Hi there. Thanks for the input. Unfortunately that’s wrong.
The PSS provides great lateral grip but in my experience, it is just ‘OK’ for acceleration from a stop. I would ask…how often do those same track day guys bust it off the line from a dead stop? Never? That’s kind of what I thought. So why are we listening to their opinion on something they never do again?
Anyway, if my opinion isn’t strong enough for you, I have half a dozen timeslips from November 2012 where the Density Altitude was -1200 feet…aka incredible. My tires that day? Brand new Michelin Pilot Super Sport. The same ones I’m on now 18 months later. My best time on the day? 12.81 seconds. SLOWER than my stock record. Much slower than my 12.53.
So if you want to compare my stock PSS times in incredible DA to my modded PSS times in average DA, the delta is going to get even bigger in favour for the exhaust.
Coincidentally, that exhaust is also your exhaust, is it not? I don’t understand you guys. You want to cause shit and beat down the results for a product BOTH OF YOU OWN! You and Zmoron both have JHM exhaust…yet due to your allegiance to the flying tomato band of pinheads, you shit on it?
Since when did being curious about more data go from “looking to be more informed” to “causing shit?” You are now making the assumption that your driving skill from 2012 to 2014 has not improved at all. I typically drop 1 second or so each time I go to the race track. If you can’t improve in driving skill over 2 years why would you bother going back to the drag strip with no changes to the car? Seems strange to me.
actually in the real world, if you’re acting like an asshole, I’m likely to tell you. I have no filter. Nothing personal. It’s like if you show up wearing an awful coat. I will tell you. If you stink and need a shower, I will tell you. People like you need people like me.
“Hey Zach…you’re acting like an ignorant asshole. You’re being a dickhead to Jake who is a young guy who has been at JHM for 2 years. Cut him some fucking slack. If you have a problem with the company, call Jason Harbinson, the President, and tell him he is wrong. He is wrong to start selling a B5 shifter in 2006 and to grow that into a multi million dollar business that employs a dozen people 8 years later. He should abandon that, and instead do what 6 guys want him to do. Incidentally, 3 of those 6 already own the product…1 has already bought a competitor’s product, and 2 of them have a 1 in 1000 chance of buying. So he should abandon 8 years to potentially sell 2 catback exhausts to two guys where there’s a 1 in 1000 chance.”
If you need me to come and say that to your face, I will be happy to. I’m not looking for a fistfight, which is what people who get called out usually resort to claiming (see mickf29 for reference).
Seriously…you were acting like an asshole. Seems now you have (finally) come to understand why JHM do things the way they do, as you relented above. Now you just need to apologize to Jake.
I know what you’re getting at, but stop drawing parallels between the dragstrip and the road course. The skill level required to do well at the road course is LIGHT YEARS ahead of the dragstrip. Once you figure out the dragstrip, you’re not going to improve your dragstrip runs much over time by just trying over and over and over. Maybe a tiny bit, but not much. In reality I was pretty rusty last week, having not gone for 2 years, but I still did well. I fucked up a couple of launches at the wrong RPM. Two more I left ESP on after cooling the car down…forgot after restart. Those could have been 12.4 @ 111 runs. Who knows.
On the road course, for sure you get better as you keep going back because you’re pushing the car closer and closer to the edge. At the dragstrip, you’re pushing it 100% from day 1 with no fear becuase you’re going straight as an arrow and there’s no risk. On the road course, you could kill your car, or yourself, so there’s certainly a journey of confidence you must travel before you get to 10/10ths. You were a neophyte on the road course when you started taking your RS4, and you’re probably pretty good now. You’re still miles away from the fastest in the world. Me? I set the world record for a stock RS4 on my 3rd trip in the Rs4 to the strip (7th dragstrip visit of my life). Not exactly hard to do.
As to why I would go to the strip multiple times, it’s simple.
I went the first 2 times because I wanted to see what the car could do. First time was with a group of buddies but conditions sucked. Second time on my own. I ran my 12.9 and was happy. I had Conti Sport2 tires which sucked for launching, so my 60’ times were crap. Incidentally ContiSportContact2 tires are a lot like Michelin Pilot SS in design…channeled tires with similar wear ratings. Not great for launching.
Third time I went to film some friends and take pics with no intention of running (I already had my 12.9), but I ended up running the car because it was a nice day and the track was empty. I ended up setting the stock Rs4 record. I had directional tires that made launching a breeze, and my 60’ times were over a tenth better than the previous 2 trips. That explains the over a tenth time shaved. See here for that thread. http://audirevolution.net/forum/index.php?topic=714.0
Then I went 2 times with Mistro so we could do a before and after comparison of 2 stock RS4s where one stayed stock, and the other got carbon cleaned. See here for the thread: http://audirevolution.net/forum/index.php?topic=1077.0
I then went another 2 times with Axel who asked me to drive his B7 S4 supercharged to see if he was leaving anything on the table.
I also went with 2000S4 who bought an E92 M3 with tune and he wanted to see how he stacked up vs. my RS4, so we went November 2012 with me on my Michelin PSS tires. I never had a 60’ better than 1.88 all day. Best time was 12.83 or 12.81. Struggled as those tires aren’t great for launching. Still beat the M3 though
I never once insulted Jake… Jake chose to keep arguing, and if he wasn’t a young guy and had any sort of experience he would have informed the community like Axel did in the beginning of the thread. Its a great reason and JHM has been successful following that model.
If Jake needed an apology he would have PM’d me to ask… was i being annoying yes, insulting, no!
No, you insulted him. Jake would never PM a customer (with JHM exhaust) to apologizse. He just eats the shit thrown at him as one of their internet sales reps. He tried to clarify, but didn’t want to trash the competition, so he was being quiet. Axel, Datadatum and Beemercer laid it all out on AZ very eloquently. I laid it out here a bit more abruptly.
Here’s where you didn’t get that JHM doesn’t want to validate the dyno because OTHER shops will fudge their data (and have). Somehow, half a dozen people posted it, and you girls were reading us post it here, but you still didn’t get it.
[quote]why are you assuming JHM will manipulate the dyno charts they don’t put out??
[/quote]
[quote]again BS logic… if i use your logic then i can repeat the dyno numbers a manufacturer posts under the same conditions and car setup. But your argument is this is not possible (forget the fraudulent stuff because JHM is an honest company)
[/quote]
and you still don’t get it…and just called what Jake posted ‘Bullshit’
Then you said Jake’s argument is terrible…
[quote]Jake already knows he has a terrible argument…
[/quote]
…but this morning you relented and admitted you now understand why they do what they do (which was Jake’s argument…which you called terrible last night)
Then, like an asshole, you immediately tell Jake this
[quote]save your breath Jake.
[/quote]
then you went back to not understanding the whole thing…backhandedly accused my times of being ‘fudged’, and on and on. He is sucking my tit? HE POSTED MY FUCKING VIDEO. It sounds awesome and nobody has good exhaust sound videos for these cars, so he posted one. He also posted acceleration data for the RS4 in general and the JHM exhaust. How the fuck is he sucking my tit? He’s the JHM internet sales rep. He is doing his fucking job .
[quote]Jake,
were arguing for additional data…
your saying that additional data (dyno) is easily fudge able and inaccurate. then your sucking the tit of a customers vid as your exhaust performance baseline not knowing anything about the car setup, tire pressure, and every other variable that day… JHM was not at the track.
this 1/4 run could have been fudged as well!! (i sure it was not, becuase saki is known for good data)
but your knock against the dyno and why your company does not provide one is because it can be manipulated… NEWS FLASH so can a 1/4 mile time!
[/quote]
The best part of this is that you were calm and collected when you first saw the data. This was like the 6th post in the thread.
[quote=ZMON]Good work Saki! and JHM… still rocking my second hand beta version in same config as “customers”
[/quote]
Once you saw a bunch of jackyls running in for a piece of meat, you thought you’d get some for yourself and jumped in on the attack. Like those 14 year old kids who swarm an old woman in a park and steal her purse. A bunch of normal kids who turn into douchebag little assholes in a group and act like fools.
These guys will never get it, if you can’t look at everything on the table and “understand” then you are an idiot or have another agenda like flyingtroolbag.
Now it’s the tires…
Now it’s skill improvement…
The level to which some of you idiots take the argument is amazing. Always reaching to make yourself look right, but only looking foolish in the end. All the points have been made above so I don’t feel the need to reiterate because it’s truthfully going to be a waste of my time.
Maybe you are confused. No one is saying that the exhasut does not improve results. People are just looking for multiple ways to quantify the improvement. Not sure why that’s so hard to understand. I find it pretty interesting how even saki just used whp to describe the improvement of a car from stock to JHM tune+exhaust. Yet people people are crazy for looking for the same dyno results for exhaust alone? Interesting.
I know you know it makes power, why did you never quantify it?
It’s funny to see people complain about the lack of dyno information from a company that doesn’t prove their products work on a dyno because of the past. In the end you the customer can quantify the numbers or screw off.
I don’t own a stock RS4 with exhaust only so I can’t quantify it. That’s why people are asking the company who owns/sells said product to provide that data. Or had Saki done and pre/post dyno the day of install he could have added that to the video to take care of JHM’s full exhaust marketing packet for them. No need to get ur panties in a bunch bro. It’s a forum, sometimes people ue them to share/discuss platform related items. Go figure right?
You are correct saki. I paid for the exhaust in March of 2013 and got a fully operational system sometime around Feb of this year. Thanks for the reminder?.. But that has nothing to do with people who don’t own the exhaust wanting additional info which has to be fairly easy for a company to provide. I could be wrong. Maybe JHM refines their tunes/superchargers/exhaust without ever using a dyno.
I’m telling you that you don’t actually care…you don’t want dyno numbers. You just want a fight. You already bought the fucking thing.
If you haven’t noticed, Jake posts links to customer videos periodically. Rs4 tony, me, ZMON ironically. People are always asking him for sound videos so he shows them their own, as well as customer videos.
No, you tried it, failed miserably, and then lied to everyone. You claimed you do 5 second burnouts at the water box. This proved you have no idea what you’re talking about. It’s impossible to do a 5 second burnout in an RS4, waterbox or not. Stock, 500 hp, or 1000 hp RS4s can’t do it. They would take off the whole way down the track.
