It just doesn't work: Tesla

General Discussion
#681

[quote=“bigserve134,post:680,topic:7706”]
Yep - amazing how much space the engine, cooling system and fuel tank of an ICE-powered vehicle take up. When they’re gone, there’s lots of extra space for people and cargo.

[quote=“bigserve134,post:680,topic:7706”]
Yep, and the Model 3 does 0-60 in 3.1-3.3 seconds, depending on which test you read. Trust me, the S6 would have NO chance against the Model 3 up to at least 110 mph. Also, in their “street start” rolling 5-60 mph test, the S6 manages 4.8 seconds, while the Model 3 does 3.7. No contest.

[quote=“bigserve134,post:680,topic:7706”]
Since I drove one for 3 years, I don’t find it that hard to believe. By the time the transmission downshifts, the turbos spool and the power really comes on, the Tesla would be WAY ahead.

[quote=“bigserve134,post:680,topic:7706”]
Umm, no, and that’s not what C&D said - they said the P3D is quicker from 30-70, and I don’t doubt that at all.

I’m guessing you haven’t actually driven a Tesla. Go drive one and then comment.

My Model 3P isn’t a perfect vehicle by any stretch of the imagination, but it’s damn impressive nonetheless. That’s why I traded my S6 on one!

#682

[quote=“zcd1,post:681,topic:7706”]

[quote=“bigserve134,post:680,topic:7706”]
Yep - amazing how much space the engine, cooling system and fuel tank of an ICE-powered vehicle take up. When they’re gone, there’s lots of extra space for people and cargo.

[quote=“bigserve134,post:680,topic:7706”]
Yep, and the Model 3 does 0-60 in 3.1-3.3 seconds, depending on which test you read. Trust me, the S6 would have NO chance against the Model 3 up to at least 110 mph. Also, in their “street start” rolling 5-60 mph test, the S6 manages 4.8 seconds, while the Model 3 does 3.7. No contest.

[quote=“bigserve134,post:680,topic:7706”]
Since I drove one for 3 years, I don’t find it that hard to believe. By the time the transmission downshifts, the turbos spool and the power really comes on, the Tesla would be WAY ahead.

Nope. I have never driven a Tesla, but not interested…yet especially with my real world results. I’ve driven the RS7, which had no turbo lag (bigger turbos than S6/7) or gas pedal delay. Not sure why the S6 was so slow to downshift and turbo spool. My SQ5 is bone stock and only has that annoying delay when in comfort mode, but dynamic fixes 80% of it.

So why have I beat these P90-100D Tesla’s from a dig? Can you comment on how much performance is lost when its on 50% charge? 25% charge? 75%charge? Or if ludicrous mode wasn’t toggled? no launch? But in every situation when we both took out it was legit from both sides with me winning more often than not. There were 2 times a P85D and P90D smoked me by 1-1.5 car lengths after I even got a good launch. Why so much variance? Of course there have been many times when the tesla didn’t take off and vice versa tesla takes off and im chillin.

#683

With all due respect, I’m going to hold off on further discussions with you about the relative performance of Teslas vs. ICE vehicles until you’ve actually driven one. You simply can’t understand the difference until you’ve experienced it for yourself.

With 100% torque available at ANY rpm, including from a dead stop, and no shifting taking place in their transmissions, electric vehicles are incredibly more responsive than any ICE vehicle…period.

SOC (state of charge) has a relatively small effect on performance until the battery is down below about 25%.

The original SQ5 had a supercharged V6, same as the motor in my previous S4, and yes, it’s extremely responsive, particularly compared to the twin-turbo V8s in the S6/S7/RS7, but still not close to the way the Tesla’s motor(s) respond. All of the V8TT C7 models have noticeable turbo lag, with the bigger-turbo versions obviously having the most lag.

#684

I find it hilarious :smiley: how offended most Tesla owner’s get when questioned, or if you’re not agreeable.

Would you drive a car that you beat more often than not with huge variance in results that looks half as good as what you currently drive? I’m talking REAL WORLD results, not objective biased data. Tesla overestimates their performance numbers, which I’m sure will change once they get their class action lawsuit. Merc/Audi/BMW all underestimate.

The RS7 I drove with bigger turbo’s than S6 didn’t have noticeable turbo lag.

Tesla has a ways to go, but I think they are on the right track and will get there eventually. A battery covered in a shell equipped with a giant iPad doesn’t appeal to me.

#685

LOL - not sure why you think I’m offended.

After all, I’m the one who has driven all the cars you’ve referenced, from stock and modified B8 to stock and modified C7 to Teslas, both “S” and “Model 3.” You haven’t, so you have no frame of reference to even have this discussion. That’s why there’s no point in discussing this with you - it’s not because I’m offended, it’s that you can’t accurately comment because you haven’t actually experienced.

The best way to try to explain the difference though is that the Tesla responds AT ANY SPEED up to about 80 mph with the same ferocity that your modified B8 responds when it’s at 3500 RPM in second gear.

#686

Well the way I read your last post it seemed you were offended , and feel that I’m really ignorant.

Sure, in ideal conditions when everything is charged and toggled Tesla can perform.

What I’m saying is real world results based on my experiences say otherwise. And no one can explain it???

#687

I wasn’t offended.

There are SO many possible reasons for the things you say you’ve experienced that I really didn’t think it was worth commenting.

My Model 3 P requires no toggling and no preparation to unleash its best performance. It will run 11.6-11.8 @ 116-118 mph every time. There’s no “Launch” or “Ludicrous” mode - just mash and go. But as I previously mentioned, it’s the passing performance, 20-80 or 30-70 or whatever that is truly astonishing.

The Model S was offered in MANY configurations, with performance all over the map. The fastest (P100D) will run mid 10s @ 125 mph in Ludicrous mode. Without Ludicrous, that would probably drop to high 11s.

A P85D with Ludicrous will run mid-11s. A “normal” 85 more like 13s.

The slowest (Model 60) might do a high 14-second 1/4 mile.

Hope this helps.

#688

Not really, because my car could only do a 0-60 ~3.7sec and high 11s quarter mile :-\

#689

Had a good go against a P100D yesterday, both reacting same time to the light…i got shit on to ~60mpg by a car length

#690

With no Ludicrous mode engaged (and he’d likely have known he wouldn’t need that mode to outrun you) that sounds about right.

#691

agreed

#692

Funny how I got into an argument about Telsa on Twitter, and ACTUALLY got proven wrong since they finally got their production levels up to par in Q3 '18. Seems like they’re on the right track, however I can’t see myself driving a fully electric car. You may be able to beat me, but where’s the thrill in driving? Any exotic exhaust note? Crazy cold starts? The 0-60s “rolling” start times are a joke, but clever advertising from a company that was struggling at the time. They will make their mark in the auto industry, yet I’m certain they won’t grasp as big of a market as investors once thought.

Put it anyway you’d want, I’d prefer to drive my V10 S6. Telsa has some cool technology, but how much of that is proprietary to Tesla?

Could the P100 Telsa beat the R8 V10+? Can’t claim victory unless you’re beating out the best.

But I’ll tell you one thing… inserts bias Audi E-tron > Telsa and the edge is experience and company management. Musk is over ambitious, not center focused and that’s what’s hurting the brand.

#693

In order:

  • Tesla never quoted or advertised the rolling acceleration figures - those were from Car and Driver and are absolutely accurate, confirmed by several owners.

  • Much of Tesla’s technology is open and available to anyone who’s interested enough to look. One of the company’s stated goals is a general move towards renewable energy resources, hence their openness.

  • Could a Tesla P100D beat an Audi R8 V10+? In a 1/4 mile race, yes. To 150mph - no.

  • The E-Tron will get here eventually, as will the Taycan, however:
    https://insideevs.com/porsche-audi-tesla-model-3-teardown/

The least expensive E-Tron is $10K more than the most expensive Tesla Model 3, yet has 25% less range. It’s also an SUV, so it’s not something I’d have been interested in.

As far as driving excitement/pleasure, my Model 3 is more fun to drive than any car I’ve owned in 40 years of driving. YMMV.

#694

I still say with current technology hybrid is king; imagine Audi’s straight 5 from the TT-RS / RS3 combined with 60kwh electric ;D

I was excited for the new Roadster, but severely disappointed when it was announced. Epic fail from Tesla. Maybe someone will make a proper affordable hybrid coupe once day, unlikely, but I can hope. SUVs are king, cash cow as that’s what everyone buys. Ford just added an option addition to turn the F-150 bed into a “fastback” looking SUV.

I still say Tesla killed it on their model S in term of aesthetics, acceleration, reliability has greatly improved compared to the first 3 years. But they are not holding their value well, 2013 P85D $36,000. 140k P90D can be had for less than 55k! Depreciation worse than huge BMW , and Mercedes sedans

#695

Interesting. Where did you get that information?

Data from Autolist.com shows that Tesla’s depreciation is best (highest retained value) in class:

https://insideevs.com/tesla-model-s-x-resale-value-high/

#696

Can’t REALLY start comparing the two vehicles just yet until the release. When referencing the Audi E-Tron, I was also referring to the GT (coupe). :slight_smile: No doubt, I’d expect the price point to be higher than Tesla’s but maybe, like Telsa, we’ll see that price point meet somewhere in the middle to capture more of the market.

Also, the 0-60 numbers were stated by Musk himself but I digress. :stuck_out_tongue:

#697

https://www.cargurus.com/Cars/l-Used-Tesla-Model-S-d2039#listing=229185954
https://www.cargurus.com/Cars/l-Used-Tesla-Model-S-d2039#listing=231749845
https://www.cargurus.com/Cars/l-Used-Tesla-Model-S-d2039#listing=230580660
https://www.cargurus.com/Cars/l-Used-Tesla-Model-S-d2039#listing=226198143

#698

The E-Tron GT MAY arrive in the US in 2020, and will be more of a Model S competitor than a Model 3 competitor from the size and projected price. It’s likely to be out of my price range, but if not, whenever I tire of the Model 3 I may take a look.

The Model 3 Performance’s 0-60 time is quoted as 3.3 seconds on Tesla’s website. Motor Trend measured 3.2 (0-60, not 5-60 or “rolling start”), and various owners have also measured 3.2 and even some 3.1s.

It’s true that Tesla’s website initially claimed 3.5, but it was later updated to reflect 3rd party (like Motor Trend, Road and Track and some customers) results.

#699

A few examples of high-mileage vehicles or even cars with accident damage doesn’t disprove Autolist.com’s data, nor prove your contention that the Model S depreciates more than its $100K+ luxury vehicle competition.

The truth is that pretty much every $100K+ luxury vehicle depreciates at an alarming rate. The Tesla’s rate of depreciation is slightly less alarming than most, it appears…

#700

What about the other 70 Tesla P90Ds listed between 60-75k??? Car is not holding its value well at all. The face lifted new 150k P100Ds are down to under 100k