So a GIAC tuned car on 91 makes 404whp and 341wtq... ROTFLMAO...

B8 S4
#81

This article clearly states the baseline dyno and K04 pump fuel and race fuel dynos were preformed only days apart. The problem is that these dynos were posted before!

The stock dyno pull was preformed by GIAC on their in house dyno in the fall of 2008, (October 20th). You can see the dyno pulls first posted Here on Vortex, Here on GIAC’s news sections and here is the stock graph.

Here you can see the European car stock run and GIAC stock run overlaying identically! Even giac has showed on their own vortex post stock runs will be different between runs so it’s fishy they were identical years apart on different dynos and different cars!

European Car Stock Dyno vs GIAC’s Stock Dyno (Allow Animation to Load)

On to the K04 turbocharger system, the 91 octane K04 pump fuel pull was preformed by GIAC on their in house dyno in the winter of 2010 (February, 24th, 2010) and their race fuel pull was preformed on March, 10th, 2010. GIAC first posted this information Here on VWVortex, and you can see the graph directly Here on GIAC’s website.

Here you can see the European Car’s stock, pump and race fuel runs identically match GIAC’s stock, pump and race fuel dynos!

European Car k04, pump/race Dyno vs GIAC’s k04, pump/race Dyno (Allow Animation to Load)

http://oi44.tinypic.com/4t2azb.jpg

These dyno’s and reviews from European Car were in the “Proven” section of their magazine and are designed for readers to get a fair and accurate assessment of an independent test by an impartial third party. The tests were not independent tests as they were simply GIAC’s supplied dyno graphs. The tests were also not preformed days apart. They were actually preformed YEARS apart with the stock run in 2008 and the final modified runs in 2010.

Frankly I have everything to doubt about any claims GIAC/AWE makes towards a product/tune. Todd still continues to assert that his products are USA made despite there being a clear record of him importing tons of product in from China and from brokers like Autobahn88.

Dave
[/quote]
I’m a new forum member.

Disclosure:

I’m not a fan of crew219 or sakimano. I’ve been on a lot of forums over the years and the hidden agenda of these two guys is not very hidden to me. Basically, I think they are frustrated with their life pursuits and need to tear down the work of others to make themselves feel better. Further disclosure, I live close to AWE and have work done there on my 2010 S4.

Anyway, I’ve seen crew make this post in another forum before, and I found out about this forum when sak copied it and posted it at AW. I think crew is pretty pathetic, and sak is too for reposting it, simply because he’s trying to tear down AWE because of a possibly flawed magazine article written by european car mag. Really, dude? That is somehow AWE’s fault? That’s proof of cheating? You are pretty sad, grasping at straws so badly like that. And shame on you sak for being so petty as to cross post it like that is some sort of damning info.

Also, check out APR’s qtr mile list on Vortex. Their “$2300” K04 kit is now making similar qtr mile times and traps as AWE’s. Crew conveniently forgets to mention that, but he’s all over these forums and knows about it I am sure. Hidden agendas with you dudes. Sad. Crew, I also saw you spreading rumors that AWE was using NOS and going to a cheater track, but you don’t do that with APR now that they are doing the same results at the same track. Sad.

And I read that thread on audizine a year or so ago where APR supposedly blew the lid of AWE’s China connection. I don’t recall todd from AWE ever denying they purchased components from China, he just said that the final product was manufactured in their facility in the US. I’ve been to their location a bunch, and have gotten the tour. I’ve seen with my own two eyes a manufacturing floor with mandrel bending, CNC sawing and cutting, racks of tubes, lines of guys welding, guys polishing and grinding. That is 100% legit. I also saw boxes of raw materials like muffler tips and muffler housings. I have to guess some of those may have come from China. I also saw in that audizine thread import docs showing APR’s stuff that Corsa makes for them also comes from China, which is pretty damn funny since they started the attack.

I’ve owned audis and VWs for years. We also have a mk6 in the family. I’ve been around the forums for years. You guys claiming cheating and underhanded tactics are paranoid conspiracy theorists with nothing good in your own lives, so you have to tear down others. Grow up and create something yourself, instead of negative posts. Same old, same old. You came over to AW to spread this crap, so I had enough and tracked you down to your hole here. This forum is for all the conspiracy theorists to gather and have their fellow theorists tell them they are not crazy, even though the general public thinks you all are which is why you keep getting banned and deleted. But that’s just a sponsor and forum owner grand conspiracy against your truth campaign, right? LOL.

#82

Kyle

Thanks for the analysis. Entirely untrue unfortutely…I’m more interested in protecting forum members from tuning company tricks

If you’re naïve enough to think anyone posting about strange behaviour by a tuning company is a conspiracy theorist with an unfulfilling life I think you’re a pie in the sky optimist. I cross posted that info because awe and giac are again embroiled in a dyno controversy full of conflicting info. I asked if people had heard about it to clarify the contents. That’s it. Didn’t you read what I posted?

You probably think I was offside for tirelessly informing people about the pes b6/7 s4 supercharger kits and the vf kit. Maybe ask around for info on GSG. While you’re at it ask the b8 forum the stories of kevkev and auditude. Sounds like you’re more interested in everyone singing koombaiyah and holding hands. Only problem is the tuning world is full of broken promises and shady marketing. Without peopl asking questions people like you and I get ripped off.

I almost bought the 500 hp vf engineering supercharger kit for my b7 s4. A few guys (who post here ironically) encouraged me to wait a while as the kit appeared to deliver about 100 hp less than promised. So I saved my 8500 and waited. They were right. VF and PES have been run out of these forums now that everyone is informed. It may surprise you to learn that vf’s first rs4 kit customer, a vocal promotor of the kit on the forums was none other than 1fastS4.

So if you don’t like me, that’s fine. I’m not on forums to make e-friends. I’ve got my real life for that. I’m here to learn and where possible to help educate…and that information isn’t always roses, so if you don’t like that, you might not like this forum…an open one with no sponsor dollars pressuring the site admin to censor content.

Good luck with your car. I’m sure it will do well as the b8 mods are all pretty effective.

#83

Wow that’s some first post, Kyle! Welcome.

I think you have become misguided as to what someone’s agenda is. I don’t these guys deliberately take down other companies like this because of their own personal agenda. They do it to prevent companies like AWE pursuing their agenda to sell shit to customers that may not be value for money. It happens in every kind of industry. I frequent nerdy computer forums and it’s the same there.

There is no conspiracy theory here. Just a bunch of guys telling it like it is. We don’t gather here to circlejerk each other off, but we are free to express our opinions on products. We just want shit that works. I think we would all be stoked If AMD/GIAC/whoever stepped up and produced shit that works. And by that we mean real world driving results. Not 60-130’s or dyno sheets. Does product X makes my car go and stop better when I’m driving around town? No track queens here.

Lastly, I don’t know who the fuck you are, but to start accusing people of having no real life and having to make up for that on the forums is just sad. You lost all credibility with me for that. I’m sure you are too, but I’ve met/dealt with various members here beyond the internet forum and you’ll be disappointed to hear that they’re just normal blokes, with families, jobs and pets.

#84

@Kyle, the only thing Corsa imports from overseas are some exhaust tips. Todd grossly overstated that fact and made it seem as if Corsa was doing the same thing as him.

Keep in mind that welding a few pieces together because it would be impractical to import fully assembled pieces isn’t the same thing as welding the entire exhaust in-house.

Not only does Todd get his exhausts from China, but intakes and intercoolers as well. (side note, I have to question the sanity of anyone who would spend $300 on AWE’s B8 S4 intake, it’s a silicone hose made by Autobahn88 and a filter which probably costs them about $20 after all is said and done)

It’s unfortunate that you think Saki & I or anyone else who seeks to verify / investigate claims by a company as “pathetic”.

So are you saying that what I posted above is incorrect?

Look at the AWE claims for their GTI and check out any quarter mile calculator and see that their claims are off base. Also, APR is not putting down the same times as AWE for their K04 kit. Still .3 seconds off, not to mention the run wasn’t performed by APR themselves, it was done by a customer who has a history of getting 1/4 mile times at that track, ever since he owned his first 2007 GTI. Get your facts straight kid.

Dave

#85

i wonder how many kyleracers there are from waynesboro PA near AWE. i will have to check later to be sure but this would be funny…

http://www.srtforums.com/forums/6578168-post120.html

http://www.speeddate.com/personals-in-Waynesboro-United+States/10744494/kyle.html

http://memberimage0.speeddate.com/photos/profile/cached/120x160x1/57fdb946ad95ee15ad3f1169c6143f55.jpg

#86

Sak, I’d believe you were objective and fair if you always took the tone that you did above, instead of the mocking aggressive, insulting holier than thou tone you normally take on the forums. I’d be inclined to believe that you only cared about the truth if you hadn’t so quickly gone on the attack posting that off topic, third party, third hand “evidence” against AWE on QW given to you by a shady character like crew. Your “holy shit” self righteousness was ridiculous, considering how this was an article written by european car magazine. But, in your eyes this was deceptive cheating behavior by AWE. How does that add up?

You’re the #1 fanboy of the Sak brand. Champion of Truth and Justice (even if the facts get in the way)™. According to you, by nature ALL Tuners are crooks and out to fleece the public. In your world, it’s black and white, and not subject to interpretation or discussion. That’s why you get banned and moderated all the time. Its biased crap that you push most of the time.

[quote]@Kyle, the only thing Corsa imports from overseas are some exhaust tips. Todd grossly overstated that fact and made it seem as if Corsa was doing the same thing as him.

Keep in mind that welding a few pieces together because it would be impractical to import fully assembled pieces isn’t the same thing as welding the entire exhaust in-house.
[/quote]
Then AWE has a manufacturing floor full of machinery props and they hit the panic button every time a customer wants a tour and the neighbors come over and spring into action to pretend there’s manufacturing going on. LOL. It’s ok for APR to use china tips, but it’s not ok for AWE. I’ve seen AWE pack their own mufflers on a tour and that mandrel bender is bending every time I visit. Your agenda is showing again, crew.

[quote]Look at the AWE claims for their GTI and check out any quarter mile calculator and see that their claims are off base. Also, APR is not putting down the same times as AWE for their K04 kit. Still .3 seconds off, not to mention the run wasn’t performed by APR themselves, it was done by a customer who has a history of getting 1/4 mile times at that track, ever since he owned his first 2007 GTI. Get your facts straight kid.
[/quote]
Again, biased half truths to push your agenda. I just went back and checked that thread on Vortex, which I am sure you did too, but I came back with truth, unlike you: in fact, there is a .2 second difference and the APR car went 2mph faster.

How come you’re not even-handedly accusing this guy of NOS and a cheater track like you were when AWE set that record? Where’s the objectivity?

You and sak are legends in your own minds if you think you are Champions of Truth and Justice. You’re fanboys. I felt the need to vent when you guys went and poisoned a legit thread again on another forum. You opened the door to your hole here, and I walked on in.

Bash only the tuners who you can prove screwed over people, and then you may truly have a revolution going. Until then, you’re all seen like paranoid, hostile, crackpots by the majority of the community. Rightly so.

#87

Who do you think gave European Car dynos for a review of the AWE turbo kit?

I’m not saying that they don’t weld a few pieces together for the sake of packaging (not easy to ship fully assembled exhausts), but they certainly do not mfg it all in shop. AWE not only gets their tips from China but piping, mufflers, intercoolers, intakes. It is all very specific on the bills of lading which I will gladly have posted if you wish. There’s hardly a comparison between that practice and the one of Corsa importing tips that they weld onto their own crafted exhausts.

On my A3 AWE exhaust you could clearly see which welds were done by AWE and which were done elsewhere because there was a mixture of MIG and TIG welds on the pipes and mufflers.

I hit the wrong number. Big whoop. Objectivity comes in the fact that he is an independent tester. Like I said, he’s owned previous GTIs and has laid down many times. No reason to doubt his legitimacy or skill. That’s like coming into a B8 S4 thread and questioning primetime’s numbers when we all know that a huge factor in his overall time is his skill (even though people will argue that DSG is DSG and launch control should give everyone the same numbers).

I’ve been screwed over more than once by AWE. Do you want me to air their dirty laundry? Every time I’ve brought a legitimate complaint up to Todd, he always says that it never happens to anyone else and that it’s the “first time he’s ever heard of it”. Own an AWE exhaust? You can thank me for the clamps. Prior to my postings, Todd was using clampco hose clamps on all his exhausts, citing that it was good enough for all the Porsche exhausts he’s made.

Dave
[/quote]

#88

lol crew and I don’t even know each other. First I heard of him was this post here so I posted it up on audiworld

I think you’re trying too hard kyle. You need to get out more.

just wondering…for whom am I a fanboy? Apr? Ask arin or keith about that one (or any of the true apr fanboys) lol

anyway re the ecar article, that is basically advertising by awe. The info is all provided by the tuners. Its usually done in exchange for advertising in the hard cover magazine. I’ve run into this with my own work. Sad but true.

#89

Like I wrote above:

You’re the #1 fanboy of the Sak brand. Champion of Truth and Justice (even if the facts get in the way)™.

See, you’re doing it again. Working on assumptions and making them into facts just so you can tear down other people’s work.

I agree that something is not kosher with that article, but it makes a lot more sense that there is lazy writing by the magazine going on rather than something hinky by AWE. Without jumping to conclusions it looks like the magazine could have concocted a story about directly dyno testing the car when in fact they either scooped it up from AWE’s website or had asked AWE to give it to them. To a reasonable person not hellbent on conspiracy, it’s a big leap to assume AWE was complicit. There is a magazine writer’s name attached to that article. I recognize him from previous issues.

#90

Disclosure: you sent me a video a few years ago of a race between a VF SC car and a JHM NA car. Lol.

Dave

#91

Kyle. Like I said, welcome. Relax, read, enjoy the site and it’s banter. I really don’t care whether you love saki or not, if you don’t like what he posts, ignore him. What’s it to you if these guys wanna call out AWE/GIAC for inconsistent claims? What’s it to you if saki’s quest for the truth doesn’t agree with your version of it?

It’s just the internet, your daily life isn’t going to be affected by it. You accuse these guys of having substandard real lives and needing to make up for that with internet crusades, yet it is you who seems to be letting words on the internet affect you.

As for saki and APR - I think APR have had their fair share of internet beatdowns from him, no one is immune.

#92

sorry, that’s just how it goes with these types of periodicals. They cover one of your builds if you advertise in the magazine. You provide them information on your product you want them to promot/write about.

Anyway, good luck with your car Kyle. Say hi to Todd and the guys at AWE. Tell them to check in and discuss this here in an open forum. Sending you to fight their battles isn’t very effective.

#93

Sorry, I just can’t believe that both parties would be complicit in that sort of deception. Too much at risk there. It’s much more plausible to me that the magazine just said they did dyno testing instead of actually doing it and they just re-skinned existing dyno sheets and made up a story (print mags have no budget anymore).

In the end, neither you, me, or crew knows for sure what happened there, so it is completely unfair to start accusing a well established tuner of falsifying of all things a magazine article, that’s my point.

No one sent me here. I followed the crazy trail from AW. There was a nicely informative thread unfolding there about the new GIAC flash, and then you came in and started crapping in it claiming we were all being lied to by cheaters, just like you do a lot. I got real tired of it, clicked on the audirevolution.net link, and discovered this hole where you all sit around bashing tuners and slapping yourself on your back congratulating yourselves on how superior you are to the sheep being fleeced in the other forums. Sad.

I’m just a temporary visitor here and I think I made my point.

#94

I don’t know how to explain this to you - I don’t know anything about the article, and as you know, I posted it over there to see if others did or hear their thoughts. I do however know how the publishing world works for articles like that. The information would all have been provided by AWE. It’s pretty frigging common man. I don’t get what the shock is all about from you?

Have you got the latest copy of road and track? R&T did an article last month about a few tuner cars. They even roadtested the cars. The GMG R8 twin turbo fucking FLOPPED…and R&T said not one bad word about it. A $60,000 turbo kit on a V10 that basically resulted in zero time gains in the quarter mile (vs a stock R8 GT for example) shows that the kit is just not working. They did an article about the Stasis stuff for the B8 S4 and the MTM piggyback as well as ABT. All they printed were manufacturer’s claims (430 hp etc) and as a B8 S4 owner, I hope you know the MTM and ABT units don’t fucking work. This is advertising masquerading as journalism. This is very common.

On tv., so many people have PVRs, advertisers are less willing to pay top dollar for ad spots on 30-60 minute drama/sitcoms. So they get creative and place products in the content (for $$$). See that guy drinking a Coke on Big Bang Theory? That’s not an accident…that’s paid advertising.

Don’t be so damn naive…

#95

Unfortunately, some people need to be burned personally before they see healthy skepticism as positive.

#96

^^^listen to him kyle

#97

volt has no clue what hes talking about… fuck the tuner wars you guys should all just get mtm and call it a day and ill stick with my APR ;D

#98

The OG of tune threads ;D - http://www.audizine.com/forum/showthread.php/372531-Official-MTM-Dyno-Speculation-Thread-Results-Coming-Tomorrow?highlight=MTM

BTW - nice sig :smiley:

#99

AR is picking up some steam in the b8 section… keep it coming haha

#100

what do you mean?