That was Kai’s car. He has run an 11.8@119 before IIRC
New personal best times for Pete and Kai tonight
-1260 DA
2001 B5 S4, KO4s, ASP Tune, 60 lb injectors, custom 3 inch exhaust, MS109 race gas, 6MT
60-130 8.88s!!!
2010 GIAC Stage 1, Roc Euro Intake, AWE Tuning exhaust, Stoptech BBK, 19x9.5 AG M310 wheels, 1/4th tank VP 100 race gas, 6MT
60-130 10.75s!!!
First- Holy Shit the B5 S4 is f’in quick. It could be quicker too which is scary part with a faster shift.
Great job by Pete tonight. He took advantage of an incredible 3rd to 4th shift and a nice little section of decline to beat my time.
Breakdown of my run vs Pete’s
Graphs…
Pete’s run (slightly downhill… starts as 1.32% decline to bottom and then slopes up to end total decline of 0.40%)
http://i350.photobucket.com/albums/q421/tsivas2727/pete100giac.jpg
My run (slightly uphill 0.10% incline)
http://i350.photobucket.com/albums/q421/tsivas2727/tsivas100apr.jpg
Accel comparo
Mine APR Stage 2
40mph 0s
50mph 1.01s
60mph 2.02s
70mph 3.02s
80mph 4.10s
90mph 5.29s**
100mph 7.21s**
110mph 8.86s
120mph 10.74s
130mph 12.79s
Pete GIAC Stage 1
40mph 0s
50mph 1.14s
60mph 2.04s
70mph 3.07s
80mph 4.25s
90mph 5.58s**
100mph 7.20s**
110mph 8.93s
120mph 10.78s
130mph 12.79s
So 40-90 mph (just 3rd gear in both cars) APR Stage 2 car is about 0.29 secs faster than the GIAC car (5.29s vs 5.58s). This is where the pulley takes advantage and the difference can be seen. In fact, I pulled up my 3rd gear 93 pump 40-90mph time and it was 5.56 secs compared to Pete’s 5.58s on 100 octane.
You see it again in same gear 60-90 time where both cars are in full power (3.27s vs 3.54s) Pete is an incredible shifter and makes up that time in the 3rd to 4th shift as seen by the ** on both runs. The ** 90-100mph time with the shift included is 1.92s for me vs 1.62s for Pete or 0.3secs faster. 4th gear 100-130mph in both cars is about same (5.58 vs 5.59s) and so we see again… timing of GIAC over boost of APR in higher revs like I mentioned in my data logging post and we saw on dyno also. I didn’t get a chance to log the GIAC car on 100 though. It was a hurried night and ran out of time.
In the end I think that the difference between a stage 2 APR car and a stage 1 GIAC car is about 0.29-0.3secs in the testing we have done taking shifting differences between two drivers out of the equation. Pete is making up all of that time with that nice third to fourth shift. Not that I am a bad shifter… he is just ridiculously fast.
I might have him run my car for an even better comparison and use the exact same strip of road without an incline next time. But we should see a 10.4ish time if I am correct.
Nice work once again Tsivas… Cars are flying really… That B5 is insane… Kai’s car is the blue one that was at the dragstrip last weekend? really wonder what my car would do in those conditions on your course… thanks for sharing all the data and if you get logs I would love to review them…
The B5 is great up top. They really fly away in 3rd-4th gears.
That B5 is not that insane though at all. Primetime, your car would walk him to the 1/8th mile post and then he’d get you on the big end. That’s what a K04 car should be doing on pump gas frankly. For perspective, member S6atron has a B5 S4 that ran 11.7 @ 125 on his pump gas file (not tuned for meth or race or anything, and count vohn was trying to protect the motor, so was shutting the throttle and made boost come in real late). His car on a pump file would put a good beating on Kai’s race gas 60-130 but would probably lose a bit to him from 0-60 mph. Kai is on race gas too don’t forget, and is tuned for it. That’s a big difference maker on the B5.
When you start pushing B5 on race gas on K04 turbos (or E85) you should see times in the very low 11s at 125 if everything is sorted. When you run race on RS6r sized turbos, you start to see trap speeds really climb (which would translate into some seirous 60-130 times). We are often so impressed by 11 second B5 S4 times because the guys have been brainwashed into ignoring the quarter mile…so they start being accepting of shitty tuning. When an 11 second car comes along, like the 034 single turbo car that was supposedly making 500+whp on race gas…and went 11.8 @ 118, they all blow their load. That’s frankly not remotely impressive, and the performance isn’t at all what we’d expect from that dyno. but they were universally praised lol.
I think a Tial 770 car on race gas + meth + built motor (kitchen sink thrown at it really) did a 60-130 time around 5 seconds flat. They fly up top. Of course that same car ran 12.something @ 128 at the dragstrip. Tuning really held the car back when you ask it/him to move through the gears.
That’s why I like the dragstrip…shows us what the car will do through 1-2-3-4 (and 5 for fast cars) gears, not just by parking it in one gear and stomping the gas. 60-130 hides a lot of warts that a tuner doesn’t want you to see. The 1/4 mile shines a spotlight on them. When you see a tuning company rebelling against the quarter mile, it’s always because they frankly aren’t that good. The good guys welcome all challenges because they know how to make a car do well in all of these tests.
Saki- I don’t know much about the B5’s. Interesting stuff.
in reality, I don’t even think Kai would beat primetime at the big end either in hindsight. They’d be pretty close.
how accurate are those vboxes? i dont understand how a car that traps 120 is 3 seconds quicker 60-130 than a car that traps 119? is a turbo’s rubber band effect making them read better than they really are almost like the dynolicious app for the iphone. with a strong enough launch the one time i had dynolicious read that i had over 400 hp in my stock urs6 when in reality it had about 220.not sure how they work but something is up
They use the accelerometer in the phone.
http://electronics.howstuffworks.com/iphone-accelerometer.htm
vbox is pretty accurate. It uses GPS so it doesn’t use a lame ass accelerometer in a phone. This is not worth comparing accuracy…dynolicious is a toy. pbox/vbox is a scientific tool trusted by periodicals when measuring performance of products offered by multi billion dollar companies who have massive teams of lawyers. If they were posting bad performance data they would be sued into oblivion.
What car trapped 120 and what car trapped 119? I am not sure what cars you’re referring to. The only B8 that trapped 119 was 81bear at our track but he has not been tested on the pbox ever.
Kai vs. primetime (who trapped 116-117)? or Kai vs. auditude (who never trapped anywhere near 119…more like 112 actually)?
As for trap speeds measured on vbox, they don’t measure trap speeds the way the dragstrip does…they measure the terminal speed at the finish line. The dragstrip measures your average speed over the final 66 feet of the track. That is usually a 1.2-1.4 MPH difference.
Trapping 120 is nice, but the acceleration of a B5 S4 like Kai’s car as it hits the finish line at the dragstrip is FAR greater than that of the B8 S4. Post up primetime’s best timeslip and Kai’s best timeslip and I think you’ll see the B5 is raping the B8 up top. The B8 gets a huge lead on the B5 at the start though (through gears 1 and 2 and the start of 3rd), but the B5 races back to catch him by the quarter mile.
if they keep going the B5 starts putting bus lengths on the B8.
From trap speed at 116 vs. 120, that’s already a big difference in acceleration. When the TVS1320 is starting to struggle, the K04 car on race fuel is just getting excited. From 120-130 the B5 rips. From 116-130 the B8 takes far longer.
Saki, Agreed on the drag race reference about the B5 passing me up top, but probably not until after the traps… Like you though most of my driving is done under 100mph so I really prefer to have a car I can launch and accelerate quickly to a speed that even if done on the street won’t put me in jail… 60-130 is fun no doubt and a good metric but means far less to me than 0-60(the meangingless one to Auditude) or 1/4 mile et and trap… Just my useless .02! LOL…
Also, I trapped 119.46, 119.28,and 119.26 last time at the strip… several hig 118’s as well… DA was great obviously and this was running the Shell URT Advanced fuel on 104 tune, so not my typical setup which is more in line for 117-118…
^^ I’d like to see what his slip looks like compared to some of the faster B8’s.
What makes the B8 have such an advantage over the B5 downlow? Is it lack of boost? if so, has anyone looked at some sort of “boost off the line”? I always thought the K04’s were relatively small turbos maybe the 770’s could beinefficientit off of some sort of “boost off the line”.
B8 DSG cars sprint off the line. great gearing, automatic, traction at launch, insta shifts, instaboost and no lag…all great things.
Frankly the B8 6MT cars are not all that awesome at the dragstrip. They suffer from a gearing change, launch problems, and the shift lag. Look at the list and you’ll see the MT cars don’t really move the needle.
im going by primetime’s trap of 119.xx, thats awfully close to the 120 of that b5. also the DA for the b5 was a crap ton better.
still with the vbox, 130 is 130 and at the strip 120 is 120. i would imagine they would be so much closer if not the b8 should be pulling up top if the da is the same. it just doesnt make sense to me, does that mean prime can go 8.xx 60-130 like the b5 in that DA? almost 3 seconds is a lot to make up
I guess we’re now assuming the two tracks are identical? If you mention the DA disadvantage for primetime, you should mention that his track is on a slightl decline whereas ATCO is dead flat as is the ‘test track’ that these guys use to log their cars.
Further, primetime trapped 117 on his best run on the list.
Bear, The B8’s biggest advantage is the tranny and gearing that Audi put in the B8’s… B8.5’s not so much… With the tight ratios and almost seemless shifts these cars get in and stay in the powerband very well… if you watch some of my gopros after the launch the rpm’s stay between 5k and 7k the entire time… Not to mention us cutting 1.6x - 1.7x 60’s… Also, DSG is obviously easier to drive than a manual so unless it’s Auditude driving we should be OK… lol
http://audirevolution.net/forum/index.php?topic=1285.0
he went 119 there
plus kai had gone to englishtown, a good well prepped sea level track. not sure about prime’s
im just saying, a -1xxx da advantage over prime could easily offset that slight decline. i dont know, the traps are close, 3 seconds is not, thats all im saying
Let’s clarify a few things:
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Kai was at Englishtown Saturday and everyone bitched that the prep was non-existent actually. it was not good. His best 60’ was 1.9-2.0 seconds, when he has previously seen 1.7 times. If he was accelerating rather than spinning tires, who knows what his trap would be.
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Kai went 121 not 120, and in the past has gone 122 I believe (since you’re cherry picking primetime’s best)
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primetime went 119 in 220 feet of density altitude. Kai went 121 in -800 to -900 feet
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when primetime trapped 119 it was at the track that GPS said had a 15 or 17 foot decline in it over the 1320 foot run…so although the DA was better for Kai, there’s certainly evidence that primetime’s numbers had some help that Kai didn’t
If you’re saying these numbers don’t add up, I think it makes no sense to distrust the pbox while assuming the 2 dragstrips in question are identical. You can’t say ‘the pbox (same pbox unit in fact for both Kai and primetime) numbers don’t add up because on two different dragstrips the cars looked similar’. The only consistent thing we have to look at is the pbox data generated by the very same pbox which tested both cars.
On top of that, even if you did just look at the timeslips from two different tracks, there is a 3 MPH discrepency in trap speeds that reflects the greater acceleration of the B5 car.
working on getting Kai’s timeslips. He says he has at home.
from experience, a better 60 doesnt always equate to a better trap. you are acting like a 1.9 - 2.0 is like he is planted there. his et will obviously go down but traps will most likely stay the same.
kai in the past i believe went 118-119 if i remember correctly from what tsivas or someone else mentioned. plus i dont see 121 anywhere, this is all i see. correct me if im wrong
like i said -1xxx advantage. that is quite a sizeable advantage just as is 15 feet over a 1320 foot strip. i just implied that their times are awfully close yet with the vbox they are awfully apart, thats what doesnt make sense for me. you cant discount that the s4 is moving. also prime isnt the only guy to trap 119, that shows that the potential is there even at other tracks given the condition so to say he trapped 119 because there is a drop off really discredits the potential of his car. what if in the same DA prime goes 120-121? considering his car is much more consistent than kai’s it is a possibility. at that point if kai ever did trap 122, you are at a 1 mph advantage for kai but yet that somehow stretches to 3 seconds for 60-130. im just saying, 3 seconds is an eternity and does not translate on the track or on the road. the only thing i could think of is kai’s 60-130 run was done at an extreme decline. you fail to mention anything about that since you are so quick to discredit prime’s car and defend the b5. there is potential both cars could be very close at the same track on the same day same da. at that point, either kai’s 8.88 is skeptical or prime can do a lot better than 11.6 60-130
The vbox times aren’t skeptical. You approach the vbox runs in a different way. It’s usually one shift (3rd to 4th) and he probably brake boosts 3rd down low.
Up top over 90-100 (or fourth gear on), Kai’s B5 S4 on MS109 will mop any of the B8s that we have tested.
Prime can do much better time (than 11.06s) if he ran at sea level and in our DA’s.