[quote]Who do I write it out to?? ;D
[/quote]
Lol, Jake, lets just keep it in the kitty 
Saki, apologies, Jake, please take note, royalties is accumulating on your end fast ;D ;D ;D
But seriously tho. What a great point. This has to be the cleanest looking kit. Lets not take away from how RS4fan took the time to make all this work on the RHD but RHD or standard the kit really is a lot of parts very carefully designed to fit in zero space. It looks clean and very OEM. Great work again to RS4fan
Great work Rudi!
As you know mines on the back burner at the moment but seeing yours gives me that little bit of inspiration i need to get mine finished. Its now 46c over here so i doubt that ill see anything like your figures but you never know.
For me the next thing is a water/meth kit to get the temps even lower.
I might be in JHB next month so if possible would be good to catch up.
Hi James,
Thanks, get it done mate.
You have my contact details, please let me know when you are in town and let’s grab some lunch and if you have time, go for a ride in the RS just so you can feel what you are missing out on ;D
Having problems viewing the pics bc of PBs new policies. I’m stuck on the install due to some missing hoses from JHM. Need to verify what I’m missing. Can anyone email the pics to wahpao@yahoo.com . Thanks
Hey Nick,
Let me know which ones you need, I did respond to your PM as well. This was just a underhand move from PB, anyone know how I can update my thread and reload the photos rather than hosting them somewhere?
Thanks for the link, manage to get that working, now just to see whether I can update the thread. However, I suspect I haven’t reached the required post count yet.
Thought I would update this thread with some clutch information for anyone planning to go down this route.
For the ones that did read my initial Stage 1 install I did mentioned that I orderred a JHM 3R clutch & L/Flywheel combo with the Stage 1 but elected to not install at the same time. The OEM clutch was still good and I decided for the time being to just run with that as I was not planning to do any hard launches or dragstrip events.
The car back then was sitting on 42170 miles and it copped pretty well with the extra power the way I was driving it. Stage 1+ was installed on 42560 miles and is currently on 43924 miles.
Since the Stage 1+ install I did on a few occasions felt that perhas the clutch was slipping a bit especially when shifting from 1 to 2nd and 2nd to 3rd gears under spirited driving conditions, but I wasn’t sure.
Well, the clutch just couldn’t keep up anymore even with those soft launches the extra power eventually got the better of the OEM clutch and this past Saturday after a fairly brisk launch and quick shift to 2nd and 3rd the clutch just slipped and I had to back off completely to get drive. The time has arrived to get that 3R clutch installed asap.
So to recap, Stage 1 on 42170 miles, Stage 1+ on 42560, Clutch saying enough is enough on 43924 miles.
I feel that you could get away with the Stage 1 and OEM clutch if you don’t do any hard launches, With the Stage 1+, even launching like a Granny the OEM won’t cope.
Will do a separate thread for the JHM 3R clutch and I have also decided to order a KC system and will do a step by step install thread for that as well.
Excited to see the next chapter in this evolution of your car. I have driven in a few cars with the 3r and its a good clutch. JHM did a great job with that you should be really happy.
Picked up the RS today, 3R Clutch and LWFW fitted and the setup feels really good. I have never had a performance clutch on any of my cars so I expected it to be heavy and really aggressive on engagement but I couldn’t have been more wrong :o
Only drove from the shop to my house with quite a few stop and go and traffic lights on route but initial impressions are it feels almost stock. Pedal feels light and almost effortless to operate. The travel/stroke is definitely shorter and it engage a bit quicker but apart from that there is not much else that give it away. Also with the LWFW I was a bit apprehensive about the infamous chatter that comes with it but I must be hard of hearing, I couldn’t hear anything that I can even remotely associate with chatter. Will listen a bit more closely when I have more time this weekend.
Nothing new for most of you but had to post 2-3 pic’s just for the record.
LWFW
http://audirevolution.net/addons/albums/images/77652360.png
Clutch & Pressure Plate
http://audirevolution.net/addons/albums/images/27787105.png
http://audirevolution.net/addons/albums/images/304582724.png
All that’s left is to get cracking on the 500 miles break in distance so guess what I will be doing most of this coming weekend. Can’t wait to get those miles behind me and see what this clutch can really do!
Great update and I cant believe your clutch lasted that long. IT is funny tho that when you went and added the extra power the OEM clutch just gave out.
As for the LWFW chatter that isn’t a common thing if you drive normally. The chatter only happens when you lug or bog the motor in low RPM situations. Normally most drivers would have down shifted by the point the flywheel would chatter but you get those guys who I guess never want to shift LOL.
The great thing is that a LWFW will really help with acceleration of the car. It frees up hp and tq by obviously reducing the rotational mass. When you are able to really hot rod the car you will be able to tell how much quicker the car revs up but on the same token the revs will also drop quicker on shifts so keep that in mind if your trying to get a good 0-60 time or 1/4 mile time.
Yes, but I really babied it to be honest, no intentional hard launches but I did do some quick shifts and on a few occasions I could put money on it that it was slipping. The extra power from the 1+ just stretch the OEM clutch beyond it’s limits and I am glad it gave up, couldn’t really drive the car to it’s full potential since the blower was installed so looking forward to get the 3R broken in and then see what this car can do.
[quote]As for the LWFW chatter that isn’t a common thing if you drive normally. The chatter only happens when you lug or bog the motor in low RPM situations. Normally most drivers would have down shifted by the point the flywheel would chatter but you get those guys who I guess never want to shift LOL.
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Lol, yes, figured that out over the weekend, heard the noise when I applied throttle at low rpm’s in 2nd gear, first thing that came to mind is damn, the shop must have forgot to tighten something and it must be rattle/vibration of some sorts on the exhaust or something, ;D Never heard it again until I did it again on purpose and then realized that must be the “chatter” everyone is mentioning. If that’s it then I don’t see any problem.
Interesting comment about the HP and TQ. I figured that I should see some extra hp but that I would loose a bit in the tq department due the lower rotational mass?
Yes chatter isn’t something most drivers will see. Obviously if the weight of the flywheel was crazy low then it would be more obvious but JHM did a good job finding the right balance in getting weight off the crank shaft and getting enough material mass to keep chatter to a min.
On the drop of the rotational weight. You definitely won’t loose any hp or Tq. It frees up both. IT is hard to measure and its not exactly linear…
Its probably easier explaind like this. You don’t loose hp or tq but you gain hp and you gain tq by removing the resistance to the motors rotational weight. Its like you can make the car faster by taking weight out. You can help reduce the amount of rotational acceleration resistance. The motor can spin more free using less tq to simply spin to the next rpm point.
The fun science way to see this is. Take a 10lb weight put it on a 3 foot rope. now swing the weight around at a set speed. then try to spin the weight faster. Do the same with a 5lb weight. you will be able to accelerate the smaller weight faster even with less work or less “TQ” applied
So it will take less effort to spin the 5lb weight faster. The only plus with a heavier weight is that the heavy weight will be harder to slow down… but how many times do you care how fast your motor spins down… for most its like never… Again since the flywheel weight is less the motor will tend to spin down faster on shifts if you are not quick enough.
Aaahh gotcha, makes total sense now, good explanation!
It’s been a while but I thought I would update the thread with the latest developments.
The 3R break in went well and the clutch functions as advertised. Still can’t believe how easy the car is to drive with that.
So apologies in advance for the looooooong update and possibly a lot of irrelevant information to some!
The persons that followed my build also know that I added a Killer Chiller as well as a vFiz system with a few sensors to monitor temps etc. Another feature of the vFiz was the ability to hook up and monitor boost on the DIS. Took me awhile to get that all hooked up and even longer to record and analyze exactly what boost the car was making at different rpm’s but eventually got around to it.
The Stage 1+ kit is advertised as making between 7/8-9Psi if I am not mistaken. And that is spot on if you live at sea level. For the educated it’s also general knowledge that a blower is belt driven and therefore fixed in relation to the crank pulley so unlike a turbo car altitude will have an impact on peak boost. All things that never crossed my mind until I did a 3rd gear pull and recorded the actual boost. Wow, what an eye opener and a bit of a shock to the system to say the least. I have a table that show and compare boost at different rpm’s and will try and get that loaded, however for some reason I am battling to get photos loaded so will look at that later.
So back to the Boost recorded with the stock Stage 1+, 4.48” JHM Pulley. I have boost figures up to 8500rpm but for the simple reason that I don’t normally want to ever rev that high I am going to stick to 8000rpm which is where I would like to be most of the time. So at 8000rpm I recorded 0.34Bar / 4.93psi. Keep in mind I am sitting at an altitude of 5740ft so really no surprise there, well now that I understand how blowers are affected by altitude. That was not my original reaction though. Initially I was quite disappointed but also excited realizing what a difference the low boost of 4.93psi made to the car. Next thought was ok, how do I get to or as close as possible to 9psi and will the blower cope with that etc. A lot of things went through my mind at the time and was a bit at a lost as to where to start. I reached out to certain people, some of them on this forum as well as JHM, thanks to all of you, to kick around a few ideas and then decided on a plan of attack which was quite aggressive but I decided to find the limit and then adjust down from there.
Ordered a 3.33” Vortech pulley from Summit Racing, installed and went for a cool early morning drive and right of the bat I threw a belt under acceleration, sigh! Back home, replaced the crappy belt with a Gates one and went out again a few days later. Belt stayed on but the max I could get was 6500 rpms and the belt would start to slip. Tried a few other pulls and also gathered some VCDS logs to check Lambda etc but 6500 was the highest rpm achievable due to belt slippage. Logs at least indicated that fueling etc was good. By this stage I have already ordered another Vortech pulley from Summit Racing, this time a 3.60” as well as new 34mm Turbosmart Diverter. Figured I had a 25mm diverter installed so decided to replace with a slightly bigger one just to be safe. Swapped the pulleys, had endless problems with sourcing the correct size belt and to make things worse I couldn’t get hold of any Gates ones so just went with what was available! At the same time I also replaced the tensioner pulley with the same type, old one felt a bit notchy and sticky, so decided it’s a good idea to replace. Belt stayed on under acceleration and I could get to 8000rpm but as soon as I get off the gas the belt will jump off and shred. I was stuck and out of ideas. Only good thing was we manage to gather some more logs and again all the results were showing the tune and HPFP’s were good to support the additional required fuelling. The belt situation was worrisome though and I started looking into that, no fun driving a car that throw belts so I had to get that resolved. I already knew the tensioner pulley is a potential contributor but wasn’t convinced it was the primary cause. From the word go my suspicion was the new Vortech blower pulleys because initially that was the only thing that changed. I had the smaller 3.33” pulley on hand so pulled out some measuring tools and compared the offset etc. with the JHM pulley. I found there was a small difference in offset and that was later on confirmed by someone more qualified with advance precise measuring tools. Ultimately there is a difference of exactly 0.4mm between the Vortech and JHM Pulleys. The other main difference was the absence of the 3mm lip around the outer edges of the Vortech pulleys. That offset was small but I didn’t want to take any chances so I had my local machine shop manufacture me a 90mm / 3.54” size pulley with the 3mm lip and correct offset. With that sorted I could scratch the pulley off as a suspect but even though it was a step in the right direction it didn’t solve my belt problem. I still had belts jumping off when I get off the gas suddenly at 8000rpm! Talk about paying school fee’s!!!
Custom Pulley
http://audirevolution.net/addons/albums/images/457562341.jpg
Trust me when I say I can swap a belt on the car out with my eyes closed and without taking off the bumper! No problem!
Knowing there is something else I looked further and found another interesting link on the net where some knowledgeable blower guy described my exact same problem and apart from pulley offsets he pointed me in a direction that I never thought of namely the diverter. Basically saying centrifugal blowers will throw belts when getting off the gas suddenly at high boost during high rpm pulls, exactly my problem! The reason, with the throttle body valve closing suddenly and with the blower still spinning at high rpm, too small or non functioning diverters will basically create excessive back pressure which will stall the blower wheel from spinning due to the compressed air not being diverted fast enough and that sudden jerk causes the belt to jump off because the crank pulley will still drive the belt at high rpm. Sorry, simple description but go Google and read for yourselves if interested.
So onto the diverter I went. Pulled the old one because I did order a bigger 34mm one! Damn, turned out I already had a 34mm diverter installed so decided to keep the old one in place and sell the new one. For some reason though I decided to check the installation instructions and discover according to Turbosmart my diverter was installed the wrong way around? I was sure I installed as per JHM instructions so went onto my blower instructions and pic’s that came with my kit and sure enough I had it installed as per their instructions and pictures. Not knowing any better I send them, Turbosmart, an email to query and the response came back confirming that their instructions are correct and I should not install the other way around! The above story about the high boost and small or non functional diverter now made more sense to me. Well it suited my problem so I am sticking with it. Knowing that Turbosmart, well I read their documentation, supply three type of spring tensions I checked the new with the old and sure enough it’s different. I decided to keep the softer spring that was in the JHM supplied unit but decided to first check the diverter functionality before swapping everything out. Hooked up my vacuum pump and the old one wouldn’t hold vacuum, new one would hold vacuum until I release. Swapped the springs and now the old one with the stiffer spring wouldn’t even open with same vacuum pump. Not sure why but it seems that not only was it hooked up the wrong way around it was also possibly defective. Went ahead and installed the new one with the softer spring as per their instructions. Also check the 2nd smaller diverter closer to the blower and that was ok. Went ahead and trimmed as much as possible from the vacuum lines to keep overall line lengths as short as possible.
TurboSmart BOV
Not the best pic but clear enough to show the correct vs incorrect fitment. The factory example on the left is how my Stage 1+ TurboSmart Bov was installed. Clearly incorrect as can be seen from the instructions. Simple fix though around 10-20 mins.
Turned out the new tensioner pulley was also toast, “MADE IN CHINA” junk and had to replace again. Not many options so found a 2nd hand OEM pulley at an Audi breaker yard as a temp fix.
Got all hooked up and installed and went out for some testing. So far so good, belt is staying on and all things seem to indicate that the problem has been resolved. Last test was to do a dyno pull because that would normally throw the belt as well but went through a few pulls without any issues so I am confident the problem has been solved.
With the belt problem solved I could go out and record some 3rd gear pulls. This is how the smaller pulley stacks up against the original one.
Power at the wheels are now as follows, pulls done at same operator. Perhaps important to keep in mind that the previous high of 428whp was recorded in Winter vs now midst of summer with 30+ Degree Celsius ambient temps.
4.48" Pulley: 315wkw / 428whp
3.54" Pulley: 360wkw / 489whp (90mm Pulley)
So not sure what that will equate to at the flywheel I guess around 600hp give or take??
The important bits are the 4.48" Pulley peak of 4.93psi @ 8000rpm vs same @5500rpm for the 90mm Pulley
And then the 8.41psi peak @8000rpm for the 90mm Pulley
Below a boost comparison between the 4.48 & 3.54"(90mm) Pulleys during a 3rd gear pull. Also recorded the Time of Day, Ambient Temps and the different sensor temp readings.
Great update. The blower is still in its peak range you picked up about 18whp per lb of boost. So still good gains. If you would have made the extra 1lb or so that the stage 1+ makes you would be in the 500+whp range and that’s what we have seen from others.
The blow off valve makes good sense as well. Good find on your part.
Thanks, overall I am totally satisfied with how this turned out. I am so close to that 9psi 500+ whp I am sure I will make that shortfall up by pushing to 8200 rpm’s or when I ran the car in cooler conditions.
The kicker for me, now that I understand the setup better, is how flexible the package is to allow cars at altitude to make or get close to their claimed horsepower numbers without compromising any reliability. Yes, I am definitely generating a lot more heat by spinning the blower faster but with the chiller installed its not an issue at all. Definitely one of the better mods I have done on the car by far.
I would like to post some pic’s of the new tensioner pulley etc but I somehow can’t, I manage to upload the pic’s but now can’t access my album to copy the url links. Anyway, will look at it again later.
Ideally I would like to be able to drive the car at lower altitude’s or down to the coast with having to swap to a bigger pulley. Not sure what the possibility of fitting an electronic boost controller to the setup is as that allow me to drive at any altitude without the risk of damaging the motor.
Glad to hear that you are enjoying the car now!
[quote=“rs4fan”]The reason, with the throttle body valve closing suddenly and with the blower still spinning at high rpm, too small or non functioning diverters will basically create excessive back pressure which will stall the blower wheel from spinning due to the compressed air not being diverted fast enough and that sudden jerk causes the belt to jump off because the crank pulley will still drive the belt at high rpm. Sorry, simple description but go Google and read for yourselves if interested.
[/quote]
A similar thing would happen with a turbocharger that has a blow off valve not opening correctly as well. However since it isn’t mechanically connected to the thing driving it then it just slows down while making a bunch of noise. I know that you were having issues with this but I didn’t put it together enough to say to check that.
Would definitely be interested in seeing you get an electronic boost controller setup installed to be able to go down to lower altitude even sea level without the potential of blowing up the engine.