Piggy back goes oink oink...

B8 S4
#61

I’m a total noob and have never messed with the ECU on any car I’ve owned…just not a big “mod’er” and I generally just buy the performance (car) I’m looking for and be done with it.

That being said I’m now looking at possibly picking up an S4. I’ve read through that thread and it looks like if you stick with the basic settings (B, 1 on the basic model & 1, 1 on the Pro) that everything stays within safe parameters on 91 or 93 octane and you get a nice little boost to your performance for $300 bucks…so why not?

Looks like the OP did do a real Dyno and saw 49whp (on 93 octane) gain with the piggy vs stock. That’s not bad at all.

#62

From my perspective. These are not 10 or 15 year old cars. Heck they are barely 5 years old. The true enthusiasts realize that a 300$ signal dusrupter isn’t exactly advancing the platform. This isn’t new better technology. The top guys worked along side many of the top tuners to help develop a real full body tune. I feel those guys and the excited others realize that company’s invest where there supporters are. If there wasn’t money to be made the top company’s that really help push development wouldn’t keep updating and advancing the platform.

300$ is like 299$ too much. Goto radio shack and get a 3.6v diode put it on the boost sensor and spend the other 75 cents on a cheese burger

#63

You quote me and then completely ignore my post…interesting.

#64

Not sure what he ignored…

You said:
“and you get a nice little boost to your performance for $300 bucks…so why not?”

Pretty sure he was just answering your question.

#65

No…it was a completely condescending response that in no way answered my query.

#66

Thanks quad for saying something. guess my answer wasn’t for everyone. I’m thinking don’t ask why not if you don’t want to know part of why not.

#67

So what exactly are you asking then?

You pretty much said, “I’ve read the thread, thing dyno’d 50 WHP gain, looks fine, and it only costs 300. So why not?”

Justin said, “not worth it, go get a real tune, or if you are convinced spoofing sensors is fine, then spend 30 cents on a diode”. His point is that this is not the proper way to modify a car made in 2015 (specifically the ECM which you are spoofing). There are plenty of posts discussing “why this is bad” in the AZ thread and here, go read Jran’s posts, he’s done a good job mediating this.

If you want someone to pat you on the back, say “go for it bro, don’t listen to the haters, 300 for stg 1 and no TD1”, then go to AZ and join in on the fray.

So what exactly do you want us to tell you again? All the relevant information is here and in the AZ thread, you are pretty much asking the most basic question all over again, and creating a circular discussion. And getting mad when someone replied (I think most are tired of talking about this).

#68

Man, lighten up: to start with, justincredible began by saying “from my perspective” then he went on to answer your question from “his perspective”. Maybe you didn’t like his perspective; sobeit, but it seems to me that all you wanted was an affirmative to “…so why not?” and he didn’t give you that- sorry.

#69

First of all this entire post sounds like a sale pitch.
“Hey I’m no photographer, but that guy seems to take nice wedding photos, and it’s only $500 bucks, why not?”
"Hey I’m no carpenter but that guys makes nice chairs for $20 bucks why not?

That type of persuasive comment always leads to a crazy battle to protect a product.
So,… As by saki rules, answer us one question: are you in any way associated or receive monetary incentive from the company and product in discussion?

Second, Justin as mentioned by above went on about his perspective. Which a lot of us would agree with over here. In the end there is only one rule for our cars: you get what u paid for.
Products marketed 7x cheaper than their competitors and to claim they make exactly the same results or closer to; will inevitably generate a cheap result. That’s the mission on this forum. To try and help members avoid those pitfalls as we all here have been victims of this and learned from it.

So your post: "hey why not? " even though is your opinion cAn give a person looking into a tune the persuasion to try it and in the end damage their cars. Justin response was only to educate whoever is reading here for knowledge on which direction to take. Don’t get offended if it’s not to your liking.

Paulo.

#70

he told you why not. Weren’t you basically asking why not buy this piggyback? He told you why not.

Did you want him to support you and say ‘yeah! way to go! go buy it, it can’t hurt your $50,000 car!’

Internet car forums are not the place to come looking for support for bad ideas. There are a couple of guys in the S6 forum who asked about a couple of bad ideas, and when they were told not to do them, they got all upset and offended.

I don’t understand.

Ask your buddies who know fuck all about cars if all you want is ‘yeah, sure, why not…give it a whirl!’. Don’t ask people who have been around the block in the tuning world and then get upset when they answer your question and try to help you by stopping you from making a bad decision.

#71

Cheap. Fast. Reliable.

Pick two.

#72

I guess my point was that a lot of people keep saying “piggy bad” and “re-map good” but I’m not fully understanding why exactly. I’m under the impression that with this particular “piggy” on it’s factory settings that the S4’s ECU is keeping everything within safe parameters while providing a nice boost in power…maybe I’m missing something?

I understand if you mess with the settings to try and achieve more power (especially on lower octane fuel) you could potentially F’up your engine.

#73

  1. Follow your own advice. Buy the car with the performance baked in by the OEM.

  2. The piggyback concept is not unique to Audi’s or S4’s. No one is going to take the time to explain something that can be done with google and a couple keystrokes. Do your own homework before you start asking for generic answers to generic questions.

http://lmgtfy.com/?q=why+are+piggyback+ecu's+bad%3F

#74

Hi guys,
I figured I would register here since there is talk about the piggy back I have. I certainly can’t go into philosophical issues of how much is enough to spend on mods or the age old piggy back versus reflash debate which may as well go along with what is the best motor oil or what is the best way to break in your car lol.

I would be happy, however, to answer any technical, performance, or safety aspects of the piggy back I have on my car now. It seems some may have the misconceived idea that the car is somehow running unsafe with a piggy back or that it could somehow be running better if it had been flash tuned. I’d be happy to go into that with you.

Take care,

Mike

#75

I think if you really read the entire thread (both here and on AZ), you’ll have a pretty good perspective on what it’s all about. There is a lot more there than “piggy bad” and “re-flash good” as you are stating, but anyone with any real tuning knowledge is going to recommend a flashed tune every time. One or two internet superheroes aren’t going to change that.

I’m almost hesitant to call this a piggy-back as it is so much more basic than your average, but my opinion has not changed. The (very rudimentary in this case) Chipwerkes can offer a modest bump in performance, it’s low priced, and will likely avoid TD1 designation unless there is a catastrophic failure. That’s what you get. It’s also pretty easy to see that you can very possibly have some drivability issues, quality issues, CEL or other codes, or a lack of performance increase (especially at higher elevations). It looks like about half the users have reported some “issue” however you want to define that.

It’s pretty comical that it is being compared to a stage 1 tune in that A) so much more goes into a flashed tune, and B) most people that get a flashed tune go stage 2. I stated this in the AZ thread in an indirect way… sure you may get 90% of the performance of a stage 1 tune, but you are missing so much more than just that additional 10% in performance. I told the OP this, but he loses credibility with anyone that has more than 5 functioning brain cells when he either attacks flashed tunes, or makes the CW out as a better option. Take the CW box for what it is, and stick to that. There is no magic pill. If it was that easy, or it was so much better, it would have been done sometime in the first 6 years the platform existed. Chipwerkes makes a similar product for 2000 other vehicles. Do you really think they stumbled upon something no one else had figured out?

If you are OK with the above, go for it. Just don’t expect anyone with any tuning knowledge to recommend it to you. As others have said, you get what you pay for. Every tuning option for this platform is overpriced, so if you can justify a box with $20 worth of hardware, a couple hours of engineering work, and a 50% success rate–for $400, then maybe it is for you.

#76

Mike, I don’t think anyone here has a misconception about how it works or how safe it is. I hate this saying, but it is what it is though…

My only issue with what you have done, and I stated this above and in your AZ thread, is trying to compare it to a stage 1 or flashed tune. You are going to lose credibility with anyone that understands what goes into tuning this platform. There are a lot of people on AZ that will let that slide. No doubt, a flashed tune isn’t for everyone due to cost, TD1, or whatever other issues they have had (that mostly would apply to some 2014-15 models). Stick to talking about what the CW is, and you’ll be fine.

I’ve seen enough logs to say that it looks really good on some cars, and pretty average to crappy on others. Combine that with some of the other issues reported (albeit, most pretty minor), and I think it’s safe to say it’s about what you’d expect out of a product like this.

#77

Yes I definitely wouldnt claim the Chipwerke is better than a flash tune because that would be a very general statement. I mean, which flash tune are you talking about? Are you talking about the first Revo tune that disabled safeguards and blew motors? Heck yes it is better. Is it better than the version 1 giac for facelift cars that made no power? Heck yeah. Is it better than the facelift APR that didnt make as much power on my car? Yup. Is it better than someones tune who is knocking 8 degrees? Could be. Is it better than someone with a dialed in GIAC Stage 2 that is logging out safely and making 120hp? Hell no it isnt :slight_smile:

Here is what I can tell you about the Chipwerke factually though.

  1. It offers more performance than the APR stage 1 tune for my 2015 S4. Not 90% of the performance. More like 120% of the performance. Also cool to see is the power under the curve. It is not just top end power. We are talking significant torque gains down to 3000rpm.

  2. My car logs zero knock retard on the factory B1 settings. Zero. Yummy. If you are after unbiased data you may want to ask other people for their logs of knock and make your own call.

  3. My car is not showing unsafe timing like some earlier Revo cars. The timing looks spot on for what we would want to see.

  4. My AFR are factory stock. There is no fuel dumping at 3000rpm. It is a nice progressive afr. More like the current GIAC curve.

  5. My exhaust gas temps are inline with what should be expected and not significantly higher than a stock S4.

So is this device crude and inexpensive? Sure. I’m loving it though :slight_smile:

Mike

#78

Mike, the more you post, the more I’m convinced this is a sales pitch.

#79

Well all I am doing is posting my raw and unbiased data. I could care less if people buy the device. It won’t make me any money. I have a job already and it is not in the automotive field.

It is really cool to find something somewhat undiscovered (only the A6 people had tried it) that works well and it is pretty cool seeing other people have positive results but thats all I get out of it. Same thing when I reviewed APR software really positively on the B7 A4. It was just me posting the results. Yes it was cool to see other people have good experiences with it too.

Mike

#80

No one is running the older Revo tunes, so why even bring that up? Seriously, not one single person… The only legit case of a flashed tune having issues at this point is APR on some of the newer 2014-2015 models. That should be addressed in their forthcoming release. Other than that, there are 5 years of logs, reliability data, dynos, and 1/4 times to back up what the flashed tunes have done on literally 1000’s of cars. You can’t deny that, and you seem to be conveniently overlooking most of those facts when you start comparing your car to all of that data.

I don’t doubt some of the things you have posted about your car. However, we’ve seen logs from basically four scenarios at this point. You’re basically ignoring what happened in the three others; on top of all the other drivability issues being reported. No other log looked that great in terms of timing. So, we are 50/50 at best as far as how the timing looks (your logs and Retell’s logs with a healthy mix of E85 looked good, the other two logs looked below average). We haven’t seen AFR or EGT from any other good log except yours.

Again, take it for what it is, and don’t try to make it out to be something it is not. I don’t doubt you are happy for the reasons you point out, but try to take a more realistic view of what is happening across the board.