great flow does not a great intercooler make. There is much more to it, and that makes sense.

Clear now?

This 4 The Win.

Yes the name inter cooler. Something that while air is IN it cools down as a practice of the parts. Not something that air flows fast through. Chris touched on it.

Having a large pressure drop separates the air. This release of pressure releases heat. The heat however stays in the system. for all conversation you want the low pressure to be the throttle body not the intercooler.

On a Turbo car there isn’t much worry for ideal bends when your air is under such pressure. It going into the turbo that you want to worry about ideal bends. Even in the exhaust is the spot where you worry about bends as there isn’t a ultra low pressure zone.

Exactly…the Apikols. he didn’t say 'Stock Intercoolers are better than Evolution Racewerks and JHM and every other option"

he said 'better than Apikol.

From that, you said "It just sounded like guys were haveing a back and forth about how dumb Adam and s4 owners in general are because they are putting big ic cores on thier cars. "

They never said that. They said the Apikols sucked when you actually tested them. Bigger doesn’t mean fuck all if it works worse than stock.

yes yes yes yes.

[Snow_Trooper]

Cool, thanks for reiterating it again. I get all that. Maybe count vohn can chime in on what he thinks will make a perfect intercooler for Adam to use. Isn’t he tuning his car?

[sakimano]

no idea. I reckon CV will be partial to the JHM FMIC. His allroad has one on it.

[Meow]

We will find out how well the apikols do once Tim’s car is up and running. Really kind of retarded to come in here and bash the community based on persons flow test. I think it is awesome he is helping out the community by showing which intercoolers flow the most. It does not prove which ones are best, but it gives great info on how good they flow. The real proof in intercoolers is the on-car testing. It is hard to test the cooling efficiency of the intercoolers without the proper tools or testing facilities.

[ChrisK]

We will find out how well the apikols do once Tim’s car is up and running. Really kind of retarded to come in here and bash the community based on persons flow test. I think it is awesome he is helping out the community by showing which intercoolers flow the most. It does not prove which ones are best, but it gives great info on how good they flow. The real proof in intercoolers is the on-car testing. It is hard to test the cooling efficiency of the intercoolers without the proper tools or testing facilities.

Meow I th8nk you can still be saved. First off the issue here is that your comfortable making that post. The we will see if this works or not after yet another b5 guy with a blown motor does the work for us. Maybe we can get logs. Fuck8ng really now after 5 years of logs non of tou guys has gotten any faster. For god sakes man you have seen how many logs. So after all those logs thats what has helped you bu8ld your 12.6@115 b5 s4. Wowo let the confetti fly congratulations on being as fast as a ko4 car back in 2003. 9 years later hunter a guy who I would be willing to wager has never seen or even logged his car was almost a full sec9nd and 10 mph faster then you in a car that has every bit of 300lbs more weight. Im not saying all this to make fun of yoh im doing it to make a point.

The point juat like logs and fats times amd graphics on dyno sheets amd spread sheet data. Its all basically pointless. Juat like the foow results from the test oe even the test foe that matter. When you actually know whats going on amd how th8ngs work you look at all the fail3d tests with n9 importance like the one above and you realize how silly and how far off the community is. 8ts not bashing at the results its laughing at those that think it’s helpful in what your looking to achieve

[EYEspI]

no idea. I reckon CV will be partial to the JHM FMIC. His allroad has one on it.

I personally removed my JHM front mount in favor of a set of AWE’s. I found that overall oil and water temps were higher than I liked with the JHM. The AWE’s suited me much better

[sakimano]

no idea. I reckon CV will be partial to the JHM FMIC. His allroad has one on it.

I personally removed my JHM front mount in favor of a set of AWE’s. I found that overall oil and water temps were higher than I liked with the JHM. The AWE’s suited me much better

yeah I have no idea
He works with JHM, so it seemed a safe choice.

[Corbett]

We will find out how well the apikols do once Tim’s car is up and running. Really kind of retarded to come in here and bash the community based on persons flow test. I think it is awesome he is helping out the community by showing which intercoolers flow the most. It does not prove which ones are best, but it gives great info on how good they flow. The real proof in intercoolers is the on-car testing. It is hard to test the cooling efficiency of the intercoolers without the proper tools or testing facilities.

Meow I th8nk you can still be saved. First off the issue here is that your comfortable making that post. The we will see if this works or not after yet another b5 guy with a blown motor does the work for us. Maybe we can get logs. Fuck8ng really now after 5 years of logs non of tou guys has gotten any faster. For god sakes man you have seen how many logs. So after all those logs thats what has helped you bu8ld your 12.6@115 b5 s4. Wowo let the confetti fly congratulations on being as fast as a ko4 car back in 2003. 9 years later hunter a guy who I would be willing to wager has never seen or even logged his car was almost a full sec9nd and 10 mph faster then you in a car that has every bit of 300lbs more weight. Im not saying all this to make fun of yoh im doing it to make a point.

The point juat like logs and fats times amd graphics on dyno sheets amd spread sheet data. Its all basically pointless. Juat like the foow results from the test oe even the test foe that matter. When you actually know whats going on amd how th8ngs work you look at all the fail3d tests with n9 importance like the one above and you realize how silly and how far off the community is. 8ts not bashing at the results its laughing at those that think it’s helpful in what your looking to achieve

Please fix your keyboard. Its really hurting to read through this garbage.

[EYEspI]

no idea. I reckon CV will be partial to the JHM FMIC. His allroad has one on it.

I personally removed my JHM front mount in favor of a set of AWE’s. I found that overall oil and water temps were higher than I liked with the JHM. The AWE’s suited me much better

yeah I have no idea
He works with JHM, so it seemed a safe choice.

I am not saying it is a bad choice, just that I found the AWE sidemounts do the trick for me, especially if I find myself stuck in traffic

[8URV8]

Wow, that was an angry post.

The background to the flow testing was that some of the top end IC’s were having difficulty achieving 40psi at the IM, it was deduced that some IC’s flow better than others, the independent member setup and performed these tests on his own.

We are all very aware that the best IC is not the one which flows the most or the one that reduces charge air temp the most, but the one that is a balance of the 2 of them.

Note that most people following along with the IC testing are also utilizing w/m in their builds, thus further reducing the need for some of the IC cooling.

The B5 S4 community is not going backwards, many of us are just watching the freak show like the rest of you

Angry because it is a freak show and the platform is moving backwards. The only real advancement in the past 4 years was a VR6 motor car.

A simple understanding of how a turbo system works would tell you that the restriction is in the throttle body and not the IC. Even look to the not too much higher in hp RS4. Its not hard to do the math and calculate the area to find the end result that points to the throttle body like a big red dot.

This furthers my rant on just how stupid the B5 community is getting. No home work or thought into how stuff works just a bunch of wasted tests on empty conclusions.

Thats why i have a ported RS4 TB and intake manifold B5 guys skip out on heads intake manifolds and TB and cams which are key to making Big HP i just dont fucking get it!

[8URV8]

Cool, thanks for reiterating it again. I get all that. Maybe count vohn can chime in on what he thinks will make a perfect intercooler for Adam to use. Isn’t he tuning his car?

Man I dont even know whos tuning my car lol… The perfect intercooler is the one that is on there it will work at 32psi on my billet RS6’s.

[Flowtech]

Thats why i have a ported RS4 TB and intake manifold B5 guys skip out on heads intake manifolds and TB and cams which are key to making Big HP i just dont fucking get it!

One more guy to the list of people who get it.

I can’t speak of every front mount. Still its hard for the side mount units to cover the area a front mount can. As put you have to think about its location. Moving the oil cooler unit might be a good idea. The coolant temps shouldn’t change that wouldn’t make any sense. Thats why you have a thermostat water pump and low speed fans. If the coolant temps went up the thermostat would just stay open longer at full spring hold. Even at low speeds the low speed fans should kick on. This isn’t to say there could never be an issue. It has worked very well for the terminator mustang guys with no issues.

[Meow]

Thats why i have a ported RS4 TB and intake manifold B5 guys skip out on heads intake manifolds and TB and cams which are key to making Big HP i just dont fucking get it!

One more guy to the list of people who get it.

Ive said in many threads on audizine the intake manifold, throttle body, heads and cams are really a restriction on these cars. Hopefully I will have a line on custom intake manifold soon and 2.8 heads and cams

also to the above posts, you can bash all you want, but both you and I know logging is important. Logging will not make my car any faster if I don’t change the tune, so I am set with my 12.6 car the way it is, very safe for my bottom end… for now

lol.

[Flowtech]

Thats why i have a ported RS4 TB and intake manifold B5 guys skip out on heads intake manifolds and TB and cams which are key to making Big HP i just dont fucking get it!

One more guy to the list of people who get it.

Ive said in many threads on audizine the intake manifold, throttle body, heads and cams are really a restriction on these cars. Hopefully I will have a line on custom intake manifold soon and 2.8 heads and cams

also to the above posts, you can bash all you want, but both you and I know logging is important. Logging will not make my car any faster if I don’t change the tune, so I am set with my 12.6 car the way it is, very safe for my bottom end… for now

lol.

Im assuming this part isn’t directed at me. Still The logging you (not you directly) do is in some sorts the same as the wasted test of the flowing of the inter cooler units. Collecting data is only important if you collect the proper data and you know what to do with it. While I don’t delve too deep in the B5 game its apparent there isn’t a lack of data but there is a lack of what to do with it. Also the B5 has become the SRT4 neon of the performance market. Where people make parts and make even bigger fabrications of there data so they don’t look like a fool for getting or making part A or B.

As A tip. Don’t take logs from someone else car too serious. As old as the B5 is there are too many variables in if its good data or not. The one log that will never lie is the 1/4mile. Its the truth teller and in most cases heart breaker.

[Meow]

We will find out how well the apikols do once Tim’s car is up and running. Really kind of retarded to come in here and bash the community based on persons flow test. I think it is awesome he is helping out the community by showing which intercoolers flow the most. It does not prove which ones are best, but it gives great info on how good they flow. The real proof in intercoolers is the on-car testing. It is hard to test the cooling efficiency of the intercoolers without the proper tools or testing facilities.

Meow I th8nk you can still be saved. First off the issue here is that your comfortable making that post. The we will see if this works or not after yet another b5 guy with a blown motor does the work for us. Maybe we can get logs. Fuck8ng really now after 5 years of logs non of tou guys has gotten any faster. For god sakes man you have seen how many logs. So after all those logs thats what has helped you bu8ld your 12.6@115 b5 s4. Wowo let the confetti fly congratulations on being as fast as a ko4 car back in 2003. 9 years later hunter a guy who I would be willing to wager has never seen or even logged his car was almost a full sec9nd and 10 mph faster then you in a car that has every bit of 300lbs more weight. Im not saying all this to make fun of yoh im doing it to make a point.

The point juat like logs and fats times amd graphics on dyno sheets amd spread sheet data. Its all basically pointless.

lol, this is so painful to read. Trolololol

Collecting data is only important if you collect the proper data and you know what to do with it.

I think this is just flat out wrong.

About me and my car:

• I am a mechanical engineer who will be working for BorgWarner coming this fall.
• My build is a basic cookie cutter rs6 setup from VAST.
• Its middle of the field quick, and I am an awful driver. (115mph should be more than a 12.6…)
• My car is a daily driver, I put about 20-30 miles on it a day, and I romp on it frequently on the highway.
• I try to always check my peak boost from my zeitronix gauge after pulls and try to log as much as possible when I have the time.
• I have only had about 5 log sessions in the past couple months.

Now, no need for personal attacks, we both know my time and setup, because I share information freely and openly.

About Logging:

• There is no such thing as wasted data.
• I don’t log for performance, I log for data.
• You can NEVER have enough data of your own car.
• Each car is different so just because there are other logs out there does not mean I am going to trust them.
• I would log my car every day if I could.

Bottom line is:

• You can go about doing your thing and not logging a car and only looking at 1/4 mile times, but please don’t bash people just because they are trying to collect information.
• I love taking my car to the drag strip and seeing what improvements my driving skill.

I am just here to enjoy the community, provide knowledge when I can, input when I can, and get feedback from those who have more knowledge (in technical depth).

The quest for knowledge and information is what sets us apart from primitive animals.

[Meow]

Note that the bove is supposed to be taken lightly and with a sense of humor. Most of my humor only seems to make Tim and the albanians laugh. lol.

Anyway, Is this damn 3.0l rs6 hybrid car running yet? (back on track) cause it better be… I want to come race it later this week just to get embarrassed.

[ChrisK]

Wait wait wait. You never responded to what I posted other then to justify what I wrote.

no one cares what you do for a living its irrevelent.
the car I compaired you to is a cookie cutter car
your car is middle of what pack?
the car I compaied you to is avery day driver.
who cares if you check boost ok good for you.

The issue is you really believe what your posting.

There is such thing as wasted data. Go log the flow rate of a intercooler. that is a good exqample
if you don’t log for performance what do you and others keep asking for the “data for”
I don’t know that you need to keep a constant nanny on your car

bottom, line no one is bashing you for getting data. The fact of the matter is most kids like you don’t know why the data they have is usless. With the tons of logs and questions for logs where has that helped grow the B5 comunity. It hasn’t there are more intercooler test and more third gear logs that have done nothing to advance the platform.

I dispelled the myth that logs do anything to help advance the B5 platform at this point. OH OH OH let me see your Fats times ohoh let me see your boost gragh. If it was as simple as logs and graphs you guys would be in the single diggit 1/4 mile times.

To me it seems the people that follow the formula do well… and the people tht follow the hype and “logs” seem to be sucking or never running.

[justincredible]

Meow he will tell you to log and he will be more then happy to tell you your tune should be more aggressive call your tuner tell them to push the car harder and tell them that the Internets are pissed that the tune isn’t internet approved.

come on guys its all about the logs. Didn’t you know. Things haven’t changed in the past 3 years

ITS ALL ABOUT THE LOGS
http://www.xtranormal.com/watch/7711925/b5-fail-finnal-cut

I scrapped this one out of the old laugh bin. Seems nothing changes. lots of slow arm chair quarter backs get your logs guys.

[sakimano]

Thats why i have a ported RS4 TB and intake manifold B5 guys skip out on heads intake manifolds and TB and cams which are key to making Big HP i just dont fucking get it!

really? You don’t get it???

http://www.audizine.com/forum/showthread.php/367122-Age-poll

55% of the forum is in high school or college!

Half of the cars that are ‘axe murdering stage 3 supoerstars’ are running stock intercoolers or fuelling or even tuning (check this ad out. RS6r turbo’d B5 S4 with STOCK intercoolers, STOCK fuelling and GIAC stage 1 tune lol) http://www.tneuros.com/forums/index.php?topic=15947.msg181836#new

Kids who don’t upgrade the basics are not getting into headwork.

Then you get the all knowing superstars like Meow who is looking to get his first real job as an adult after running 12.6 @ 114 in his RS6 turbo’d supercar (lol), and giving tuning advice to JHM, telling them they don’t know what they’re doing. These are the guys who are advising the ‘community’. No fucking wonder they miss the important stuff. He’s rrunning an old ass VAST tune, dabling on n.e.f. to look smart, and running times like a K03 car. This is where the b5 world sits today. Embracing mediocrity.

[euroswagr]

I hope this thing can eat V8s on the strip…otherwise I will be severely disappointed.