Is it just me, or are you putting words in his mouth?
[quote=westwest’s actual quote]I still see no reason to go wider than 255 on the S4 with a street tire.
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he went on to say
[quote=westwest’s actual quote, continued] With a sticky tire under 200 treadwear or a race tire with barely any tread, you get loads more traction than stock (even going down to 245). Unlike a high horsepower RWD drive car, the S4 doesn’t break traction necessitating wider rears. I think it does better in accelerating and braking performance with a narrower, lighter setup.
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His argument is that vs. a traditional street tire in a monster width, he feels a lighter cup tire at a more ‘normal’ street width provides greater or equal traction…and combined with the lighter weight and reduced unsprung rotational mass, the other performance beits make it the best choice.
He said all of that above.
I think you guys need to end the witchhunt. No offense, but this isn’t AZ. You won’t get a free meme for shitting on someone’s opinion here. You’ll be asked why.
While AZ is a football stadium full of drunk rowdys having a freak out and yelling at something as a giant group, AR is more like the sitting area in the lounge of a private club, where you are talking to people, not yelling in unison with thousands of others.
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I wrote that on a phone where I couldn’t scroll up, what he said and how I quoted it are functionally the same thing. His statement is actually stronger than what I quoted.
His argument is that vs. a traditional street tire in a monster width, he feels a lighter cup tire at a more ‘normal’ street width provides greater or equal traction…and combined with the lighter weight and reduced unsprung rotational mass, the other performance beits make it the best choice.
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Not sure how larger than 255 is a “monster” width, that is the factory spec tire on the 19" wheels. What he has is not a “normal” street width, it is less than the factory A/S 245 18" size and his tires are 91 load rated vs factory minimum 93.
We were talking about r-comp tires in wide widths and he came in with that. I’m not sure why he’s arguing about his 235 cup tires vs 255+ street tires, but I assumed he was entering the debate at hand. In any case, I would say running a wide street tire would beit even more important at a road course.
Point is, guys get PhD’s on tire dynamics and west summarizes why he is correct in 3 sentences. No counter point, no consideration of other factors, just simply west is right.
End the witchhunt? He has repeatedly dropped asinine junk on the AZ boards…when I attempted to debate him there, all I got was meme’s and junk from him, never acknowledgment of anything I said. You of all people seem to hold grudges against people who post BS. I gave him credit for his original informative posts, but other than that…I have no idea why you’re defending him. He obviously has his posts more scrutinized than most, but that doesn’t change how this last post was filled with assumptions and no real critical thinking.
If you go to any track, a Pilot Sport Cup 2 tolerates the heat and pressure much better than a PSS. It’s a streetable compound just a dose more potent than the PSS, and has great wet traction. Several 2015 model cars come with it as OEM equipment, including the Corvette and the 911. I think a few of the hybrid $900k supercars also use it. I don’t really regard this tire as a slick or something I use to cheat 6 seconds off of my laps. I didn’t see that effect at all. What I noticed is it’s more compliant in stopping the car when the tires are hot. If you like stopping, you should look at this tire. Then make the agonizing choice about whether to spend $600 a tire going Corvette width, or $400 a tire to go A4 width.
I’ve never been in a spin at the track and said to myself “well if I had 265’s that would have gone differently”.
I like the 25.3" height. If you want to go 18" this sounds great. But all of the new tire tech has moved to 19" and 20". This Yokohama looks cheap at just over $300 but it’s a 60 treadwear rating. $400 for the PSC2 gets you a 180 treadwear rating.
The psc2 doesn’t come in 18, but the psc does. 80 tread wear vs 60 for the Yokohama. But I’ll be changing these at the track, so heat cycles should be the more important measure.
They look cheap because 18" tires are a lot cheaper.
My reasoning on going r-comp is to stop destroying my street tires. My sidewall is dying but tread is fine underneath. So now I’m pretty much forced to dismount and remount the tires for the track. Not to mention, I think I bent a wheel at Waterford. I wanted to do the “never mess with it setup”, but it seems like that had some compromise.
So my thinking is grab a second set of tires/wheels, so that I get better longevity overall, and don’t risk needing to end a track day early and driving back 200 mi on a boot.
I’m still a novice/intermediate driver, so I hope the rcomps don’t slow down my development. My end goal is still to pick up a track car eventually, at which point I’ll try to flip my setup for 50 cents on the dollar.
he didn’t say it’s wasteful. He said ‘I don’t see the point’. That’s not strong language at all. Show him the point. Otherwise, realise that it’s just his opinion.
nobody said ‘larger than 255 is monster’. You guys were talking 275, and west said he finds the grip of a Cup tire in a stock or smaller than stock width matches performance of a much wider width street tire…yet is lighter, more nimble, enables better acceleration (and is likely cheaper as a bonus). Yes, 275 is monster wide. That’s very very wide on a street car, especially an AWD street car when it’s 4x275. Add up the contact patch from any factory supercar and you’ll see 4x275 is actually pretty big. For example here’s the tire specs from the Gallardo in a car&driver road test…Pirelli P Zero Rosso; F: 235/35YR-19, R: 295/30YR-19. Yes, 275x4 is monster width. Especially for an AWD Audi with trick differentials.
sure west posted some retarded shit up on audizine. Great. Don’t forget, a) this isn’t audizine and b) this post by him isn’t retarded. I think what he is saying is making a lot of sense.
Maybe tone it down…just accept that someone who was a past troll-freak might have something to offer. Who has more track days on their car between the two of you? Ever think he might have some experience?
I used to get into arguments with RS4 owners all the time about shit, for example optimal shift points on the RS4. My experience, in being the fastest stock RS4 EVER was that shifting before redline was better than shifting on the limiter. I had at the time about 50-60 dragstrip passes on my RS4 (more since) and based my comment on experience…but hey what do I know. Want to know what they would say? ‘well you were banned from audizine’.
That has an impact on my understanding on producing the fastest acceleration from an RS4…because I was banned from Audizine for calling out APR? lol. It’s not apples to apples, but discounting someone’s information/experience/opinion because of other shit that has NOTHING to do with that opinion makes very little sense. I used to (and still do) say something about people who flatly reject others’ experience and advice in order to support their own agenda, whatever it may be. ‘Let them be slow’.
Stronger as in logically stronger, as in he said “no reason to run larger than 255 street tire” which is saying something stronger than just r-comp tires, which is what we were debating.
You didn’t rebut anything I said and am just considering me “angry”. Not sure wtf a 3000lb supercar with a completely different weight distribution has to do with the topic at hand. I was talking about a 265/35R18 tire.
He is an instructor with tons more track time than me, but that doesn’t absolve him from posting factual information.
No idea what the rant in the last 2 paragraphs is about.
The problem with street tires on the track is the sidewall get’s a little bit squishy. I’m wondering how much a proper suspension set up will affect that (I now have 1.7 degrees negative camber up front).
I’m running 285 tires (only choice available at the time - 275 is stock) and they rolled quite a bit at Laguna Seca (yay corkscrew!)
I agree with you about the side wall. What camber settings are you at?
I find for my car at least, going to a track with sharp corners like Shannonville Really Eats up my tires faster, but at a more high speed and less sharp corners like mosport, but tires are fine. I find that the sharp corners is what really kills my tires.
I only track 3-4 times a year so far, so I don’t really see any benefit of me getting another set of wheels and tires and spending the effort lugging them around, so unless I do more track days I’m prolly gonna be sticking with one set.
I personally find going with a Street tire I learn a lot more. You can prolly gain lap times much easier with a grippier tire, but I think it’s more fun, challenging and skillful to be driving the same lap times as an R compound with a street tire.
I’m currently at 1.8 front and 1.5 rear I believe. Definitely considering the west west school of alignment, but I’ll stay neutral with front toe.
I likewise found tire wear pretty minimal at grattan and mid Ohio, while gingerman and Waterford absolutely destroyed my tires.
I don’t see carrying in tires as too much of a burden, especially because now I see rotating tires between days at a multi-day de as a smart move (lots of the experienced guys recommend this). Most tracks I go to require a hotel fwiw.
The bigger issue to me is dropping 2400 on a second setup, which one assumes will get maybe 800 second hand once you’re done with it. But if it means not needing to replace daily driven pss tires after 5k vs 20k street miles, then it might be worth it. Not to mention the stress of knowing you’re tracking some tires that are close to chording.
Interesting, I am literally opposite of you, running 1.4/1.7 front (Dont have control arms), and 1.8 rear. My Bilstein PSS10s are set 7 front 4 rear, and with the eurocode sways, I can get my tail to slide out a bit sometimes.
Honestly, don’t take rear camber as correct…completely off the top of my head. The OE springs dropped the car and then I had an alignment to bring everything within spec. This was before I even thought about tracking the car lol
My car is Daily driven, and it’s corner balanced. Personal preference, but I love my ramps and corners throughout my daily drive, and I like having my car in one setting 24/7 so I can get used to it throughout my days and know it well.
Not sure I know a single person who doesn’t like ramps and corners in their daily driver.
My point is obsessing over alignment specs and tire sidewall flex on a DD – is energy and $$ spent unwisely.
I am no expert in setting up an automobile, but i have learned through natural progression. Ive tried to setup a daily driver for the track multiple times, never works. I’ve since gone to a dedicated track car, modifying from a street chassis one part at a time to full retard.
notarmed makes a valid point. I’m paying more attention to the alignment/setup on my car, but I won’t be OCD over it since it’ll progressively get out of whack by itself anyways.
Will probably figure out a good interval to just have it checked and adjusted as needed (without being overly OCD).
Still Doug, would be great if you wanted to take a spin in the RS5. Would love your opinion on the coilovers I just installed vs the one you had on the B8.5 S4.
