since it’s slower than stock, I guess I have when I used to own an S4. As for sound, no I’m sure it sounds epic. If someone came to me and said ‘Hi. I have an exhaust for you that will make your car slightly slower and will choke the exhaust stream with a smaller diameter than stock, and worse bends…but it comes with a remote control and sounds great’ I would have to ask the person how much they were going to pay me.
That’s me though…I bought an RS4 for a number of reasons but performance is chief among them. I haven’t heard a bad sounding RS4 yet…so I’m not sure whatever capristo does could be worth it.
I guess that is you and i respect that & have no issues w/ that. However, I stopped living my life a 1/4 mile at a time a few years ago. I purchased the RS4 for the complete package; performance, handling, looks, the V8 sound, and the ability to use it in all 4 seasons.
Few questions though…How do you know it’s slower than stock? Do you have any data points that show that? The notion that it’s slower than stock is correct when you compare the exhaust in cruise mode (valves closed) to a stock rs4 in S mode (open valves). However, the capristo in open mode (valves open) pushes out more tq via vag-com than a stock rs4 in S mode (valves open).
Additionally, i think ( i have no data for my next statement) that this would be true with any valved exhaust. ie, when the valves are closed it would be slower than a stock rs4 in S mode (valves open).
Also, the bends showed in this post are not an actual representation of the bends. Here is the engineering document of the exhaust as well as better pictures of the bend:
I guess you live your life one vagom log at a time?
Not sure what the quarter mile crack has to do with anything…but if you’re testing your car with vagcom, it’s the same thing guys do with the quarter mile. Check the quattrofail high-and-mighty anti quarter mile attitude at the door would be my advice. If you don’t understand the quarter mile and it’s usefulness as a measurement of acceleration, that’s fine, but don’t rail against it and act like I live at the strip and have fast and furious on my mousepad at work just because I do understand its usefulness. I’m a grown ass man.
Post up your logs. Would be interesting to see. I can just comfortably predict that if we’re measuring how fast the car actually goes (not how logs or dynos look) a 2.25" exhaust will hinder flow somewhat, vs. the stocker at 2.35, if all else is equal. Maybe I’m wrong.
p.s. you bought the rs4 for 5 reasons…
performance, handling, looks, the V8 sound, and the ability to use it in all 4 seasons
only one is improved by capristo. Not sure what the point of that statement was.
I guess you’re the only one allowed to crack a joke on this site?
The point of my statement was, your primary focus on the car is performance. Again, i have no issues w/ that and respect that. Performance is one of the reasons I got the car as well, but not the chief reason. If it was the chief reason, I probably would’ve gotten another car. You’re also right that the capristo exhaust definitely improves the sound of the V8, but it also improves the performance. Is it the best performance exhaust, no, but to say it makes the car slower or has 180 degree bends towards the end of the exhaust is incorrect.
Also, I have no issues w/ the qtr mile…heck ppl make a living by racing nationally on the 1/4 mile. However, is it the best way to measure performance gains/loss? There are quite a few variables such as driver skill, shift times, alt, temp etc. I know the similar/same sort of variables exist when comparing vag-com logs or even dyno plots so there really is no fool proof solution.
saki there is no way rs4_saloon’s car is slower due to the capristo when it is in open mode. his car has a capristo and stasis ms no other mods that are performance related.
he was at my house the other day with another guy from audizine. i have driven and rode in rs4_saloon’s car numerous times and it is quick (based on my butt dyno0 and you are correct in using the word “epic”. I never get sick of hearing his car…it is ridiculous and the best part is by clicking the remote button it becomes quiet even at WOT.
the guy from audizine that was visiting had a milltek and the difference between the sound of these two exhaust is like comparing the sound of a stock exhaust to a aftermarket exhaust. the milltek sounded alright but not even close to something just amazing like the sound of a capristo…it is just ridiculous when you hear it.
the guy from audizine was like…WTF. he had never heard one in person but after hearing it and then taking a ride he realized why the capristo cost so much…it is worth it.
i am not totally down with the tips…but they grow on you after a while.
Rs4 saloon…if it was a joke I missed that. No offense but that is a tired one, and it is the standard line people from quattrofail use when they want to distance themselves from the performance lie detector.
The whole shift times and variables thing is over played again by people who are scared of the truth and who have not been to the dragstrip frankly. It is an easy way to try to discredit the global de facto standard acceleration test…but if you spent some time there with your car you would realize that it is very valuable. As long as you launch reasonably well (not great…just pull away briskly like you would at a red light when you want to beat a buddy in the car beside you) and shift like a guy who likes cars would shift (no need to powershift or anything) your trap speed will tell us quite a bit.
As for in open mode it is definitely better than stock…why? Because it is loud? That makes no sense. If it is restrictive, it is restrictive…sound is a function of resonated sections and mufflers. If the stock mufflers are super restrictive and the capristo is a straight through design you may be on to something but it is a 2.25" catback and that won’t help anything other than capristo and their bottom line for buying cheaper pipe.
So…any actual performance testing other than swesnas butt dyno ? Any pulls between you three?
Is it really the defacto standard acceleration test? If so, any driver can be placed in any type of car (w/ launch control, w/o launch control, manual vs double clutch auto etc) and test the acceleration of the car. I think driver skill has quite a bit to do with it and thats why i personally feel it might not be the best method to test whether a mod improved performance or not. For example, in the 1/4 logs you have collected, there are quite a few ppl w/ prominent mods, JHM for example, and some have run in the mid to high 12’s and some have run in the 13’s.
I just feel there are many variables w/ the 1/4 mile test, driver, launch, shifting skills, are the tires warmed up, is the track warmed up etc. W/ a dyno, you take the launch factor out, shifting skills out, tire temps out. In both scenarios you still have to take into account the exterior temp & altitude. The dyno can also be misleading as vendors will play w/ their dyno’s to tweak higher/lower numbers so you can spend money on mods at their shops or to show you a high number, post mod as well.
I personally think the 1/4 test is a great test to see how skilled the driver & the car is in straight line acceleration. Unfortunetly, to measure the performance value of a mod, shouldn’t we be looking at how skilled the car is and not the driver?
my 2 cents…and again, all scenarios have their pro’s and cons.
Driver skill does indeed play a role in the 1/4 mile but at our performance levels, not as much as you might think. There’s more to a 1/4 mile time slip than just the final 1/4 mile time. All of the interim times and speed traps can provide a hell of a lot of information. One just needs to know how to read them properly. At our 12/13 second performance level, all you really need is a decent launch and decent shifts. Nothing above what a spirited acceleration is on the street. Furthermore, with enough launches, you start getting a better picture. It’s like statistics, the greater the sample size, the more accurate the data gets. It’s a great acceleration / performance benchmark. And when making a modification, will show whether more power was created down low, up top, overall, etc. When I was young, I used to do a lot of road circuit racing thinking the dragstrip was lame. However, after a while and better informing myself on reading 1/4 mile times and understanding drag racing, I realized it’s actually an excellent measure of a car’s acceleration. It’s not the end all of tests but it sure is a good one. I find dynos to be useful when custom tuning a car (i.e. back to back runs over and over again while making tweaks to the tune) but it’s certainly not a great overall performance indicator. Heck, my supercharged v8 needs a lot of air to shine (both from a volume of air perspective as well as its overall cooling properties), no dyno fan will be able to replicate my car going down the track and will thus most likely show lower numbers than it should. That won’t stop me from going to the dyno for fun but one needs to understand a dyno’s limitations (and I’m not even referring to biased “tuner” dynos that can easily play with numbers).
Not to veer too off topic but since I know rs4_saloon I want to chime in. He was well informed prior to his purchase so I don’t think it is a big deal that he is happy with his exhaust even if it is not the most popular choice on this forum or otherwise… He has not claimed it is the most efficient/power making exhaust out there. He know’s it’s not, he wasn’t duped and his priorities may differ from others. ok - no big deal. He likes the sound (as did I when I heard it at the last run), he likes the quality, the looks and the performance it yields. Nothing wrong with that. It may not be slower than stock - none of us really have solid proof from real world road/track testing, just speculation based on theory from flow analysis via various tubing diameters. Weirder things have happened in engineerings tests right?
I own the JHM 2.75 exhaust and I’m looking forward to installing it. I also own Tubi cans, love the sound and the quality and the looks of the quad tips has actually grown a bit on me. When I install the JHM system I plan to really give the Sebring’s a chance to break in and see if I like the sound. If I really can’t take them or just miss the Tubi sound more I will swap the Tubi’s in with the help of a qualified exhaust shop to help with the reduction. I may end up loosing a touch of flow or power but I’m not concerned. I am performace orientated when it comes to priorities but not at any cost. I will put flanges in the back though so I can swap mufflers at will just like I will up front so I can swap between cats and catless. I like to try different set-ups and want different optoins for different events/reasons etc. It’s all good imo.
I had my butt dyno calibrated last week and it is pretty accurate ;D
I agree combo of different methods of testing does show the complete picture when it comes to performance.
But all I can say is when the AZ member heard RS4_Saloon start up the beast it was instant kid in a candy shop amazement…he honestly could not believe how the car sounded and he further could not believe how it sounded when we took our little ride afterwards.
all valid points. You mentioned statistics and increasing the sample size to get a better idea of what might fall in the 95th percentile. I personally have never been to the drag strip so I know very little about the cost of it. I have had my car dyno’d and that too costs money. That’s why I personally resorted to getting the vag-cable and just doing log collection on the same street. The one big variance that can come up w/ log collection is the outside temp for your runs & altitude. I feel w/ log collection, you can create a larger sample size b/c it’s a one time fee (the cable) as opposed to paying to run on the strip or taking your car to the dyno over and over again. While a large sample size is important, i think reducing the variance is critical as well so there is fewer analytics involved in translating a 1/4 slip to what your mod actually did for you.
Perhaps I will give this 1/4 mile thing a shot to see what this fun is about. Swesna, let’s go.
MMA aka RS4_Saloon…I can bet you will do very well in the 1/4 mile…you are a very good driver…i have no doubt on your abilities at the 1/4 mile…would be great to see…once the weather gets good we will go and then post up time slips…this time i will make sure they dont fly out the window.
…and that’s why you shouldn’t speak about the 1/4 mile. We aren’t talking about launch control cars. We aren’t talking about auto/double clutch DSG cars. We are talking about comparing RS4s to RS4s.
Further, we are not talking about elapsed time…we are talking about trap speeds. Trap speeds don’t vary much. elapsed times do…but has anyone in this thread asked for your ET? I think I pretty clearly said trap speed is what we are looking at with most of these cars.
Go have a look at my thread titled ‘New Stock RS4 record today’ and have a look at the 13 passes I made. 8 of them were clean and full out (excluding missed shifts, shake down runs where I was just getting a feel for the car, or one run where I forgot ESP on, then just cruised the track), and in 7 of the 8, the trap speed varied by 1.0% or less from the absolute highest (108.36 MPH). The other varied less than 2%. You are not going to magically increase trap speed by being a good driver…and you are not going to ruin trap speed by being a regular driver. It is a reflection of the car’s ability to accelerate from 0-1320 feet. It is very consistent unless you change the car.
As for cost, are you seriously worried about the cost of the dragstrip as a test? It’s $20-30 to go…and you might go 3 times over the life of your car as far as ‘testing’ goes. In reality you may go a few more times because it’s fun as hell going 120 mph without fear of police intervention. Your vagcom cable costs $350. Your dyno runs cost $60-100 a pop.
Further, speaking of costs…aren’t you the guy who bought a Capristo!!! lol. re: cost, did you buy Manny’s old exhaust? If so, I reckon cost will be a non-issue for you as the used price on a good exhaust rarely changes much. You’ll probably sell it for what you paid for it, a la NY07RS4 and his tubi. Another super expensive exhaust option, but if you get a good deal on one preowned, you can basically rent it for free for a few years.
Sorry if I slammed your exhaust above. I’m speaking from a logical point of view, about an entirely illogical pursuit, performance cars. Clearly I’m not 100% performance oriented because, if we want to use an analagous example for the exhausts, the RS4 is the Capristo of this automotive segment. By far the most expensive, and slower than the M3 and C63 with which it competes. Throw in the CTS-V and we look really stupid. Of course none of us regret our purchase, so I understand where you’re coming from.
lol I never said that. I said many of the outspoken douchebags on quattroworld are clueless on performance and are just chequebook enthusiasts. They act like elitists and talk down to people because they don’t own an RS4. i.e. they come into a thread, embarass themselves by showing us all what they don’t know, then try to belittle the sensible posts that expose them as clueless by saying ‘how would you know, you don’t even own an RS4’…all while they’re talking to a chemical engineer whose knowledge would spin circles around them.
Obviously not everyone over there, but a handful of morons love to perpetuate this stereotype, and do so on any forum that will listen to them.
So we have RS4_saloon with a Capristo catback and an otherwise stock car?
Then we have swesna who has who knows what on the car…still stock I think but about to be modded.
Then we have the new guy Mark who posted that video thread…and has ‘a bunch of bolt ons’. What exactly?
Would be good to see you guys do some pulls. Maybe since you are all so scaerd of variables etc., just line up in third gear at 2000 RPM and then rev out to 8000 RPM. It will be the most anticlimactic race ever (I did this with Mistro once to show him that his carbon concerns were overblown) and it took ages, but was pretty effective.
