I wouldn’t argue with your boldface point, but that doesn’t mean it’s a disaster. Working on prototype anything isn’t simple and certain road blocks come up. I get your (and others) point of view on these guys, but personally, I wouldn’t say this was a disaster until they officially move on. Having them waste more money and time on this is no skin off my back, people who are dumb enough to buy their products/software because they are PUSHING THE PLATFORM LIMITS…well they are dumb anyways so who cares.
You got me it was and is a hard point on my part to make. He obviously is being laughed at due to the people he surrounds himself with
They do seem to be fairly odd about going or not going to the 1/4.
Companies are always odd about the 1/4 mile when their shit doesn’t work. There’s a list as long as your arm of companies who have done this. They do it one of 3 ways:
1/ the quarter mile has too many variables…the quartermile is too hard…the quartermile doesn’t show how the car would do in a highway pull
All of this is ridiculous. If you are not a retard and can drive reasonably, we will see what your car can do. If you are a performance car shop, SOMEONE there should be able to drive, so there goes that excuse. And the last one is a joke because you run from 0-130 mph at the strip with a fast car…not sure what they’re referring to.
2/ ‘we are going to go’…‘just busy right now’…‘there aren’t any tracks near us’…‘none of us are 1/4 mile experts’
These are just excuses to make people think they will go when they won’t
3/ ‘we don’t tune for the 1/4 mile’
This one is just asinine. Basically they’re saying they only tune for single gear, in gear dyno pulls…in other words their cars aren’t fast in real world driving, they’re not very good tuners…and they know it.
I think in the case of this Jfonz B8 S4 tuning, all development, testing and “beta” stuff is being done on customer cars. So they don’t have a shop car to do this with (unless I’m mistaken, could be a different situation btwn the B8 and B8.5, don’t know). There is the “twin-charged” car, but who knows what’s the deal with that one.
But in practical terms they’d rather go with the “OMG SO FAST” butt dyno feedback from their customers…than have the customer go with them to the 1/4 mile strip and crush their expectations.
In simple terms, 1/4 mile performance only helps the companies who are selling to customers that actually care about their cars relative performance. It would appear from all the love in these threads that people are more interested in dyno pulls and bragging about how much HP they got for $1200.
If people are willing to buy the tune on this premise, then good for them I guess. The weird thing about their threads is how many random people show up to praise them, or new guys who I’ve never seen seriously consider it. And these guys only have one shop, so this is pretty much an ATL only solution…since the days of yanking your ECM and mailing it seem to be over with on this platform.
well they keep saying they’re 30 whp better than APR. That will mean a comfortable 2.5-3 mph of trap speed, so a 121-22 MPH tvsr1320 B8 S4 should be just around the corner…right?
I like to say I think jfonz is ok. I think solo seems to be solid guys from what I have seen.
What’s not solid are the idiots that surround him. That twin-charged disaster is from this idiot that has been part of bringing drama to jfonz. But when you wonder who these random people are that praise jfonz there b5 guys. Completely irrelevant pointless b5 guys. The same bunch of guys who are bringing down the B5 community are jumping in to post for the nothing results in the B8.
Your not going to get track results from these guys until they really have something and to me all these excuses shows they don’t. The B8 S4 guys are much smarter and much more demanding then the B5 guys. The B8 guys aren’t impressed by weak fake dyno results. The B8 guys see way past that. If the results n these guys had was so great what did the twin charged disaster do before it got hacked up. Seriously where are those stage 1 and 2 results. They sold a pulley right. So where are those results. With no results you would have to think there results sucked and why spend all this time posting dyno stuff and no actual results. Well it’s again because they probably suck. Now that they said they made so much more it’s time to back it up and they can’t back up the dyno bullshit so they just make excuses. The B8 S4 guys are the biggest track guys out of all the S4s. For any company to not know that and to not test and prove there just said they don’t get it. So clearly you don’t get actual b8 guys praising them. It’s b5 guys who’s 13 second 500whp b5 s4 is why b5 guys don’t go to the track. They say oh I made 500whp so I have a 10 second car.
Solo and jfonz can be a great combo. They both need to leave behind the trolls and get away from the B5 stuff that the B8 guys don’t like. They need to get to the track prove what they say on the dyno is true. But I don’t see that happening so what you will see is more b5 guys jumping into the B8 threads telling the B8 guys how it is. The bad part for the b5 guys is the B8 guys are smarter and faster then they are so the old typical b5 guys jumping in to say how great something is won’t work
Justin, you kind of contradict yourself with that outlook. If they (Jfonz and SOLO) choose to surround themselves with those individuals they aren’t any better IMHO. You can give him a legit name or shop all you want, but he is the same guy and that will never change. He isn’t going to suddenly develop business morals or honesty.
They are also choosing to sell tunes with dyno number garbage, the one thing that we hate and one major problem that completely ruins platforms.
It doesn’t matter if the kid has even been a little bit successful tuning B5s in the past, he is a tuner that developed from a website that steals from true professionals. He wasn’t against “learning” from other people’s work in the past and I’m sure nothing has changed. In my eyes he is just a mediocre tuner that will bounce around from place to place for the rest of his life. He will never be part of anything successful because nothing about his past or present is legitimate. He is nothing but a pretender.
Just curious why you’re calling this a disaster? Has the project been scrapped? I was under the impression they were at some point going to release something of sorts. Whether it’s an actual turbo system, I’m not sure, but infinkc seemed to hint some kind of modification to the cooling pre-blower.
Is kind of weird how they just release dyno videos and have people “take rides” at SEMA.
What part of it wasn’t a disaster? The car probably barely runs.
In reality the thought of the setup is fucking stupid. It’s just a talking point or a setup that people just think is SO COOL.
I wouldn’t argue with your boldface point, but that doesn’t mean it’s a disaster. Working on prototype anything isn’t simple and certain road blocks come up. I get your (and others) point of view on these guys, but personally, I wouldn’t say this was a disaster until they officially move on. Having them waste more money and time on this is no skin off my back, people who are dumb enough to buy their products/software because they are PUSHING THE PLATFORM LIMITS…well they are dumb anyways so who cares.
You got me it was and is a hard point on my part to make. He obviously is being laughed at due to the people he surrounds himself with
Who would have guessed!
[QUOTE=SoloMotorsports;10527244]We got to the point we were pegging out the factory ecu on load with a larger turbo. We were testing with a few workarounds and SRM decided that with the amount of money they had into the car and the power level it will achieve it just made sense to go standalone.
We had achieved about 600whp with meth injection on built motor with the factory ecu but with no good 1/4 mile runs or finished product to show for it we haven’t really been publicizing it.
SRM has vbox 60-130’s in the mid 8’s with the car.
I know many of you want a 500whp version but after all the testing we did I’m concerned about engine longevity on a stock motor.
There really isn’t a cheap fix to get a healthy 500whp that will last or we would have gone that route.
With the price of the twingcharged kit and motor work needed you would end up spending about $20k.
Bottom line is We made a really fast car but It’s just not a mass producible product.
[/quote]
^^ classic. Literally everyone on here has been predicting that from the beginning. Lulz @ the “we made a fast [albeit unsellable] product.”
If 12.2 is fast I can’t wait to see what his latest tuning on the stock blower will do? That is if we ever see anything other than pretty dyno charts… Maybe they’ll be called something else then…
We knew it was shit when they buried the quarter mile runs and barely trapped anything impressive…while running shitty ET. Standard ghetto build stuff. Then the built motor stuff was a joke, as we knew it would be. Now they admit it.
Great point about them calling it fast. The 3 data points we have are
- dyno at 600 whp - a 600 whp car would trap about 135 mph. This car trapped like a 400 whp car.
- 1/4 mile 12.2 @ 118…that’s a good trap with NO TURBO…and that’s a decent trap for pump gas NO TURBO. Otherwise, that’s garbage
- 60-130 mph time of 8.something seconds. Last time I checked this too is not impressive. Auditude with NO TURBO went 9.6 seconds, uphill. And we’ve vetted the result and know it to be true. The solo guys showed nothing…and are only 3/4 of a second faster with supposedly 200 whp more. Give me a fucking break.
p.s. where’d drob go again? Does this yet qualify as a disaster? I think the problem is if you are prototyping and developing stuff, make sure it works before you show it to anyone. You don’t see boeing posting their prototype work (that gets canned) on public spaces. It makes you look like a failure.
oh…and if anyone is keeping score anymore, it looks like the B8 S4’s TVSr1320 is pretty much perfect for the engine strength
much bigger, and you are killing motors.
Solo killed motors with the turbo in line at ‘600 whp’ (lol)
APR killed motors with the 1740 at 475 whp
So it looks like the car likes being at 400-425 whp, which means you can pretty much max it out with the 1320.
I wonder if any of the actual truth will leak out. Not that it matters much as the predictable result is in, but it would be worth a chuckle.
I was curious if they would cop to the fact that they likely never figured out how to keep IATs manageable and likely never figure out how to tune it properly (and if it blew up a second time).
I’m not sure it’s a HP/boost pressure thing so much as an IAT thing. I’m interested if anyone knows of another TVS or root-style SC’d OEM engine that blows north of 15psi through tiny intercoolers on pump gas like the 3.0T has. I can’t think of one currently.
My 2c after studying the SC discharge temps from the published Eaton performance maps for the R1320 is that it’s going to be upwards 300’F on a stage 2 boost level in 80’F outside temps (16psi post-IC, ~17.5 pre-IC) and the in-SC heat exchangers are just too small overall to handle that amount of heat. Every 3.0T log I’ve seen in summer weather, including my own, shows this as IAT’s climb significantly throughout a 1/4mi run.
Adding a larger TVS SC and similar heat exchanger packaging inside the SC like APR did just bought a few % of efficiency which did next to nothing for IAT at the same boost levels though boost could be raised net higher. The end result clearly wasn’t good as I assume most of APR’s testing was on pump gas.
Solo’s ill-advised attempt at twin-charging was likely even worse as from the pictures they supplied they had no IC between the turbo and SC which would have made the SC discharge astronomically high- well north of 300’F at peak boost. This is because discharge temp of the setup is by design a product of both the turbo and SC’s adiabatic efficiency. It was never going to work on pump gas at higher than st2 boost levels.
wtf does this have to do with me, sorry?
edit - I see now where I was in this. Answer: yes, definitely a disaster if that’s where they leave it. The tone of his post makes it sound like they’re done and don’t plan to do anymore testing. Which means the car/motor/whatever is probably shot.
Because wtf would you spend all that time/money to literally get nothing more out of it then a thread on AZ. Do they really think people are going to buy Stg 2 SRM software because of this? At least with APR’s race program, they could say “we run the off the shelf tunes/hardware on these race cars in the Pirelli WC”. Which at least sounds like a profit stream, despite how bad the overall business case turned out to be.