I don’t think I blew the knock sensor by tampering with it and. Ever heard that knock sensors get stressed out with a tune.
If I drop a rod out the block while racing than its a different situation
I understand that dealers are likely to raise an issue on a tuned car if serious repair work is required. I’m talking about repairs for damage that could not reasonably have been caused by a tune. It seems that there are some dealers who will refuse to do warranty work on a car that has been modded in any fashion (and now will cite the TD1 bulletin for support). Others, however (like my dealer), don’t seem to care as much and are willing to do the work despite the mods.
Clochner, while you maybe haven’t seen any warranty work denied, you haven’t seen any warranty work approved either. Don’t forget this is 3 weeks old…and the cars are pretty new. Not much going wrong.
Anyway, wasn’t that hokeyS4 guy flat out denied ANY trans update etc. due to TD1?
All TD1 has changed is that the ‘mod-friendly’ dealers…a.k.a. the dealers who would de-fraud Audi on behalf of customers…are out of the de-frauding business as it pertains to tuned cars. I reckon the Audi de-frauding dealers will still look the other way on stuff like the short-shifters/exhaust etc. If you have a tune, they can no longer lie as the computer is telling Audi the truth.
p.s. we discussed this farther back, but it looks like Audi is asking for a car to be scanned for ANYTHING now, or they won’t reimburse. Someone had a brake fix done and Audi wanted the scan done or they wouldn’t pay the dealer.
I forget exactly how the hokey situation turned out. But IIRC, I believe he went to a separate dealer and had better luck getting the work done. Again, not positive on this.
I suspect you’re right that all dealers are probably going to be more vigilant when it comes to warranty work with a tuned car (and as you point out, it seems like all cars are getting scanned now). Whether that will lead to outright denials of all warranty work (even if not remotely connected to an ECU tune - e.g., my satellite radio receiver was defective and had to be replaced last year) remains to be seen.
In the end, I guess I don’t worry about it too much. Going on two years now with my car and only have 7600 miles on it. So my warranty is likely to expire long before I will probably need any significant work done to the car.
his car is currently at another dealer i believe
That’s not true.
TD1 is at least a year old with Audi and there’s been a few people on Audizine with software who have had warranty work. Leaky diff, Replaced Injectors for misfire issues, clutch master cylinder, and a few more if you really go back and look.
I think people freaked out when that knucklehead on Audizine said his warranty was void because of APR software, but in the end he still had all his work done at a different dealership. That to me says to chose the right dealership before modding, NOT avoid modding altogether.
[quote=""]
According to my dealer TD1 is reversible as long as the offending product is removed and the car is inspected to have no prior or residual damage.
You know what’s strange (and I haven’t mentioned this 'til now) . . . My car had all 6 fuel injectors replaced in January due to cylinder misfires. The dealer that serviced my car (not my regular dealer) knew that I was tuned and went over all of the paperwork that they filled out in diagnosing the problem (they had the car for over a month). While they were showing me all of the documentation, I swear I remember seeing TD1 in the warranty box on the service rep’s computer screen as he was pointing out all of the work they did. He also told me that in the future I could have problems getting work like this done under warranty b/c Audi now knows that my car is tuned.
If my recollection is accurate, that adds support to your claim that TD1 is not necessarily a new thing for Audi.
And that sir, is how TD1 was designed to work.
Misfires = known issue
Replacing Injectors = common remedy
Both = standard “cause and effect” regardless of OEM or Aftermarket tuning.
Your dealer performed the work, Audi approved the warranty claim, and you were notified that in the event of future claims that could reasonably be linked to aftermarket performance modifications may not be covered.
Again, standard protocol for Audi with or without the automated TD1 flagging, and what us as consumers should be privy to when electing to mod our cars.
TD1 = Business as usual for Audi and the consumer, with no more of the “stock mode” deception that we all became accustomed to and have taken for granted.
The problem is, it doesn’t always work that way. I am having issues getting a transmission hiccup fixed because they are hiding behind the TD1 flag. Once they determined there wasn’t a software update available, they essentially told me they couldn’t look at it anymore as my warranty was voided.
Below is the actual text from my service record:
LABOR & PARTS----------------------------------------------------------------------
J# 1 30AUZ01 AUTO TRANS CONCERN TECH(S):1891 0.00
C/S THERE IS A ROUGH SHIFT/HICCUP IN THE 1-2 AND 2-1 SHIFTS
@ LOW SPEEDS. ALSO, UNDER FULL THROTTLE THERE IS A HICCUP IN
THE 2-3 SHIFT.
-
CONCERN HAS BEEN PRESENT FOR 9 MONTHS.
FOUND ECM TUNED.
ROADTESTED VEHICLE. CHECKED TRNAMISSION FLUID FOR PROPER
LEVEL AND CLEANLINESS. CHECKED FOR TSB’S RELATING TO SHIFT
CONCERNS. UNABLE TO LOCATE ANY RELATED TSB’S. ROADTESTED
LIKE VEHICLE WITH SAME ENGINE/TRANSMISSION CONFIGURATION
TO COMPARE SHIFT PATTERNS. NOTICED TRANSMISSION HAD SLIGHTLY
HARDER SHIFTS WHEN COMPARED TO TEST VEHICLE. RECOMMENDED
TO CUSTOMER TO PERFORM SVM. CUSTOMER ADVISED ECM WAS TUNED.
CONTACTED AUDI WARRANTY FOR ADVICE ON HOW TO PROCEED. AUDI
WARRANTY ADVISED TO PERFORM SVM ON VEHICLE TO BRING
PARAMETERS TO STOCK. WAS ADVISED THAT AFTER COMPLETION OF
SVM, VEHICLE WOULD BE FLAGGED AND WARRANTY WOULD BE VOIDED.
PERFORMED SVM AND ROADTESTED AGAIN. CHECKED ADAPTATION OF
CLUTCHES AND MONITORED SHIFT COMFORT. NO CHANGE IN SHIFT
QUALITY AFTER SVM. FOUND TRANSMISSION ADAPTED TO CUSTOMERS
STYLE OF DRIVING. ECM TUNING CAUSES CHANGES IN PARAMETERS OF
ECM WHICH CAN DIRECTLY AFFECT SHIFT POINTS AND COMFORT.
I’m not doubting you, but I think the majority of us would very much like to see a scanned copy of that service record moreso than a “copy and past” version that could be edited.
It is understandable for Audi to connect the ECU modification to the “hiccup” you are describing as your problem. The TCU adapts to the power and torque limits of the motor as well as your driving style. If you raise your power limits with aftermarket products it could reveal idiosyncrasies with the way the transmission wants to function.
The positive not is that it doesn’t look like they charged you for the work they did to get to this point, they just don’t feel like jumping through more hoops to remedy a problem that they don’t feel that they can solve.
It’s not their problem at this point, similar to if you installed an aftermarket short shifter on a manual transmission car and then noticed that you syncros don’t engage quite as smoothly as they used to.
So yeah, print that service record for us. Dying to see it.
actually no, I think you’re just about the only one that would demand that he scan that for you. You’re upset that he proved you wrong I guess, but jesus, get over it.
Have you not read the TSB? This isn’t in his head.
I was e-mailed the service record by my SA so I don’t have a paper copy but if you’d like me to forward the e-mail to you directly from my SA just shoot me your e-mail address and I’ll get it right over. Here’s the complete version as well with personal info removed:
************************** D U P L I C A T E I N V O I C E ***************************
CUSTOMER NO. ADVISOR HAT NO. INVOICE NO.
xxxxxxxxx JOSEPH MOLLICA 1694 2859 03/26/12 AUCS699938
LABOR RATE LICENSE NO MIL.IN COLOR STOCK NO.
FIRST MIDDLE LAST XJH-8925 10504 GRAY/ XXXXXXXX
YEAR/MAKE/MODEL DEL. DATE DEL. MILES
ADDRESS 10/AUDI/S4/4DR SDN ATT 05/21/10 4258
VEHICLE ID. NO. SELL DLR NO PROD DATE
XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX 409D01 04/06/10
F.T.E. NO. P.O. NO. R.O. DATE
ADDRESS 03/20/12
HOME PHONE BUS. PHONE COMMENTS
703-XXX-XXXX E# CCBA
LABOR & PARTS----------------------------------------------------------------------
J# 1 30AUZ01 AUTO TRANS CONCERN TECH(S):1891 0.00
C/S THERE IS A ROUGH SHIFT/HICCUP IN THE 1-2 AND 2-1 SHIFTS
@ LOW SPEEDS. ALSO, UNDER FULL THROTTLE THERE IS A HICCUP IN
THE 2-3 SHIFT.
-
CONCERN HAS BEEN PRESENT FOR 9 MONTHS.
FOUND ECM TUNED.
ROADTESTED VEHICLE. CHECKED TRNAMISSION FLUID FOR PROPER
LEVEL AND CLEANLINESS. CHECKED FOR TSB’S RELATING TO SHIFT
CONCERNS. UNABLE TO LOCATE ANY RELATED TSB’S. ROADTESTED
LIKE VEHICLE WITH SAME ENGINE/TRANSMISSION CONFIGURATION
TO COMPARE SHIFT PATTERNS. NOTICED TRANSMISSION HAD SLIGHTLY
HARDER SHIFTS WHEN COMPARED TO TEST VEHICLE. RECOMMENDED
TO CUSTOMER TO PERFORM SVM. CUSTOMER ADVISED ECM WAS TUNED.
CONTACTED AUDI WARRANTY FOR ADVICE ON HOW TO PROCEED. AUDI
WARRANTY ADVISED TO PERFORM SVM ON VEHICLE TO BRING
PARAMETERS TO STOCK. WAS ADVISED THAT AFTER COMPLETION OF
SVM, VEHICLE WOULD BE FLAGGED AND WARRANTY WOULD BE VOIDED.
PERFORMED SVM AND ROADTESTED AGAIN. CHECKED ADAPTATION OF
CLUTCHES AND MONITORED SHIFT COMFORT. NO CHANGE IN SHIFT
QUALITY AFTER SVM. FOUND TRANSMISSION ADAPTED TO CUSTOMERS
STYLE OF DRIVING. ECM TUNING CAUSES CHANGES IN PARAMETERS OF
ECM WHICH CAN DIRECTLY AFFECT SHIFT POINTS AND COMFORT.
JOB # 1 TOTAL LABOR & PARTS 0.00
J# 2 10AUZ01 DRIVEABILITY CONCERN TECH(S):1891 0.00
C/S THERE IS CHATTER FROM THE STEERING WHEEL WHEN TURNING
LOCK TO LOCK WHILE EXITING A PARKING SPACE.
ROADTESTED VEHICLE. SOME SHUDDERING CONSIDERED NORMAL WHEN
TURNING STEERING WHEEL LOCK TO LOCK WITH QUATTRO MODELS.
VEHICVLE IS OPERATING TO SPEC WHEN COMPARED TO LIKE VEHICLE.
JOB # 2 TOTAL LABOR & PARTS 0.00
J# 3 30AUZ04 AUTO TRANS LEAK TECH(S):1891 0.00
C/S HE OBSERVED SOME FLUID ON THE TRANSMISSIONS BELLY PAN
DURING HIS LAST OIL CHANGE. PLEASE INSPECT FOR LEAKING
TRANSMISSION SEALS OR DIFF SEALS.
NO LEAK IN TRANSMISSION FOUND. RESIDUAL OIL FROM OIL FILTER
HOUSING MOST LIKELY CAUSED FROM LAST OIL CHANGE.
JOB # 3 TOTAL LABOR & PARTS 0.00
J# 4 85AUZ19 KEYLESS REMOTE TECH(S):1891 0.00
C/S REMOTE KEY BATTERY WARNING POPS UP IN DIS. PLEASE CHECK
KEY BATTERIES AND REPLACE IF NECESSARY.
-
$16.00 QUOTED
CUSTOMER CALLED BACK AND DECLINED REPAIR.
JOB # 4 TOTAL LABOR & PARTS 0.00
J# 5 60AUZ05 INT SQUEAK/RATTLES TECH(S):1891 0.00
C/S THERE IS A RATTLE FROM THE UPPER B-PILLAR AREA ON THE
PASSENGER SIDE. CONCERN IS NOT SUPER IMPORTANT, BUT PLEASE
ROAD TEST TO VERIFY.
-
NO DIAGNOSIS APPROVED.
UNABLE TO DUPLICATE ANY NOISES IN B-PILLAR. ADVISED CUSTOMER
THERE IS A TSB THAT ADDRESSES CONCERNS OF NOISES IN
B-PALLAR BUT AT THIS TIME COULD NOT VERIFY ANY NOISE.
JOB # 5 TOTAL LABOR & PARTS 0.00
J# 6 01AUZ000 OUT MILEAGE TECH(S):1891 0.00
TECHNICIAN RECORDED MILEAGE AFTER SERVICE AT
10,511 MILES.
JOB # 6 TOTAL LABOR & PARTS 0.00
J# 7 70AUZ10 AUDI/DEALER LOANER TECH(S):1984 0.00
#124 A4 LOANER
CUSTOMER PROVIDED AUDI/DEALER TRANSPORTATION LOANER
JOB # 7 TOTAL LABOR & PARTS 0.00
COMMENTS----------------------------------------------------------------------------
1891 3/20/12 240P .
1694 3/23/12 350P .
TOTALS------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
THANK YOU FOR YOUR BUSINESS!! TOTAL LABOR… 0.00
TOTAL PARTS… 0.00
TOTAL SUBLET… 0.00
TOTAL G.O.G… 0.00
TOTAL MISC CHG. 0.00
TOTAL MISC DISC 0.00
TOTAL TAX… 0.00
--------
TOTAL INVOICE $ 0.00
CUSTOMER SIGNATURE
************************** D U P L I C A T E I N V O I C E ***************************
PAGE 1 OF 1 CONSUMER REACH COPY [ END OF INVOICE ]
PM Sent. Thanks
EDIT: Maybe Not. Odd that you can’t send PMs on this site.
Am I too much of a newb?
Anyways, send to audiacious@hotmail.com
Hokie, sorry to say, and while I’m usually nice, the APR rental car thread has kinda formed my opinion of you, and it’s pretty dim. APR was upstanding and covered your ECU but that wasn’t good enough. I guess in your favor you do seem polite in your posts.
But, sorry to say, you took your car in for a non-issue. Nobody can fix something that isn’t broken.
http://www.audizine.com/forum/showthread.php/476564-More-TD1-info?p=7427513#post7427513
I understand people formed opinions of me based on that APR thread and I obviously have to deal with those opinions. A good amount of folks agreed with me that APR shouldn’t have promised to cover my time out of my car if they didn’t intend on paying it once it took longer than expected. I thought whether I had to go through the hassle of borrowing a car vs renting a car was irrelevant, as they told me they’d cover me $40/day, but obviously folks took issue with that. What’s done is done and I don’t fault folks for disagreeing with me.
Regarding this issue, I had NO IDEA this was normal? How is something like this considered normal and why couldn’t a find a larger discussion on this? I thought I did a pretty exhaustive search but I guess not. Regardless, I still needed to take my car in for some other issues (thought my tranny may have been leaking) and as others have pointed out, TD1 now or TD1 later, I’d still end up TD1 if I needed anything major done anyways.
E-mail forwarded. Don’t know how much it’ll help prove anything to you as what he sent me was just text, but if you want to go ahead and call him up to verify please feel free to contact Joey Mollica at Audi of Tysons. His number is 703-564-6256 and then you can hear it right from the source.
hokie, don’t bother. He wanted to be the TD1 maestro and your information conflicts with his, so he’s hoping he can find a hole in your story.
Bottom line is still the bottom line…mod-friendly dealers re: tuning doesn’t matter anymore as Audi is instituting a check on the tune that bypasses dealer input as normal procedure. At that point you’re kind of on the hook if something goes wrong, large or small. It used to be that small stuff was rarely challenged by Audi, but if the bill looked big enough, it would be investigated, even with Audi warranty sending someone to the dealership. In those big cases you were probably screwed if you were tuned. Now it seems in the smaller cases you are potentially screwed (I’m sure they’ll make a business decision and decide if they want to stick a customer with a $600 bill, even though his car purchase netted the dealership 8% of a $60,000 purchase price. My guess is you’ll get ‘one freebie’ and then you’re going to be on your own).
Incidentally, my B7 RS4 went in for audicare service and I asked the service manager not to reset my VAGCOM coding for convenience features etc since they had done that on my B8 A4 Avant. He said they wouldn’t need to do so on the B7, but explained that on my B8 A4 Avant, the normal procedure is to scan and upload default settings as part of the service, which will wipe out seatbelt chime disable etc.
Yeah the scan wiped out about half of my VAGCOM mods which is really strange. Gear display in the DIS, default ADS mode, mirror down in reverse and some others were still there but all the chimes, and DRL stuff as well as the windows open/close with key were gone. 30 minutes in the car last night and I was back to where I was before though 
I’ve even added the VIM video just for kicks, even though I’ve never used a DVD in the car Will be helpful once my kid is forward facing in a year or so!
That’s not true at all.
I’m as curious as anyone else, and I felt that the vibe on this forum is much better than Audizine so why not ask a direct question? I was hoping that maybe there was more information to work with and understand where they decided it was necessary to actually void that portion of his warranty. We’ve seen people get more expensive work than that done at the dealer after TD1, directly related to the motor, and it was covered by Audi. If Audi determined there wasn’t an existing issue, even after flashing the car back to stock, why would they still void the warranty? To my understanding TD1 is also reversible, so if the aftermarket software is gone, then again I ask why the warranty is still void?
More questions than answers doesn’t mean I’m wrong or that his information conflicts with mine, it just means its different. I thirsty for more info, so rather than buying into the hype that everyone is screwed no matter what I want to identify the grey area.
Don’t worry about it, I’m all for the sharing of information. This board seemed liked a breath of fresh air coming from AZ so I’m all for full and open disclosure.
I do however think you’re misunderstood on TD1. It specifically states in the TSB that it’s NOT reversible so once your flagged, your flagged. I also don’t believe any major work has been done to a TD1 B8S4 as the autoflagging only just came about in the last few weeks. I know tuned folks have gotten major work done in the past when the dealer could look the other way, but I don’t know how possible that will be anymore since it’s flagged automatically.
You saw the full text of my service record so take from it what you want, but what they’ve told me is that my warranty is considered void at this point.