I’m driving.
I can.
the short runner on the stock manifolds has a 2;1 pressure rise over the longer of the two manifold runners on the B5. This relates to the pressure over what is experenced with the other runners. This rise in back flow pressure unequal from the other cyliners will back up into the cylinder under high pressure. When you make a better flow path this will lower but not eliminate the massive pressure difference between the cylinders.
Having that high of a pressure difference is also part of why the cars will do better on the dyno then on the street. While hp can be made in one pulll the extra cylinder pressure causes the motor to load free spin load in a uneven pattern this also causes a slight bog… SLIGHT… not so much you would see it. Still motor dynamics will experence this. Its a harsh load that gets put back into the motor.
Pressure in the motor back in the motor isn’t a big deal with turbo cars its part of the game… An uneven pressure at a 2;1 ratio in one cylinder is a issue.
So thats parts of it.
I also agree evil evo thinks they suck because its a vast product.
It’s either a very poor turbo match or the stock manifolds suck “I believe it’s a mixture of both, for sure the manifolds” & that’s why the Tial turbos have to run so much boost to achieve any decent results compared to a full GT setup. EvilEvo has the GT2871R setup from Agtronics & they use tubular manifolds. Vast tried tuning Evils car & failed as usually.
What have you proven with this post. Show me track results that show tubular manifolds perform better than stock log manifolds at 6-700whp. Theories are great on forums and e-chats. You have nothing more than that yellow bird you posted up. I can by chance, show you, evidence, by the only company who tried to look into the question of power on the stock manifold v.s. tubular
What, a dyno sheet?
I dont understand what you don’t get but Sakimano argument makes perfect sense. He asked just to look at the difference between the grand national headers and the stock s4 ones. The s4 ones look like shit and absolutely are. Ofcourse you can make 700 + hp like your boy Jason did but it’s only because he’s cramming over 40 psi down the motors throat. That’s not ideal and inefficient and begins to stress other components. If you could make 700 hp at 30 psi, wouldnt you much rather have that than getting the same numbers at 40? Because if you make that at 30, imagine what you would make at 40! We here are all about efficiency, he is dramatically reducing the life of his turbos at that boost just so he can get ooohhhs and aaaahhhs and sell a bunch of kits. People that have half a clue will think instead that if that car needs 40 plus lbs of boost to make that power, something just isn’t right
All I am saying is. Show me where a tubular S4 outperforms a stock exhaust manifold S4. I we based performance on looks then VASTs GT kit would perform well, and AWE’s manifolds wouldn’t crack and would make more power. There isn’t any comparative on the street or your beloved 1/4 mile to support your claims. That is all I am saying. Ask anyone who knows turbos and have examined the tial 605 and 770. They are made to run higher PSI, infact they don’t become efficient until the upper 20’s psi. And they are built like bricks. Here is the deal, I will give you guys, as far as info goes, everything i can. If my stuff doesn’t perform, tease and tear it down all you wish. If it does perform well, then all of you will have to send tial a signed apology that I will type up for you ;).
lol
the only ones who need to prove anything are
- tial
- amd
Not us. Not you.
That’s what I don’t think you understand…you think this is a witch hunt against you and you want to ‘show us all’ and ‘win’. Did you design the Tial turbo? Did you design your AMD build and install it? I don’t think you did. So why the fuck are you taking this so personally when people are calling out Tials and AMD?
PES customers used to freak out just like you and make all kinds of claims that PES were good guys and that the Eaton M90 supercharger they used on the 4.2 was a great product blah blah blah. So did VF customers. They called everyone ‘hostile’ just like you did on the other thread. Why? Just because you bought the shit? Nobody is saying ‘you’re a moron, you bought garbage’. People are saying ‘hey AMD …prove your shit’ but you and the other Tial guys are stepping in to protect AMD from proving themselves. Why?
A company shouldn’t send their customers to the fucking dragstrip to prove you know what you’re doing (and when their cars FLOP, you don’t shred them and say they don’t know how to drive on an open forum like JASON did). How about building a B5 S4 that you own the title to, AMD. Then dyno it. Then play with your pbox. Then take it to the strip and rip off an 11.00 @ 135 on pump gas. Then say ‘fuck you guys’. Then watch us go…fuck, we were dead wrong, and he just slapped us in the face with it. Good on him.
Don’t send customers out to fight your battles…they don’t stand a chance.
OMFG the best post on this EVER. while I don’t know much of AMD all I know is bad. Everytime I turn around its how AMD covered this and that up. Frirst it was the mehtonal on there car then it was the weight of there car and then it was the use of NOS.
I don’t think anyone has a issue with you. The issue is we are having a discuession about a unproven part that has TONS of hype and no real deep testing prosess. The testing that has been done hasn’t even been done on cars owned by the shop.
The generation of B5 S4 companys seems to have the approch now of. “LETS try this or that on your car” or we are getting flack for no testing so lets do a TEST of this or that on your car… This is whats wrong with the companys. The customers are test dummys. Im never a fan of that when it comes to a end product. I Can see it from time to time with certin parts but this attitude just starts fights.
In the end its stuff like this
[quote]quote from tweetss4I will give you guys, as far as info goes, everything i can. If my stuff doesn’t perform, tease and tear it down all you wish. If it does perform well, then all of you will have to send tial a signed apology that I will type up for you Wink.
[/quote]
Why are you fighting the battel for a untested turbo. The results that keeps getting used are from ONE Car and its not even a independent car so there is some grain of salt that needs to be gievn there.
If your car does well we will all cheer for you. If your car isn’t doing well we will all fight for you. The thing to think about is you don’t know how your car is going to really react.
Just about everyone on this site can tell you how ko3’s will perform and ko4’s will perform and ever to some extent ko6’s will perform.
At this point I Will say I don’t know much about the B5 or whats going on. So this is what I see.
spending money on TIAL Turbos is kinda a waste. There are no good real world results that have been shown. The results seem to point the tial turbos work but you have to be at high rpm and boost to see something. Even then a ko4 car would be just as fast when you consider the laws of the roads that we all drive on.
When it comes to efficient exhaust systems I think I would listen to the NA guys, to get the most out of our cars we need this stuff to work well. I don’t understand why you go with a 3" or 4" downpipes to help flow and restrictions after the turbo, but leave the restriction of the air out of the engine is just plain silly. I have gone to great pains to make sure that the manifold on my NA motor are not as restrictive as some of the stock manifolds.
How is it that high HP 1.8t’s run a tubular manifold…oh wait it is cause stock is shit (I know engine’s don’t compare but it has a turbo and air flow principles still apply)
Out of curiosity have you done head work on your 3l build tweet?
What frustrates me is, everything you say isnt factual, it’s speculation. The only point the nay-sayers have is the 10 people that have taken tial cars to the track have done horribly. I remember when people made fun of GURU because every other 600whp car was in the 9s and he gutted his car! All of the B.S. circulated about Jason using Nitrous and lightening up the car (which was the charcoal canaster removed and some light weight wheels) is also frustrating. I’m not trying to fight anyone’s battle other then the battle against ignorance lol. It’s like I said I will keep you all informed as to how the car performs.
is your car running right now or are you still having problems with the motor?
Amen! Jason has in his signature, “worlds most powerful 2.7”, or something to that effect… Why doesn’t he go out with that world record holding car and run it? All the AMD “representatives” are so secretive as well. There were no videos ever posted of the 60-120 pulls, no videos or time slips of the trip to the track, nothing ever… It’s all talk… At least when I flop, I post of videos, time slips and all… They are children, Jason being the biggest child. All they do is claim numbers, all claims…
Saki,
We all know they only care about saying they have the highest whp car. If they really cared about the results, they wouldn’t advocate leaving inefficient parts in a system that could benefit greatly from a more efficient one.
I don’t know a ton, but I do know that the more efficiently you can flow hot air out (especially in a F/I car) the better. However, when they are just trying to prove they can build the highest whp dyno queen they don’t care how efficiently it actually makes the power that it does.
yeah, I just make stuff up. Lots of ignorance, and inexperience. I don’t listen to the smartest people in the tuning industry. I don’t talk to and learn from the smartest people on the forums. nope. I sit here ‘ignorant’ and speculate. I don’t read and post more on these forums that just about anyone on earth (I’ll put that to the test if you like…go back and check out my history)
If you think that’s me, you don’t know a thing.
Let’s look at you. What do you have?
You have dyno results, FATS and 60-130 times that are awesome (both things that can be manipulated). You have your panties in a bunch defending a company that has proved FUCK ALL even though they’ve been asked 100 times. When they tried, their cars failed (their customers cars because those are the test dummies) You also have a knack for starting wars with people who are trying to protect the forums from misinformation (or a simple LACK of information).
This is funny - [quote=tweets4estate]Why are we yelling!!! Seriously, why is this whole forum angry with tial? Their alpha 996 kit rips. Just because the S4 kits seem to not have good data doesn mean you get to hate on the company.
[/quote]
Nobody is angry with Tial. Nobody is ‘hating’. How is it ‘hating’ when we’re asking for proof…and all of the acceptable ‘proof’ that has been provided has been FAR from impressive. The 996 kits might be great. Thing is you don’t drive a 996. You drive an S4 with an AMD tial setup and EPL? tuning. We’re asking about that. …and so far we haven’t seen much that is awesome from the S4 (other than stuff that can be easily manipulated). Who tuned those fast turbo Porsches with the Tial kits?
NYCVR6 isn’t in this to make his build look better. He’s slapping people in the face with reality. He has seen this happen before, and he will see it happen again. He is getting punished (reputation wise) for it in the forums, as the posters don’t get that he’s out there for legit results and advancement…and is trying to stop the acceptance of easily manipulated ‘proof’ methods by companies who are selling you something
.
Again…nobody has said Tials are the devil…and nobody has said AMD is trying to ruin its customers’ lives. All I and a few others have said are that these companies need to prove their shit…not fool the forums with easily manipulated dynos and fats times and logs and bullshit. If AMD and EPL are legit, they’ll step up. That’s great and that will make it tough for the scam artist companies to come into the forum and fool the less apt. Unfortunately it seems they (AMD/EPL) are doing their best NOT to go to the strip…and want instead to let the forum rely on 60-130 and FATS.
- if Jason or EPL or somefuckingbody produces a Tials 605 car that runs 11.5 @ 125 on pump gas (should be easy for a 500 whp/wtq car like the half dozen they showed us) or a Tials 770 built motor car that runs 11.0 @ 135 on pump gas (same deal for the 650-700 hp cars they have shown us) we will all say ‘ok…cool…Tials look to be legit!’.
First show us where there’s 1 770 car performing well without being in the hands of the tuner/dyno owner or shops that push them? First the turbo design your speaking about is soley the “compressor wheel” that’s all & that very same design seems to run great at much lower boost levels on every other application except that of the B5 S4.
If you take that very same turbo & run proper manifolds I’m willing to bet it will perform the same or better with 25+% less boost. This isn’t fact but it is what they tell you guys “what else would they say?” The stock manifold which happens to be our major selling point for our turbochargers are restrictive or junk but if you run 40lbs they’ll perform the same as or less than other setups running mid 20lbs.
I can easily video why the stock manifolds suck & why theres far better designs out there for the S4 but it will only confuse many & cause far too much drama. Just remember the stock manifolds where designed to only go so far & at 1 bar or less the manifold is already restrictive 
When you squirt on top of 40lbs rod’s break is why!
Nobody is angry with Tial. Nobody is ‘hating’. How is it ‘hating’ when we’re asking for proof…and all of the acceptable ‘proof’ that has been provided has been FAR from impressive. The 996 kits might be great. Thing is you don’t drive a 996. You drive an S4 with an AMD tial setup and EPL? tuning. We’re asking about that. …and so far we haven’t seen much that is awesome from the S4 (other than stuff that can be easily manipulated). Who tuned those fast turbo Porsches with the Tial kits?
NYCVR6 isn’t in this to make his build look better. He’s slapping people in the face with reality. He has seen this happen before, and he will see it happen again. He is getting punished (reputation wise) for it in the forums, as the posters don’t get that he’s out there for legit results and advancement…and is trying to stop the acceptance of easily manipulated ‘proof’ methods by companies who are selling you something
.
Again…nobody has said Tials are the devil…and nobody has said AMD is trying to ruin its customers’ lives. All I and a few others have said are that these companies need to prove their shit…not fool the forums with easily manipulated dynos and fats times and logs and bullshit. If AMD and EPL are legit, they’ll step up. That’s great and that will make it tough for the scam artist companies to come into the forum and fool the less apt. Unfortunately it seems they (AMD/EPL) are doing their best NOT to go to the strip…and want instead to let the forum rely on 60-130 and FATS.
- if Jason or EPL or somefuckingbody produces a Tials 605 car that runs 11.5 @ 125 on pump gas (should be easy for a 500 whp/wtq car like the half dozen they showed us) or a Tials 770 built motor car that runs 11.0 @ 135 on pump gas (same deal for the 650-700 hp cars they have shown us) we will all say ‘ok…cool…Tials look to be legit!’.
[/quote]
I’m the first to have a 605 car break 500ftlbs. I am aware of maybe 2 that make more than 500whp other than myself. Please prove me wrong, but I would assume I am more informed in such matters. As far as exhaust manifolds go. Please, anyone, show me tubular manifolds outperforming stock manifold cars. Its funny, Cosworth changed camshafts, head port-size, turbos, inlet piping, exhaust etc. but not the exhaust manifolds. Also the RS4 runs more than 1 bar. I would assume they know more about flow than the N/A guys.
No one is hating on tial turbos? The name of this thread, let-alone one or two other threads i’ve noticed, directly rip on or talk about tial in a negative way. Not sure how that isn’t hating. No one has proven their point here, and until there is real world evidence that their point is true then I will assume it isn’t. Theories are great, talking about products and developing them are great but, until there is real world data, well, you’ve said it your self. I’m done with this until I have evidence, either way, for you guys.
I wasn’t calling you or anyone ignorant on a whole, i was saying it is an act of ignorance by a group of people most, of whom, don’t even have B5 S4s to claim things when they have only speculation behind their claims. Yes, I get it, jason is not polished, he has said rude things, I’m not fighting his fight, I am saying it isn’t fair to speak against him when it is a second hand source that supplied the information. I was going to be his first GT/Tial N20 car, I still might be. Anyways, this is poinless arguing, we will never elide. And in a month or so you can tell me I told you so or I can say, lets line them up.
Thanks.
The engine that was in it has been pulled out and the engine that was going in my yellow car is going in that. They got Burningcoals 3.0L 770 carback up this week, mine should be back together this week and tuned next week. I won’t be headed to NYC now until the beginning of March. Perks is keeping me in MI during February now. Quick run-down of my silver car’s setup I am running sligtly ported 2.7 heads with 2.8L intake cams. Other than the IM being portmatched, an APR bi-pipe, AMD intercoolers, HFS-3 methonal, 605 turbos and kit, 3"downpipes into 3.5" exhaust. 3.OL stroker (ovbiously). One thing I will say is, the AMD 3.0L pistons seem to be the only pistons that don’t burn oil, at least from the people I’ve talked to. It was dumb of me to not have Jason build the slver car’s engine in the first place. I am lucky that the original engine builder is willing to pay for jason to build it correctly (it was the original builders second 3.0L failure in that car). Thats what i got boys, thats the when also. I’m going to try to come out with good tires on. I won’t be keeping the car out there so we will have to fit some runs into a small window of time I will let you guys (especially 91gl) know when I will have some time for some friendly runs.
I will also video the shit out of everything, I will get a video angle for each one of you. I’ll buy 5k in Gopro cameras lol 
Please do, we aren’t against you man. We just want to see the product perform as it has been hyped to perform.
Hopefully you get up and running soon, would like to see some results from Tials that match the dyno numbers and it sounds like you are trying to do that.