You guys are obsessing about boost and bypass too much.
Boost does not help as much as that crazy timing does in those RPMs/Speeds as shown last year by the Revo car Stage 1 car that ran 14.5psi max and 26-27 degrees of timing on pump and ran as fast as the Stage 2 cars (both GIAC and APR).
I really think it’s the aggressive timing and the C16 that are helping you out in 4th. The pump times you ran right before we switched to C16 were not that good to say that the headers helped. And this was on the revised flash.
Remember though, at this stage in the game we are clawing for milliseconds, so no bypass, no knock, is better than bypass, and no knock.
No bypass/more boost also means higher IATs especially in a prolonged gear like 4th. I’d rather have the timing which has been shown to be where the power is gained. Prime and the old Revo Stage 1 car are excellent examples of where more timing > more boost.
I agree with you, as far as cold weather is concerned however, my logs show intake temps never passing 48 degrees C.
I am not stating this as a fact but I cant imagine another 1-2psi of boost could equate to drastically higher intake temps?
Hey if we can see some logs maybe we can see what’s going on…:-). J
Well Pete’s logs today showed most of the timing pull he was seeing was when IATs were over 48-50C. His 4th gear run hit over 57C at redline. More boost= more heat.
Gonna log Pete’s car in am on 104 file with C16. we can compare to Jones’.
he did. It was 10 something on the same stretch, but going the other way.
Have a look at your data from 60-115. That’s more relevant to the quarter mile. ALso have a look at your time vs. distance stuff.
Shaving a whole second on the 60-130 is barely going to be a tenth or two at the strip because you’re barely using 4th gear rather than running it right to redline. According to me. Would like to see it.
Saki … here is Pete’s breakdown from the Pbox tools software
0-60 runs that registered were 3.65, 4.01 and 4.09s
60-90 3.12s
60-100 4.74s
60-110 6.21s
60-120 7.83s
60-130 9.68s
Elevation was 5.183 ft incline over 1665.14 ft to do 60-130 or +0.31%
60-115 6.99s (in 1170.01 ft)
60-116 7.17s (in 1203.99 ft)
60-117 7.34s (in 1236.07 ft)
60-118 7.48s (in 1263.52 ft)
60-119 7.66s (in 1298.36 ft)
60-120 7.83s (in 1330.46 ft)
60-130 9.68s (in 1665.14 ft)
Jeff’s incline run
60-90 3.19s
60-100 4.67s
60-110 6.19s
60-120 7.93s
60-130 10.17s
Elevation was 4.315 ft incline over 1498.81 ft for 60-130 or +0.28% incline.
Seems like Pete made up most time during 120-130 interval. 60-110 was close. DA diff was -1550 (pete) vs -2500 (jeff) iirc.
60-115 7.02s (in 932.58 ft)
60-116 7.19s (in 961.06 ft)
60-117 7.37s (in 991.86 ft)
60-118 7.55s (in 1022.30 ft)
60-119 7.74s (in 1056.36 ft)
60-120 7.92s (in 1088.25 ft)
60-130 10.17s (in 1498.81 ft)
What is so very significant isn’t about the headers, it’s about the 93+ methanol spray on 104 tune. I know a few people don’t care for it, but as far as I’m concerned that’s frankly awesome. I have unlimited free tech grade methanol available.
When I was testing the v2 beta, I’ve run 94 on the 100 APR tune for a minute, watching VCDS. Even under medium loads, the ignition timing was being pulled 10+ degrees on all cylinders, it was undriveable.
Details about the spray would be really useful. Pre-blower, snow or aquamist or ?
Thanks Tsivas…made me feel lazy now…:-)…hey send me a pete log for sure. Maybe get a log, just one showing an O2 sensor lambda and EGT and TL (injector time) for fun, wonder if it can tell anything is amiss with the rocket fuel onboard.
Guys as far as I recall IATs do not affect ignition timing until the temp protection comes in at 80degC or so IAT. Maybe silentbob or Arin can chime in. A low IAT will make the motor think it has a big MAF though.
Jones…wow hadn’t seen that video of your setup before. Is it all set yet? Care to share the flows at all? I always thought for out setup a boost switch would be pretty much the same thing, since full boost is there at 3000 rpm. But a progressive RPM controller might be useful, with a boost switch. Any thoughts?
What am I looking for with TL(injector time)? Block/description so I can find it. Gonna log in am
oops it’s:
Group 544 - Field 0 TI_1_HOM[0] (this is cylinder 0 injection time)
log a cylinder to see. I’m curious how long the injection time is getting at these power levels.
And compared to Jones, who is on Meth (lol!), I wonder if the AFRs are compensating
Gimme everything you want to see or pick most critical… don’t have a ton of gas and probably will get to do one set of 9-10 parameters a few times. He wants to re pbox with -2500 DA which it should be in the early am.
Engine Speed
IAT
Air mass kg/h
Ign Angle Actual
Intake Manifold Pressure (Absolute) , hPa
IGA_AD_1_KNK[0]- how many cylinders or any specific cylinder?
RFP_AV (bypass)
EGT
Lambda probes actual; bank1
Group 544 - Field 0 TI_1_HOM[0] (this is cylinder 0 injection time)
Charge air pressure specified value-MAP_SP
Jspazz,
I have never metered exact flow, it is an M10 nozzle, and the pump is a high quality 250psi pump from Alky Control.
It is set to go on around 5-6psi because the car builds boost so fast. Also, it is not a progressive rpm controller, it is a progressive map based sensor.
I have a 2.5bar(I believe) map sensor plugged into the boost tap at the charger entry. The controller uses voltage output from the map sensor and has an initial and progressive setting.
Initial - voltage input received triggers the pump
Progressive - sets the starting flow amount once initial is triggered, then depending on the progressive knob setting, will increase voltage to the pump based on the voltage it is receiving from the map sensor.
If it helps, I explained my max 18psi pressure to Julio from alky control and he believes that at 18psi with the progressive know turned almost all the way up, I am extremely close to maxing the M10 nozzle.
I would love to explain everything I’ve seem in my logs when I started spraying; including some interesting notes on what happens when you reset fuel trims. There is just too much to type.
Hey, yeah Jeff, I saw your setup in the video with the MAP controller. I always figured though, given that the boost comes on like a switch, but actual MAF is progressive with RPM more or less, that an RPM based water injection control would make more sense (since we can’t tap into MAF).
I haven’t really looked into what the LS guys do with this blower, do they use MAP too?
I really see the weird thing going on in your log, that the bypass valve in your run opens at lower RPMs, tapers down to nothing, then opens again slightly at really high RPM. Does it do this without the meth spray? Would be useful to see what lambda and maybe EGT says, just to make sure you aren’t hitting any sort of protection.
I’m all ears about what happens when you reset fuel trims…
let me guess…lots of black rich exhaust…maybe a bit of exhaust flame on shifts…
I will log those values next.
And with or without fuel reset, if my meth is on, I shoot rediculous fireballs.
My buddy that I race, in his subaru Sti said it was like non stop, “pop pop pop” both tail pipes, multiple shots.
I’m going to go pro that shit soon, don’t know why I havnt done it yet