Lots of cars top out at 150mph on the back straight at Mosport…you just gotta find the right venue. Compared to the circuit, the actual act of drag racing is a little boring, getting the slip is more exciting than the production of the slip sometimes. Most fun I’ve had during an actual run was turning back and looking at saki when he mis-shifted, I gave him a digit and he was shaking his fist at me… The driving itself wasn’t really requiring all of our concentration…
Compare this 335 run to any fast GTR, I dunno, looks kinda dicey to me at the traps at 130. Probably needs new tie rods by the looks of it. Maybe a little more exciting, i guess, but I can see why some 10-second cars need a cage, and it’s hard to discriminate.
Um get with the times, it’s 10.99 now. Maybe it’s still 11.49 in Canada but they changed it here because new cars like the gtr out of the box were going so quick
I’m fixated on pt and 81’s times because that’s all I have. I’ve been comparing both pt’s 60-130 and 1/4 mile to Kai’s not sure what you have missed. It seems like you are not reading my entire posts or you are getting that old
As for prime’s da during his pbox times, maybe that shows the b8 is a lot stronger up top than you give credit to. Again I’ll say, it would be nice to see everyone do it at the same place same day but that’s not going to happen. Until them I think 8.8 is way too fast for what he’s putting down at the strip. I trust the track much more than that pbox…just saying
Also - don’t forget - if u look at Kai’s quarter mile runs he ran at E-town with the vbox recording them at same time … U will see that he shifts at a very generous 0.5-0.6 seconds for most of the throws. It might be even more for the second to third gear shift. So 3 shifts for the quarter mile vs one 3rd to 4th shift with brake boost for the 60-130 pull. Add that to the time it makes up on the B8 from 117-130mph or 120-130 mph as seen compared to my car and prime’s and I think we can see where the times are hiding.
Realistically Kai’s car should be running low 11s with just a driver swap/faster shifter (.2-.3 sec shifts) on the day he went. Maybe even better if he wasn’t doing 2.0s 60ft times that day.
If you think the b8 has the same top end beyond 100 mph as a k04 on race gas, I will have to disagree, and I will assume that have lost your fucking mind lol.
Read my post and stop making this so antagonistic. B8 never lose. Sorry d you are right.
I don’t think he’s on the B8 side so much as he’s trying to make sense of the 3 second difference we are seeing between 120-130 mph. The most common explanation is that the K04’s are monsters up top on race gas however, when comparing traps at the strip (not the car in question but another well sorted B5) it seems they may not have as much advantage as we may think by the 1320 (who knows). Personally, I have zero experience with the B5 k04 turbo’s so I can’t comment on which I think is faster up top however, I do have quite a bit of experience with the B8’s and feel the platform is still evolving. The sample range of B8’s on race gas running the 1/4, 60-130, or whatever is still way to small to say with certainty that that is what one should don with X mods on X tune with X fuel.
b8itis? far from it. b8 hatred on your end? bitterness? most likely. you completely discredit this platform and hate the fact it is doing so well with such minimal mods. sorry i moved on. i was sick of trying so hard for so little. its just nice having options for once then sitting there waiting for a single company to release something and never happen.
the numbers are there. compare 81’s car to the tial car. plus i never said that a stage 2 b8 will stick with or beat a b5 past 100, i said that prime’s car as well as 81 look awfully close and would love to see kai’s slip to compare before we make our final judgement.
you in the mean time have completely thrown the concept of DA out the window and only look at the 15 foot drop off at primes track. what about 81 though? we no longer have ONE fast b8, there are two elite ones and a few others knocking on the door. but thats not even the point, i still think that 60-130 time of kai’s is a bit off. i asked how credible a pbox is not ever even having the opportunity to use one and you jumped down my throat. 8.8 is fast, faster than some serious machines and im sorry but i do not see an asp car even on race gas that traps 120 pulling an 8.8 off. you keep bringing up “past 100 the k04 car…” yea but we are not talking 100-130 times, we are talking 60-130. what is the b5 between 60-100? i thought that is where the k04 cars shine? guess not when you are trying to prove a point that the b8 is shit
through shifting yes he should pick up a few mph power shifting the car especially staying in boost by not letting the throttle close. as for the 60 foot, most likely not. if he cuts a 1.8 he should cut a few tenths off his et
OK, let’s focus on facts D. Nevermind the insecure ‘you hate my car waaaaah’ bullshit when someone posts some simple facts to answer your question. Do you want to focus on facts? If so, read on. If not, I will happily tear you to shreds in the war room if you want to have an insult party (which you have already started). Just let me know when you want to start.
Remember, your original question was ‘why is there such a huge pbox gap 60-130 when the two cars have such similar quarter mile times?’ You then took the fastest ever trap speed posted by primetime at a track in Ohio (in a run from 0-119 MPH), and compared it to a recent trap speed at a lacklustre track day posted by Kai at Englishtown (in a run from 0-120 mph).
You used this as the basis for questioning why the pbox time measured on primetime’s car in Ohio was slower than the time posted by Kai’s car on a flat stretch of sea level road in Long Island…when both cars went from 60-130 (a.k.a. not 0-120).
You then said that I have ignored density altitude, that I hate the B8, that I am bitter that the B8 is so great (funny). etc.
The facts? I have said, in this thread:
let’s focus on the pbox data discrepency, rather than the similaririties in the quarter mile. The quarter mile test is not the same as the 60-130 test for two cars who don’t trap 130…and involves a lot more potential for Kai’s tune or driving to hurt his acceleration than the 60-130. I am by no means saying that the 60-130 is a great benchmark…I am just trying to help you understand why this big gap exists. The 60-130 covers up a lot of warts that the quarter mile exposes. Can’t shift? quarter mile exposes it. Tuner can’t dial in throttle? quarter mile exposes it. Tuner focuses on in gear dyno power rather than real world accelerating driving dynamics? quarter mile exposes it.
Kai is, according to the data, not a great shifter…and ASP as we all know is not a great tuner. So very quickly we see there is potential for problems in his time…whereas primetime has a point and shoot DSG B8 with a good tune. Awesome and consistent.
Let’s move deeper…the 60-130 involves 1 gear shift for the B5. No launch to rob him of momemntum. No 1-2, 2-3 shift to rob him of momentum. AND most important, it pushes both cars to 130 mph, whereas the quarter mile ends at around 120. These two tests are fraught with potential differences in data.
the density altitude when primetime ran the pbox runs was terrible compared to the density altitude when Kai ran the pbox. I said it way above that the 3 second gap you keep harping on would probably not be so big if both guys ran in equal conditions. You seem to have clued in to this here…but then got lost in the 'you hate the B8 bullshit.
there is still a gap…and a large one…between the two cars. We have seen all the races. Stage 2 B8 S4s vs. well sorted stage III B5 S4s on race gas has always ended with a big gap between the cars. I am not talking stage III minus B5 high school kids on stock intercoolers and fueling because they haven’t saved the money to follow through. I am talking cars like Kai’s Elite shop car which will have left no stones unturned on maintenance and modlist. These races are not close when they go to higher speeds. Lower speeds, it’s a lot closer. Tsivas, who has many of primetime’s power mods (APR, stage II) mods, said it was not even close when he raced Kai. Again…why are we ignoring the facts?
You seem to be forgetting what a well driven B5 S4 on K04 and race gas (or one that is driven in a test that hides poor tuning/driving) can accomplish. We have seen K04 cars trap mid 120s on PUMP gas. We have seen K04 cars trap high 120s on race gas. We have seen plenty of K04 cars run 8 or 9 second pbox verified times. Did you miss this thread? K04 car GIAC tuned running 8.8 seconds in modest density altitude of 876 feet. I guess you missed that? http://audirevolution.net/forum/index.php?topic=1317.0
You also seem to be forgetting that the guy who is vetting ALL of this data, is Tsivas27. He owns a B8 S4. Is he therefore a B8 hater? Or is it just that when the facts don’t line up to make your questioning the pbox make sense, your easiest reaction is to turn to someone who owns a different car to you and label them a hater?
I think you should really re-read the thread. From the get-go you had it in your head that I give a fuck about which car is faster, the B8 or the B5. I own a B7 RS4. As for moving on, congratulations. I bought a $50,000 B8 back in 2009. I bought my RS4 in 2011. I moved on too. If you think an RS4 owner is somehow bitter or intimidated by B8 S4 performance, you’re sadly mistaken. If you think I don’t know tha the B8 is aweosme and fast, again you’re mistaken. I run the fucking database here. I know more about your car’s performance than you. Want to test me on that? Maybe you’ve been out of the picture for too long. Anyway, then take a look at the dragstrip database and tell me what an RS4 gives up vs. a B8 S4??? Nothing. So you’ll need a new angle to explain this. Here’s one: Maybe I’m just talking about the facts?
The data shows that Kai was quite a bit faster through the lower speeds, and way faster through the higher speeds than both primetime at DA 1000+ and your car at DA same as when Kai ran.
Therefore the data must be wrong, and you are by default a B8 hater, and are bitter that the B8 is doing so well.
Regards
Sakimano
p.s. any chance primetime let off a little just before 130? He is faster than your car up until 120-130, where you make up a boatload of time
Lol nah I love all platforms. Just reporting what I have on my SD card.
Maybe dsg has to shift at that speed? I know it shifts ridiculously fast- but maybe the shift bumps it down in powerband also?
I just have to ride out fourth. Ill try and rerun with some faster shifts too. It’s just sometimes I try and shift too fast and it does that hang up in the revs thing people have experienced.
My 60-100, or specifically 90-100 time is slower than it should be. Pete makes up the 0.3 sec lead I had over him in that 3rd-4th shift alone.
Theoretically, we should see me run a 10.4ish time in same conditions/race gas with a better shift.
The way it looks to me is that Kai actually picks up most of his time at 100mph mark because Tsivas is granny shifting! (j/k’ing) and as speeds increase over 100mph the net delta increase between times is actually negative (i.e. Tsivas closing the gap). Maybe closing the gap isn’t the right phrase lets say he’s slowing the bleeding…
I might be granny shifting but so is Kai based on his graph. I thought I shifted pretty decent but I def have room to improve. I’ll try some more runs next week.
Oh I don’t mind the granny shifting term. I have data on some others on these forums though. we should have a granny shifting anonymous subforum. Lol.
I follow your analysis sort of. Isn’t the net delta additive? I see less diff between the 10mph increments between the two cars in third gear and a much bigger difference in fourth.
‘70’ = 60-70 the delta is 0.18
‘80’ = 70-80 the delta is 0.19
the total delta from 60-80 is 0.37
Kai actually picks up 6 tenths overthe first 40 MPH from 60-100 mph vs tsivas, then another 6 tenths in only 20 MPH from 100-120…then he has a shift just before 130 (unless his rev limiter is raised allowing him to rev out to 7300 or so), resulting in him ‘only’ gaining 2 tenths in the final 10 MPH.
I understand it is cumulative but what I’m looking at is whether Kai is continuing to increase the gap at an accelerating rate as I imagine would be the case if his car really shines up-top over Tsivas car (i.e. as the speed increases not only should the gap increase but also the rate at which the gap grows should increase (I’ve been calling that “Net Delta increase” which is probably not appropriately descriptive)). It looks to me that yes the gap increases as the speeds increase but not at a consistently upward linear amount.
He gains 6 tenths in the first 40 mph
He gains 6 tenths in the next 20 mph
He gains 2 tenths from 120-130, likely due to a shift at 128 or so
Not sure what you’re looking for but it appears that he is boatracing Tsivas up top from that data. Tsivas was faster than primetime’s old 60-130 run (PT had worse weather though). The ‘delta’ is getting bigger every 10 mph they go faster. Delta is pretty clear…and your net delta increase is too. Don’t forget you’re looking at the delta of the delta…which is very misleading. Despite it, it’s still increasing. If he is gaining 2 tenths every 10 mph, that is a HUGE difference. If he is gaining on that 2 tenths…that is pretty amazing.
In street racing terminology, this is bus lengths. Football field delta.
0-60 mph, they would be barely a car apart…and I’m not sure who would be in front.
steadily increasing delta other than a hiccup at 100-110 and then the 120-130 shift impaired gap (although it’s still 0.24 seconds delta in the final 10 mph…which is higher than the first 10mph from 60-70
Am I in the twilight fucking zone here? Feels like someone is punking me.
The driving itself wasn’t really requiring all of our concentration…