Went to the dragstrip today with the RS4 + JHM exhaust

[badblueRS4]

The record pass was set on April 7, 2012 at 3ish at Cayuga Raceway. The D/A at that time was 498. The pass with the JHM exhaust was run on April 14, 2014 at 12ish at Cayuga Raceway. The D/A at that time was also 498. The exact same! Both runs happened at the exact same track with the exact same D/A. You seriously can not get a better example of an upgrade making power then what Saki has provided. So, yes, he can say that he installed an exhaust and shaved .2 seconds off his time because it honestly happened. Remember that dyno charts are nothing more then pretty graphs. They can easily be skewed and compromised. In this case there is no arguing with the fact that this exhaust made power.

930chas….we are past that point of knowing it made power. You seem to keep bringing that up. No one is questioning that. We are asking to see where on the power band and how much power it made. I know you haven’t had your car for long, so maybe that’s why you don’t get the question. Or maybe you just don’t think the way we do. That’s cool.

For example, without a modified tune, the stock tune limits 50%power until 5500rpm, so did the exhaust provide more power after 5500 rpm? This is important to know, because when you are driving, whether its a highway pull, dragstrip, road course or stoplight, you want to know where your strongest power is. Should you stay in a lower gear, or higher gear. etc. Also, once a tune is added to the exhaust, by looking at the dyno, we could decipher if more peak power was reached before 5500rpm etc. I think you get the point now. We know it made power, we want to know more specifically about the performance increase.

[Quadfreak]

The record pass was set on April 7, 2012 at 3ish at Cayuga Raceway. The D/A at that time was 498. The pass with the JHM exhaust was run on April 14, 2014 at 12ish at Cayuga Raceway. The D/A at that time was also 498. The exact same! Both runs happened at the exact same track with the exact same D/A. You seriously can not get a better example of an upgrade making power then what Saki has provided. So, yes, he can say that he installed an exhaust and shaved .2 seconds off his time because it honestly happened. Remember that dyno charts are nothing more then pretty graphs. They can easily be skewed and compromised. In this case there is no arguing with the fact that this exhaust made power.

930chas….we are past that point of knowing it made power. You seem to keep bringing that up. No one is questioning that. We are asking to see where on the power band and how much power it made. I know you haven’t had your car for long, so maybe that’s why you don’t get the question. Or maybe you just don’t think the way we do. That’s cool.

For example, without a modified tune, the stock tune limits 50%power until 5500rpm, so did the exhaust provide more power after 5500 rpm? This is important to know, because when you are driving, whether its a highway pull, dragstrip, road course or stoplight, you want to know where your strongest power is. Should you stay in a lower gear, or higher gear. etc. Also, once a tune is added to the exhaust, by looking at the dyno, we could decipher if more peak power was reached before 5500rpm etc. I think you get the point now. We know it made power, we want to know more specifically about the performance increase.

Why should someone else spend their money for YOUR information. If you want to know so bad…do it yourself. I also think we are past the point of knowing that dyno’s are easily manipulated so I am not sure why you are still arguing this point?

[euroswagr]

How often are you below 5500rpm in any kind of racing? Idiot

And if the stock tune limits torque until 5500rpm that can’t be controlled by the exhaust besides, like I said who fucking has the car below 5500rpm if they are legitimately racing…any kind of race

Don’t try the “you haven’t owned your RS4 as long as me” bullshit here

930 has cars that you probably dream about…

[badblueRS4]

The record pass was set on April 7, 2012 at 3ish at Cayuga Raceway. The D/A at that time was 498. The pass with the JHM exhaust was run on April 14, 2014 at 12ish at Cayuga Raceway. The D/A at that time was also 498. The exact same! Both runs happened at the exact same track with the exact same D/A. You seriously can not get a better example of an upgrade making power then what Saki has provided. So, yes, he can say that he installed an exhaust and shaved .2 seconds off his time because it honestly happened. Remember that dyno charts are nothing more then pretty graphs. They can easily be skewed and compromised. In this case there is no arguing with the fact that this exhaust made power.

930chas….we are past that point of knowing it made power. You seem to keep bringing that up. No one is questioning that. We are asking to see where on the power band and how much power it made. I know you haven’t had your car for long, so maybe that’s why you don’t get the question. Or maybe you just don’t think the way we do. That’s cool.

For example, without a modified tune, the stock tune limits 50%power until 5500rpm, so did the exhaust provide more power after 5500 rpm? This is important to know, because when you are driving, whether its a highway pull, dragstrip, road course or stoplight, you want to know where your strongest power is. Should you stay in a lower gear, or higher gear. etc. Also, once a tune is added to the exhaust, by looking at the dyno, we could decipher if more peak power was reached before 5500rpm etc. I think you get the point now. We know it made power, we want to know more specifically about the performance increase.

Why should someone else spend their money for YOUR information. If you want to know so bad…do it yourself. I also think we are past the point of knowing that dyno’s are easily manipulated so I am not sure why you are still arguing this point?

I’m not suggesting that SOMEONE spend THEIR money for OUR information! I’m suggesting that the company that made and is selling the exhaust provide this information. JHM hasn’t released any performance specs on the exhaust period! This was a test with money and time spent by a CUSTOMER.

[930chas]

The record pass was set on April 7, 2012 at 3ish at Cayuga Raceway. The D/A at that time was 498. The pass with the JHM exhaust was run on April 14, 2014 at 12ish at Cayuga Raceway. The D/A at that time was also 498. The exact same! Both runs happened at the exact same track with the exact same D/A. You seriously can not get a better example of an upgrade making power then what Saki has provided. So, yes, he can say that he installed an exhaust and shaved .2 seconds off his time because it honestly happened. Remember that dyno charts are nothing more then pretty graphs. They can easily be skewed and compromised. In this case there is no arguing with the fact that this exhaust made power.

930chas….we are past that point of knowing it made power. You seem to keep bringing that up. No one is questioning that. We are asking to see where on the power band and how much power it made. I know you haven’t had your car for long, so maybe that’s why you don’t get the question. Or maybe you just don’t think the way we do. That’s cool.

For example, without a modified tune, the stock tune limits 50%power until 5500rpm, so did the exhaust provide more power after 5500 rpm? This is important to know, because when you are driving, whether its a highway pull, dragstrip, road course or stoplight, you want to know where your strongest power is. Should you stay in a lower gear, or higher gear. etc. Also, once a tune is added to the exhaust, by looking at the dyno, we could decipher if more peak power was reached before 5500rpm etc. I think you get the point now. We know it made power, we want to know more specifically about the performance increase.

You are going round and round in circles brother and honestly not making much sense. In your previous post, you state that this improvement can not be solely based on the exhaust upgrade due to elevation or D/A changes that can occur. Right there you are calling into question rather or not this exhaust makes power. I explained to you that this wasn’t the case as the d/a and track were both the same. Now you are saying you understand that it makes power but you want to know “specifically about the performance increase?” You are arguing about nothing. Seriously, does it really matter to you where the exhaust makes power? Honestly if the exhaust only makes power up top you will elect not to buy it?

[badblueRS4]

How often are you below 5500rpm in any kind of racing? Idiot

And if the stock tune limits torque until 5500rpm that can’t be controlled by the exhaust besides, like I said who fucking has the car below 5500rpm if they are legitimately racing…any kind of race

Don’t try the “you haven’t owned your RS4 as long as me” bullshit here

930 has cars that you probably dream about…

Clueless…. If someone pulls up to you on the highway and you’re cruising in 6th gear, are you below 5500rpm? IDIOT Who said anything about the exhaust controlling the car at 5500 rpm? LMAO you could have saved these keyboard strokes… It’s about finding out where the peak power is….

[sakimano]

Nu

Not sure what’s next. Tune, and LW parts would make a lot of sense. I’m in no rush though to be honest, so I will bide my time. I would love to throw down a 12.4 @ 111.X first before changing anything. Maybe if it’s cold enough at some point here this spring or next fall.

Saki,

As much as you and I go back and forth and talk trash and name calling, at the end of the day, I respect your brain and reasoning as a fellow Engineer such as myself. I’m sure you remember us having this debate back on Audiworld before you got banned about shift points. If I recall, you were adamant about needing to shift at around 7500 rpm, because from your study of our cars DYNO, the car didn’t make any additional power after 7500 rpm, so it was pretty useless to stay in any gear after that point. So how is it that, in this thread you criticize us for wanting to see a DYNO for the exhaust performance? You also reference that the jhm tune and exhaust net you 35whp or so (from a DYNO).

Secondly, right here in this quote you admit that, Dragstrip times are very dependent on ambient conditions. You know yourself, if its really cold and dry out, you can run a better time and have a “timeslip” to show off and put on your refrigerator? Clearly, both the dragstrip and dyno test can be skewed in either direction based on ambient conditions. You also know, that if you took your same car, and driver down here to HOTlanta, and ran at a dragstrip that is 1300 ft above sea level your times would be in the 13 sec range. So again, extremely dependent on ambient conditions, just like a dyno.

I respect your dedication to the dragstrip and data collection, so why can’t you do the same for us in this regard? By the way, I am at the point of shopping for exhausts, as I’m sure plenty that read online forums are doing the same (even if they don’t post). So why not share all of this information before making a $3-4k investment? Being able to justify this purchase by saying “this guy in Toronto shaved .2 secs off his 1/4 mile” is a little short sided.

Bad

1. If you go back to That AW thread, I determined my shift points using
   A. Advice from people who know the car
   B. Logs of my car
   C. Pbox testing various shift points
   D. Dragstrip testing vsrious shift points

I never dynod my car. You may be referring to a vagcom power log that I did and referenced. You may not know this but our ecu measures torque, and you can create a dyno of sorts for yourself.

I don’t hate the dyno. I am just of the opinion that it shouldn’t be used by companies for marketing. Its a really easily manipulable standard and none of us should accept it as marketing. Want to dyno your own car? Go nuts. Simple.

JHM decided early on… Years ago…that they would show performance rather than dyno charts. Make no mistake…they dyno their cars. They have probably 100 charts at 034 in the history on the old land and sea dynomite. They dynod incredible numbers too. They just never showed them. Someone senior from JHM will start a thread shortly explaining this philosophy. Maybe then you guys will stop attacking Jake (and JHM customers)

2. I didn’t go to the strip to sell exhausts for jhm. I went for fun and to see how much acceleration jhm exhaust gained me. A JHM employee liked the video, read my thread here, and shared it on az. At first that was praised. Then attacked. By the same people in zmon’s split personality case.

Gaining 2 tenths and 2 mph best vs best approximates 20 hp 20 tq. Somewhere around there. I don’t care. I don’t boast about my car at s4 meets like s4 saloon do i dont need to know a theoretical power number. I will tell you what the stock rated horsepower is if we meet in person and tell you i have added exhaust,but thats it. Vtknight knows this first hand. We met Saturday, and the only power I told him was the stock power. I met a guy with an rs4 who told me he made 500hp because of his Miller downpipes, exhaust and giac tune. I just smiled. This is like s4_saloon. If I raced the guy today I would beat him. Milltek does nothing. Giac does almost nothing. His dyno tells one story. My performance tells another. Which would you rather buy?

3. You guys can love the road course all day. Nobody has a problem with that. Half the people in this thread are road course regulars. Just don’t fucking troll and try to ruin a company because you hold spite against some of its customers.

[badblueRS4]

The record pass was set on April 7, 2012 at 3ish at Cayuga Raceway. The D/A at that time was 498. The pass with the JHM exhaust was run on April 14, 2014 at 12ish at Cayuga Raceway. The D/A at that time was also 498. The exact same! Both runs happened at the exact same track with the exact same D/A. You seriously can not get a better example of an upgrade making power then what Saki has provided. So, yes, he can say that he installed an exhaust and shaved .2 seconds off his time because it honestly happened. Remember that dyno charts are nothing more then pretty graphs. They can easily be skewed and compromised. In this case there is no arguing with the fact that this exhaust made power.

930chas….we are past that point of knowing it made power. You seem to keep bringing that up. No one is questioning that. We are asking to see where on the power band and how much power it made. I know you haven’t had your car for long, so maybe that’s why you don’t get the question. Or maybe you just don’t think the way we do. That’s cool.

For example, without a modified tune, the stock tune limits 50%power until 5500rpm, so did the exhaust provide more power after 5500 rpm? This is important to know, because when you are driving, whether its a highway pull, dragstrip, road course or stoplight, you want to know where your strongest power is. Should you stay in a lower gear, or higher gear. etc. Also, once a tune is added to the exhaust, by looking at the dyno, we could decipher if more peak power was reached before 5500rpm etc. I think you get the point now. We know it made power, we want to know more specifically about the performance increase.

You are going round and round in circles brother and honestly not making much sense. In your previous post, you state that this improvement can not be solely based on the exhaust upgrade due to elevation or D/A changes that can occur. Right there you are calling into question rather or not this exhaust makes power. I explained to you that this wasn’t the case as the d/a and track were both the same. Now you are saying you understand that it makes power but you want to know “specifically about the performance increase?” You are arguing about nothing. Seriously, does it really matter to you where the exhaust makes power? Honestly if the exhaust only makes power up top you will elect not to buy it?

Absolutely WRONG!! Where did I say that the improvement can only be based on the exhaust upgrade? Let’s try this again. What I said was: AMBIENT CONDITIONS GREATLY AFFECT DRAGSTRIP TIMES!! By quoting, Saki saying he was hoping for a 12.4 when the weather was COLDER, and NO OTHER CHANGES to the car itself!!! In other WORDS let me break this down further: He can go from a 12.5 to a 12.4 with ONLY a weather change!! It’s PLAIN and SIMPLE. I did not mean that, this 12.7 to a 12.5 that he accomplished was due to weather. I KNOW THAT THE EXHAUST shaved his time down .2 secs. GET OVER THAT!!!

To answer your other question, if a person is considering a milltek or a capristo or a MTM or AWE or any other exhaust on the market, this is something that they would want to know. As we know the MTM is also 2.75 but has an H pipe, so maybe that subtle difference changes the performance. Get it NOW?

[sakimano]

I used to like the dyno until I saw the fraud that accompanies it. I was in line to buy a VF engineering supercharger kit in 2008 for my b7 S4. They showed no performance gains, but did show a dyno that lit the forum on fire. 420 whp! This was vs 265 whp stock. I was sold.

Then I got a PM from someone who warned the VF 420 whp dyno may not be legit. To me this seemed impossible that a company would perpetrate fraud, but I read on. They explained why it’s impossible for an eaton M90 supercharger to dyno that, and introduced me to eaton’s own compressor map showing cfm capabilities of the blower in the VF kit. Bottom line? Maybe 375 whp was possible on the m90 (450 crank hp based on the cfm)

So I asked VF for some performance data before I went and plonked down $6500 to be an early adopter. Crickets. I asked again and again. Crickets. Why? Then one of the beta testers ran it at the strip and went 13.0 @ 107. UHOH ! Stock 340hp(265 whp) B67 S4 runs 13.8 @ 101-102. VF only picked up 5 mph trap speed which is like 50-60 crank hp. WTF ? The beta tester shortly put the car and kit up for sale.

I abandoned the VF idea and bought JHM tune and exhaust. My best time? 12.9@107. Irony. If I had dynod I MIGHT make 295 whp/295 WTQ. No where near the 420 whp /365 WTQ that VF claimed. But I was faster. This VF scam was repeated by PES. The B67 forum didn’t fall for it though for the most part. Some got conned out of their thousands unfortunately. Some, like me, we’re saved by not trusting a dyno sheet.

[930chas]

The record pass was set on April 7, 2012 at 3ish at Cayuga Raceway. The D/A at that time was 498. The pass with the JHM exhaust was run on April 14, 2014 at 12ish at Cayuga Raceway. The D/A at that time was also 498. The exact same! Both runs happened at the exact same track with the exact same D/A. You seriously can not get a better example of an upgrade making power then what Saki has provided. So, yes, he can say that he installed an exhaust and shaved .2 seconds off his time because it honestly happened. Remember that dyno charts are nothing more then pretty graphs. They can easily be skewed and compromised. In this case there is no arguing with the fact that this exhaust made power.

930chas….we are past that point of knowing it made power. You seem to keep bringing that up. No one is questioning that. We are asking to see where on the power band and how much power it made. I know you haven’t had your car for long, so maybe that’s why you don’t get the question. Or maybe you just don’t think the way we do. That’s cool.

For example, without a modified tune, the stock tune limits 50%power until 5500rpm, so did the exhaust provide more power after 5500 rpm? This is important to know, because when you are driving, whether its a highway pull, dragstrip, road course or stoplight, you want to know where your strongest power is. Should you stay in a lower gear, or higher gear. etc. Also, once a tune is added to the exhaust, by looking at the dyno, we could decipher if more peak power was reached before 5500rpm etc. I think you get the point now. We know it made power, we want to know more specifically about the performance increase.

You are going round and round in circles brother and honestly not making much sense. In your previous post, you state that this improvement can not be solely based on the exhaust upgrade due to elevation or D/A changes that can occur. Right there you are calling into question rather or not this exhaust makes power. I explained to you that this wasn’t the case as the d/a and track were both the same. Now you are saying you understand that it makes power but you want to know “specifically about the performance increase?” You are arguing about nothing. Seriously, does it really matter to you where the exhaust makes power? Honestly if the exhaust only makes power up top you will elect not to buy it?

Absolutely WRONG!! Where did I say that the improvement can only be based on the exhaust upgrade? Let’s try this again. What I said was: AMBIENT CONDITIONS GREATLY AFFECT DRAGSTRIP TIMES!! By quoting, Saki saying he was hoping for a 12.4 when the weather was COLDER, and NO OTHER CHANGES to the car itself!!! In other WORDS let me break this down further: He can go from a 12.5 to a 12.4 with ONLY a weather change!! It’s PLAIN and SIMPLE. I did not mean that, this 12.7 to a 12.5 that he accomplished was due to weather. I KNOW THAT THE EXHAUST shaved his time down .2 secs. GET OVER THAT!!!

To answer your other question, if a person is considering a milltek or a capristo or a MTM or AWE or any other exhaust on the market, this is something that they would want to know. As we know the MTM is also 2.75 but has an H pipe, so maybe that subtle difference changes the performance. Get it NOW?

So why even bring up ambient conditions then if you knew that his improvement wasn’t weather based?

[badblueRS4]

Nu

Not sure what’s next. Tune, and LW parts would make a lot of sense. I’m in no rush though to be honest, so I will bide my time. I would love to throw down a 12.4 @ 111.X first before changing anything. Maybe if it’s cold enough at some point here this spring or next fall.

Saki,

As much as you and I go back and forth and talk trash and name calling, at the end of the day, I respect your brain and reasoning as a fellow Engineer such as myself. I’m sure you remember us having this debate back on Audiworld before you got banned about shift points. If I recall, you were adamant about needing to shift at around 7500 rpm, because from your study of our cars DYNO, the car didn’t make any additional power after 7500 rpm, so it was pretty useless to stay in any gear after that point. So how is it that, in this thread you criticize us for wanting to see a DYNO for the exhaust performance? You also reference that the jhm tune and exhaust net you 35whp or so (from a DYNO).

Secondly, right here in this quote you admit that, Dragstrip times are very dependent on ambient conditions. You know yourself, if its really cold and dry out, you can run a better time and have a “timeslip” to show off and put on your refrigerator? Clearly, both the dragstrip and dyno test can be skewed in either direction based on ambient conditions. You also know, that if you took your same car, and driver down here to HOTlanta, and ran at a dragstrip that is 1300 ft above sea level your times would be in the 13 sec range. So again, extremely dependent on ambient conditions, just like a dyno.

I respect your dedication to the dragstrip and data collection, so why can’t you do the same for us in this regard? By the way, I am at the point of shopping for exhausts, as I’m sure plenty that read online forums are doing the same (even if they don’t post). So why not share all of this information before making a $3-4k investment? Being able to justify this purchase by saying “this guy in Toronto shaved .2 secs off his 1/4 mile” is a little short sided.

Bad

1. If you go back to That AW thread, I determined my shift points using
   A. Advice from people who know the car
   B. Logs of my car
   C. Pbox testing various shift points
   D. Dragstrip testing vsrious shift points

I never dynod my car. You may be referring to a vagcom power log that I did and referenced. You may not know this but our ecu measures torque, and you can create a dyno of sorts for yourself.

I don’t hate the dyno. I am just of the opinion that it shouldn’t be used by companies for marketing. Its a really easily manipulable standard and none of us should accept it as marketing. Want to dyno your own car? Go nuts. Simple.

JHM decided early on… Years ago…that they would show performance rather than dyno charts. Make no mistake…they dyno their cars. They have probably 100 charts at 034 in the history on the old land and sea dynomite. They dynod incredible numbers too. They just never showed them. Someone senior from JHM will start a thread shortly explaining this philosophy. Maybe then you guys will stop attacking Jake (and JHM customers)

2. I didn’t go to the strip to sell exhausts for jhm. I went for fun and to see how much acceleration jhm exhaust gained me.
   Gaining 2 tenths and 2 mph best vs best approximates 20 hp 20 tq. Somewhere around there. I don’t care. I don’t boast about my car at s4 meets like s4 saloon do i dont need to know a theoretical power number. I will tell you what the stock rated horsepower is if we meet in person and tell you i have added exhaust,but thats it. Vtknight knows this first hand. We met Saturday, and the only power I told him was the stock power.

3. You guys can love the road course all day. Nobody has a problem with that. Half the people in this thread are road course regulars. Just don’t fucking troll and try to ruin a company because you hold spite against some of its customers.

Saki,

Thank you. That is a very fair explanation. All I came on here for, was to clear up this misconception of us bashing JHM or bashing JHM customers. Not at all my intention. I think it is great that we have intelligent buyers such as yourself, and a company like JHM, and APR and others, so that we can buy the best products for our cars and push the envelope even further. I also think its great that we can have intelligent discussions such as this, without all the name calling and bashing. That does nothing for our community.

[euroswagr]

Clueless…. If someone pulls up to you on the highway and you’re cruising in 6th gear, are you below 5500rpm? IDIOT Who said anything about the exhaust controlling the car at 5500 rpm? LMAO you could have saved these keyboard strokes… It’s about finding out where the peak power is….

Your so fucking dense man, if someone pulls up to you and you try to race them in 6th gear…your an idiot. You downshift and probably start the race well over 5500rpms.

It isn’t about peak power you fool, there will be gain had across all RPMs

Why would you care if you have +20whp @7500 rpm in 4th gear? Are you going to race everyone only at that rpm and gear?

I will save key strokes because I’d rather argue with a rock. What kind of engineer are you? The kind that drives a train?

[Mistro]

BadBlue, the threads here and on AZ were just information posts regarding data about the performance of the JHM exhaust. Based on the results, there are definitely improvements to be seen (I think we all agree on this)

There is no point asking why saki, a customer, didn’t do a before/after dyno because he didn’t and most likely won’t. He gathered some data, and decided to share. If someone decides to bake you a cake you wouldn’t ask them why they didn’t also bake you cookies.

You guys then asked why JHM doesn’t provide one with their products, and reasons were provided (many times). You guys suggested they should start providing dyno charts, and they explained again why they don’t and won’t start.

I’m not really sure what’s left to debate over about this in this thread about Saki’s 1/4 mile data. If you guys hoping that with your convincing, JHM will reply and say “yes you guys are right, we’ll provide some graphs with all our products”, I wouldn’t hold my breath.

This is why it seems as though they are just attempts to evoke a reaction. Over on the AZ thread, it was pretty evident the posts were just to provoke a reaction as zmon made pretty clear. Please don’t bring that shit over here (saying this in general, not particularly to you).

Saki mentioned earlier in this thread that someone from JHM will start a topic about why JHM doesn’t present dyno data to sell their products. If you want to discuss the merits and downfalls of a dyno, perhaps that would be a good place too.

[badblueRS4]

I used to like the dyno until I saw the fraud that accompanies it. I was in line to buy a VF engineering supercharger kit in 2008 for my b7 S4. They showed no performance gains, but did show a dyno that lit the forum on fire. 420 whp! This was vs 265 whp stock. I was sold.

Then I got a PM from someone who warned the VF 420 whp dyno may not be legit. To me this seemed impossible that a company would perpetrate fraud, but I read on. They explained why it’s impossible for an eaton M90 supercharger to dyno that, and introduced me to eaton’s own compressor map showing cfm capabilities of the blower in the VF kit. Bottom line? Maybe 375 whp was possible on the m90 (450 crank hp based on the cfm)

So I asked VF for some performance data before I went and plonked down $6500 to be an early adopter. Crickets. I asked again and again. Crickets. Why? Then one of the beta testers ran it at the strip and went 13.0 @ 107. UHOH ! Stock 340hp(265 whp) B67 S4 runs 13.8 @ 101-102. VF only picked up 5 mph trap speed which is like 50-60 crank hp. WTF ? The beta tester shortly put the car and kit up for sale.

I abandoned the VF idea and bought JHM tune and exhaust. My best time? 12.9@107. Irony. If I had dynod I MIGHT make 295 whp/295 WTQ. No where near the 420 whp /365 WTQ that VF claimed. But I was faster. This VF scam was repeated by PES. The B67 forum didn’t fall for it though for the most part. Some got conned out of their thousands unfortunately. Some, like me, we’re saved by not trusting a dyno sheet.

Also VERY good background and info! I myself never new that about your past or the VF situation. I agree the dyno can be skewed like I said earlier. However, if you control most of the variables (same dyno, same weather, same fans, same ambient conditions, same engine temperature etc) it can be useful. For example, the shop I go to here in Atlanta is spending $50k on a AWD dyno for the purposes of allowing customers to calculate right on the spot their performance from their tuning. So I for one, will be getting a baseline dyno at the same time my exhaust is installed, so therefore I can drive away knowing that, I drove in with the stock exhaust netting x whp, and drove away with a aftermarket exhaust netting y whp. Maybe that just helps me balance my checkbook better or justify it to my wife LOL

[badblueRS4]

knew*

[sakimano]

The record pass was set on April 7, 2012 at 3ish at Cayuga Raceway. The D/A at that time was 498. The pass with the JHM exhaust was run on April 14, 2014 at 12ish at Cayuga Raceway. The D/A at that time was also 498. The exact same! Both runs happened at the exact same track with the exact same D/A. You seriously can not get a better example of an upgrade making power then what Saki has provided. So, yes, he can say that he installed an exhaust and shaved .2 seconds off his time because it honestly happened. Remember that dyno charts are nothing more then pretty graphs. They can easily be skewed and compromised. In this case there is no arguing with the fact that this exhaust made power.

All good points. Although the stock record was actually April 6. Timeslip had the wrong date. They used to always be 1 day ahead. You’ll note that the thread I started about it was started on April 6 2012.

DA was actually 281 on the 12.75 pass.

[badblueRS4]

The record pass was set on April 7, 2012 at 3ish at Cayuga Raceway. The D/A at that time was 498. The pass with the JHM exhaust was run on April 14, 2014 at 12ish at Cayuga Raceway. The D/A at that time was also 498. The exact same! Both runs happened at the exact same track with the exact same D/A. You seriously can not get a better example of an upgrade making power then what Saki has provided. So, yes, he can say that he installed an exhaust and shaved .2 seconds off his time because it honestly happened. Remember that dyno charts are nothing more then pretty graphs. They can easily be skewed and compromised. In this case there is no arguing with the fact that this exhaust made power.

All good points. Although the stock record was actually April 6. Timeslip had the wrong date. They used to always be 1 day ahead. You’ll note that the thread I started about it was started on April 6 2012.

DA was actually 281 on the 12.75 pass.

I also did know that the DA was different on each of those runs, as you said that here and was also expressed on AZ by JAke. But I appreciate you being honest and clearing that up. I didn’t bother to correct 930chas, because it didn’t matter anyway, since you were still in worse conditions the last time around and still had a faster time and speed so clearly the exhaust was an improvement.

[sakimano]

The record pass was set on April 7, 2012 at 3ish at Cayuga Raceway. The D/A at that time was 498. The pass with the JHM exhaust was run on April 14, 2014 at 12ish at Cayuga Raceway. The D/A at that time was also 498. The exact same! Both runs happened at the exact same track with the exact same D/A. You seriously can not get a better example of an upgrade making power then what Saki has provided. So, yes, he can say that he installed an exhaust and shaved .2 seconds off his time because it honestly happened. Remember that dyno charts are nothing more then pretty graphs. They can easily be skewed and compromised. In this case there is no arguing with the fact that this exhaust made power.

930chas….we are past that point of knowing it made power. You seem to keep bringing that up. No one is questioning that. We are asking to see where on the power band and how much power it made. I know you haven’t had your car for long, so maybe that’s why you don’t get the question. Or maybe you just don’t think the way we do. That’s cool.

For example, without a modified tune, the stock tune limits 50%power until 5500rpm, so did the exhaust provide more power after 5500 rpm? This is important to know, because when you are driving, whether its a highway pull, dragstrip, road course or stoplight, you want to know where your strongest power is. Should you stay in a lower gear, or higher gear. etc. Also, once a tune is added to the exhaust, by looking at the dyno, we could decipher if more peak power was reached before 5500rpm etc. I think you get the point now. We know it made power, we want to know more specifically about the performance increase.

To that end do you really want to see a dyno for a car that is being artificially limited below 5600 rpm?

That’s what everyone is asking for… A stock tune + JHM exhaust dyno. Why? The first 2/3 of the curve are artificially limited by the ecu.

A bunch of people on quatrofail said the JHM tune does very little . Absurd. But let’s pretend.

So take a look at mistro’s before after dyno . Before stock. After, tune, JHM full exhaust. He gained 38 whp and I don’t know how much torque. A lot. He dynod stock and molded when it was 80 degrees, so he would not have the artificially limited throttle (you may not know this but in hot temps the limiter is removed. In moderate temps it is only about a 72% limit.

[badblueRS4]

The record pass was set on April 7, 2012 at 3ish at Cayuga Raceway. The D/A at that time was 498. The pass with the JHM exhaust was run on April 14, 2014 at 12ish at Cayuga Raceway. The D/A at that time was also 498. The exact same! Both runs happened at the exact same track with the exact same D/A. You seriously can not get a better example of an upgrade making power then what Saki has provided. So, yes, he can say that he installed an exhaust and shaved .2 seconds off his time because it honestly happened. Remember that dyno charts are nothing more then pretty graphs. They can easily be skewed and compromised. In this case there is no arguing with the fact that this exhaust made power.

930chas….we are past that point of knowing it made power. You seem to keep bringing that up. No one is questioning that. We are asking to see where on the power band and how much power it made. I know you haven’t had your car for long, so maybe that’s why you don’t get the question. Or maybe you just don’t think the way we do. That’s cool.

For example, without a modified tune, the stock tune limits 50%power until 5500rpm, so did the exhaust provide more power after 5500 rpm? This is important to know, because when you are driving, whether its a highway pull, dragstrip, road course or stoplight, you want to know where your strongest power is. Should you stay in a lower gear, or higher gear. etc. Also, once a tune is added to the exhaust, by looking at the dyno, we could decipher if more peak power was reached before 5500rpm etc. I think you get the point now. We know it made power, we want to know more specifically about the performance increase.

To that end do you really want to see a dyno for a car that is being artificially limited below 5600 rpm?

That’s what everyone is asking for… A stock tune + JHM exhaust dyno. Why? The first 2/3 of the curve are artificially limited by the ecu.

A bunch of people on quatrofail said the JHM tune does very little . Absurd. But let’s pretend.

So take a look at mistro’s before after dyno . Before stock. After, tune, JHM full exhaust. He gained 38 whp and I don’t know how much torque. A lot. He dynod stock and molded when it was 80 degrees, so he would not have the artificially limited throttle (you may not know this but in hot temps the limiter is removed. In moderate temps it is only about a 72% limit.

Yes, honestly, I would love to see the dyno of each of the mods. For example

1. Baseline (stock)
2. Adding exhaust
3. Adding Tune (or move 2 to 3)

I would love to see how each mod improves the performance, and when they start to work together. For example, we know that the tune removes the torque limiter, but does it also start to optimize flow with the larger exhaust and x pipe? Does it take time to adapt? Do you have to wait 2 weeks and come back and dyno again once the car has adapted to the new flow? I think all these things are important to know for all of us.

[sakimano]

Saki,

Thank you. That is a very fair explanation. All I came on here for, was to clear up this misconception of us bashing JHM or bashing JHM customers. Not at all my intention. I think it is great that we have intelligent buyers such as yourself, and a company like JHM, and APR and others, so that we can buy the best products for our cars and push the envelope even further. I also think its great that we can have intelligent discussions such as this, without all the name calling and bashing. That does nothing for our community.

You’re welcome
Make no mistake though most of this is rooted in JHM and JHM customer bashing. Let’s not pretend. Not from you… You stayed out of the bs on az for the most part. Referring to the others.

As for the dyno JHM won’t show it. You will have to buy based on other metrics. If you want me to do any type of testing let me know and I will. I have dozens of logs and pbox and 1/4 mile slips you are welcome to. Everyone is.

As for my exhaust I can tell you it makes power and torque all the way through the Rev range. Every improved exhaust on a v8 will make power across the range thanks to improved volumetric efficiency. It’s not a big turbo on a 4 banger that will deliver peaky improvements in an isolated part of the Rev range. It’s an exhaust that improves VE of the entire system. It HAS to make across the board changes.

I think your concerns are unwarranted, and if you do a little thinking about that last paragraph you’ll see what I mean.

Besides… When has JHM delivered a 4.2 product that delivered sketchy peaky gains? They understand the calculation of work better than any of the other companies because they sell on performance, not Dyno numbers. They have to deliver! Trust me when I say they tune for curve, not peak. Dyno tuning companies…they tune for peak. Not work. Why? Because they are selling you a Dyno sheet and peak gains are the headline.

Look at s4_saloon and his hypocritical example. He wants to be able to articulate the power his car makes. But I thought he cares about the curve and not peak gains? Did he mean he needs a Dyno sheet to calculate WORK? So that’s what he will do at cars and coffee? No, he will tell them peak hp because that’s what the Dyno seller sells you.