One more example of the Tial fail.

B5 S4/ RS4
#49

Sounds like tweets showed up at EPL with a misfiring car, and Tony ignored Reid’s warnings…and continued pushing it hard while tuning it on the dyno. Fail #1.

Also sounds like a bad choice was made with the hardware over at AMD. Fail #2.

Sounds like both guys (EPL/AMD) fucked up…and only one of them stepped up to fix the issue (AMD). Although they caused the issue, while EPL just exacerbated it.
[/quote]
Right! i admire jason for that…he better just use the best bolts studs he can buy this time!!!

#50

No doubt I overreacted and misused info. Got a little too excited. I will admit I was wrong to use it like I did. We will hope for the best when the car is done.
Check out the tour schedule guys! It’s on my web link in my post in the general forum.

#51

lol plugging the musical in a dragstrip argument. I have to say, I have never seen that before.

#52

That was awesome!

#53

Douchetastic IMHO

#54

Less talking, more racing please. I’m sure Reid’s car is going to be a beast when it’s done. Hunters car is redic fast for a stock block and I think he can get into low 11s with his current setup. Both are great guys if you have ever met both of them!

#55

I’m not sticking up for anything, definitely not Unitronic nor Tial. I was commenting on how it’s inaccurate to act like K03 allroads commonly run 12.3x in the quarter.

And did a 3 year old video really just get copied from youtube, rehosted here and a new thread made so that you guys can rabble rouse with each other while enjoying your favorite pastime of ‘Hate-Tial’ ;D

#56

I don’t think Allroads have such a large showing in the 1/4 mile so on that point it would be best compared to the over all performance of the 2.7T. For the 2.7T this TialFail is one more in the list of well below excitement for even a ko3 car.

I think your missing the importance of this video. The Tial cars and the over all Tial campaign seems to be an empty bag. While it comes off as this great alternative when you really stack these cars up they are nothing more then a glorified dyno sheet and not much else. I personally fell into this Tial Trap and Im glad to see more of this first hand proof that these turbos seem to be nothing more then market hype pushed by a few dealers that are clearly making a large markup.

#57

There is not a large markup.

Comparing the allroad, heaviest of all cars available with the 2.7t is not apples to apples.

Once again Blake, who are you? I still don’t think anyone knows, you claim to not remember your old handle, I think you are trollin.

#58

Snow. I think the point is no matter how you slice it. This is one more fail for the suposid gret tials.
The Allroad is by far the heaviest of the 2.7Ts but then again hunters car the 125 car with the Rs6r turbos is a wagon. So what are are taling here. 300lbs difference.

I don’t think the 300lbs would make up for the almost 10mph difference in trap speeds and almost 1/2 a second in et.

#59

I was offered a 800$ discount over MSRP on a set of 605 turbos from a Tial direct dealer. So there is at least 800$

I don’t think anyone here is saying that this is a apples to apples. More so a much less impressive result when you look at the collaboration and the companies involved.

Jarred. Look for my user name in the old Audiworld. It should be blakeDs4 or S4’dBlake. This was close to 8-9 years ago so your going to have to cut me some slack and I used to post on Audizine quite a bit. However due to the fact that they lost most of there site in some sort of data crash where everyone needed to resign up I can’t link you to most of my posts over there.

Explain to me why you think Im trolling? I genuinely took interest in the Tail turbos. I know the Tial brand is very strong when you look at there apps outside of the S4. After seeing post after post after post of dyno sheets and reviews. I got excited. HOWEVER when I came here and then started looking at the actual deeper inspection of what the Tial turbos had actually done. It has been quite flat. I my self backed out of the purchase of the 605s after about 4 failed turbo threads and a ridiculous amount of lack luster results and a company (AMD) that seemed to have nothing but excuses and insults for there house brand turbo basically being nothing more then a dyno turbo. Add people like TweetsestateS4 and it completes the montra that Tial turbos require a band of cheerleaders to try and pump excitement as the actual end results are less then acceptable for most people.

At this time Im not sold on any one idea. I just know that the Tial road seems to be one that when anyone gets on it they turn into someone that spends more time defending the poor results and performance rather then enjoying the car. The S6Atron rs6r car seems to be nothing special other then the formula that is much closer to what I Want and thats something with great area under the curve and more proven performance that I myself can relate to. Am I all ready to jump on the JHM Rs6r badwagon. Not quite. I want to see a few more results. However from were I stand in less then 1 year the RS6r turbos have shown much more promise then the Tials that I have decided to pass on.

If that makes me a troll then guilty as charged

#60

I think people are focused WAY too much on the Tial turbo themselves.

They’re probably a decent midsized turbo, that requires a very particular formula to kick some ass. (snowtrooper mentioned they love octane/timing…and jason@AMD once said they don’t work well without race gas or a strong meth tune). Without following that formula you’re apparently not going to get brilliant performance.

Reality sets in though when you realise that even if you do follow that formula, the guys tuning 90% of the Tial setups (EPL) have shown us time and time again, they just don’t tune Audis very well for acceleration. Sorry. Before anyone says ‘BUT THEY TUNE PORSCHES!’ and ‘BUT THE TUNE R8s FOR HEFFNER!’, please save it. Having shiny floors and an impressive list of cars you were able to tune doesn’t mean anything. They just mean you got the job.

When the fastest Tial 605 cars are

  1. that recent guy on AZ (self tuned)
  2. notorious (self tuned)

and the fastest Tial 770 car is

  1. Tony Aiello (jfonz tuned+tweaked by Aiello)

…all despite probably 50 other forum guys being EPL tuned (or is it 100? Or more)…and no EPL car has even run 11.999 yet lol. It’s pretty frigging clear that EPL is the biggest weaklink and their weak K04 results are continuing here with their weak Tial results.

They’re tuning for the dyno, on the dyno, and selling with the dyno. That doesn’t mean the Tial 605 or 770 turbos are a good choice that is getting hurt by bad tuning (or it doesn’t mean they totally suck). It means it’s pretty clear that there are better options out there for going fast in a 2.7T car…and when you consider your tuning options, I don’t see why anyone is bothering with Tial, other than some dyno-driven allegiance for EPL and the hardware dealers.

For my money, I can’t imagine dumping money into something that is only ‘proven’ by the dyno…and has been DISproven on the dragstrip. Aren’t we buying our big turbos in order to accelerate hard and fast? Who fucking cares about the dyno if the car isn’t doing any better than old OTS AWE kits.

p.s. want a prediction? The guy making the most noise with Tial cars built is jason@amd, and he also has an RS4 supercharger kit he’s working on in the new company with jonathan cohen. My prediction is that this relationship will breakup at some point here (the EPL relationship). Once the marketplace figures out the EPL weak link and there’s a shift AWAY from dyno bullshit and TOWARDS actual acceleration data, the market will then leave EPL projects behind (and EPL will focus on exotic owners who don’t have time to research what they’re buying). This will force AMD, if they’re worth their salt, to look for another tuning partner.

#61

Sakimano, I believe much of that to be true. I after more research have found that the compressure and exhaust design of the turbos are part of the issue. While they perform well at higher boost apps that seems to be the only way to make up for what seems to be a large amount of lag when its needed.

#62

1/8 mile time for a tial 770 car

8.2 @ 96

So basically he was on his way to a 12.3-12.5 @ 122 or so. Running 50/50 meth at 29 psi.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gub7V2sH45I&feature=youtube_gdata_player

These cars really seen to be slow until about 6000 in third gear. And by slow I am using a relative term…i.e. Relative to what we expect from a 500-600 whp car.

For perspective, look at his 1/8 elapsed time…he is dead even with my stock RS4 after half the track even though he is making double the power (he said 600 whp) and weighs 300 lbs less. His mph is starting to rock though at 96 vs my 85. He is into forth gear at this point and flying…but the car digs it self such a huge hole in the first two or three gears. This was his personal record by the way.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gub7V2sH45I&feature=youtube_gdata_player

#63

[quote=“BlakeD,post:61,topic:3801”]
Regarding spool/lag, I’ve looked over any logs I could get my hands on over the years, and spool for the 605 and OEM full RS6’s are pretty similar (the lag difference between K04’s and RS6’s is likely larger than the lag difference between RS6’s and 605’s). I haven’t seen any logs for the RS6-R’s yet, so I can’t comment regarding them either way.

Just thought I’d throw that out there, since you actually have a B5 and are looking for turbos rather than just having an academic discussion. Good luck with whatever you end up with!

#64

[quote=“jibberjive,post:63,topic:3801”]

I know this might be sackreligous but logs have been the down fall of the B5. To say a Rs6 turbo and a 605 turbo have the same boost and same profile only seems to be true on logs. In real world apps. Its appears that the logs just like anything else have been a product of someone working to do there best to make something look better then it is. Im going to hook up with a local guy (ill ask his name or user name) he has 605s tuned by EPL Im going to see how I feel about a in car ride.

#65

This will get interesting…

http://www.audizine.com/forum/showthread.php/509112-We-have-one-question-to-ask-How-do-you-feel-about-740AWHP-station-wagons

[quote]… After several rounds of tuning with our good friends at European Performance Labs (EPL)…
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[quote]Furthermore this avant was in no way shape or form to be built as a dyno queen, we will be upgrading and replacing all of the drivetrain components to allow this S4 to be extensively abused at the track with no worry of braking components.
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#66

‘the track’…i.e. at HPDE days? Further, did you see where they said this?

[quote]Next on the to-do list will be an complete OEM RS4 body conversion all in an effort to fit 10+ inch width wheels to enhance our traction abilities
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In other words don’t expect to see any testing of the car anytime soon, sadly.

I think this is pretty sad…

[quote=RS WORX]After hundreds of man hours put into both building and refining our very own Worx Wagon, yesterday all of our work finally paid off. After several rounds of tuning with our good friends at European Performance Labs (EPL) testing & tuning new modifications our efforts proved fruitful. We were able to extract 740 all wheel horsepower from our S4 on VP MS109 fuel.
We are happy to announce that we have now built the MOST powerful 2.7T equipped Tial 770 Audi in existance.
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Shit like this is funny. Their ‘accomplishment’ is a dyno result. On their dyno. Their ‘payoff’ is a dyno sheet. Their accompishment is a piece of paper. The ‘most powerful’ title is a dyno title.

What the fuck happened to the Audi performance car world where we all worship paper printouts instead of actually going fast???

#67

Yes, yes it will. I have already gone through an argument with one of the Winter Mode guys about the car:

http://www.audizine.com/forum/showthread.php/394176-Winter-Mode/page417

I just stated that I’d like to see some times since the Tials can’t seem to back up their dyno sheets. Yet again I am back in the argument with “kneel” one of your stgIII big turbo A4 guys of DYNO vs. 1/4 MILE.

I still can’t see how people can totally refute the 1/4 mile. He has no said that “it is just for race car drivers” and “I can say my car is fast and try to prove on a track…yet i have no knowledge of how to. Its all in the driver…”. People are determined that doing well on the track is 100% up to the driver and that it has no use for measuring performance.

I believe that you should not go by one thing at all. Look at Top Gear, they list hp #'s, but they also do drag races and laps around their track. This tells you HP#, straight line speed, and whether a car that is slower on the straights can make up for it with cornering speed.

#68

^^^No other performance car community in the world ignores the quarter mile. NONE.

It is JUST Audi.

I can’t wait to see this EPL tuned ‘monster’ run 11.8 @ 132.